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The two types who will be thrown in the Lake of Fire

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Revelation 21. 8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Recenty I have been focussing on this scripture which the Apostle John wrote. The two words I have underlined cause me to ask a few questions:-

  • Those who reject Jesus
  • Those who lack faith.
  • All Liars.
In Hebrews 11.6 Without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. Does this suggest that those who outright reject Christ and those of us who are Christians and do not have faith are in the same boat. From what I understand if you doubt you do not believe. I believe that faith is critical to our Christian walk. If we doubt God we are in essence saying he is a liar and cannot perform the promises he has made. When I read the journey of Israel, their doubting caused real problems for them.

I have often wondered why there is the ALL concerning Liars.
What if it read and liars... would there be a difference... Just a thought.
Hope this can generate some discussion. As the end draws near our Christianity will be tested severely and therefore we must have faith and continually trust God even when things don't make sense to us.
 
.
My dear Sister abide in Christ, it is wonderful to see you here. I'll quote Psa 116:11 "I said in my haste, All men are liars" and suggest that unless we are in Christ with His righteousness projected upon us we are without hope. God looks at us His children having eternal life right now in Christ. if we're going to inherit eternal life there are many qualifications as we read in:
Mar 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Mar 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
BUT:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
1 Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up (Spiritually) together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me (That's you and me) shall come to me (We did); and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (That's the promise of our Savior). In case you can't tell, I believe once saved we belong to God forever. :)
Love you sister in Jesus' name. :wave2
 
so...the genuinely Born Again need not worry about hell?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, (Nothing) shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Brother Christ_empowered, as I wrote in a pamphlet I wrote titled SECURITY OF THE BELIEVER

Once I'm saved or born of God, can I still go to hell if I mess up? Consider the following.

John 6.44. "No man can come to me (Jesus), except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 10:27-29. "My sheep (Believers in Christ) hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: (28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." (Notice here that we've been given to Jesus by the Father)

John 6:37-40. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (Jesus won't cast us out regardless of our failures) (38) For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. (39) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. (40) And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Eph. 4:30. "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

In the above verses, we have been given eternal life (That is God's own life without beginning or end from the moment we're born again), and Jesus says He will not let any one take us out of his hand. The Father will not let anyone take you out of His hand, and the Holy Spirit has sealed us until the day of redemption. How much more secure can we be than God telling us in His word that He is totally for us?

1 John 3:9. “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (Practice) sin; for his seed (Jesus) remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (Our new Christ nature can't sin.)

Romans 4:7-8. "Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. (8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."

1 John 5:1 (Repeated). "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him."
1 John 5:4. "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."
1 John 5:5. "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"


1 John 5:18. "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God (Jesus) keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

Revelations 3:5. "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

Philippians 4:3. "And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellow labourers, whose names are in the book of life." (This is to show that we are in the book of life in present tense).

Romans 10:13-14. "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?"

1 John 5:11-13. "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. (12) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. (13) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

John. 6:28. "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (29) "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

Hebrews 13:5. "Let your conversation (Manner of life) be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."

Colossians 3:3-4. "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. (4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory."

1 Corinthians 6:19-20. "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? (20) For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.”

Isaiah 49:14-16. "But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me. (15) Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee. (16) Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me." Dear reader, you can believe and trust God because He cannot lie (Titus 1:2). He gave Jesus' life for us and promises He won't fail us. In (Luke 23:42-43) all that the thief next to Jesus on the cross said was; "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. (43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." That thief didn't repent, obey any laws, become baptized, and get filled with the Holy Spirit, or attend church to be with Jesus in paradise! His statement that Jesus was going to His kingdom was acknowledging the fact he believed that Jesus was the Christ; he was saved at that moment. On this booklet's cover, there are only two crosses shown: Jesus' cross where He gave Himself for me, and the believing thief's cross. Like the believing thief, "I am crucified with Christ and it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me" (Galatians 2:20). By accepting Jesus as my savior, my old man or Adamic nature was crucified with Christ (Romans 6:6-10), died with Him that day and I am free from sin and death. The other thief's suffering on his cross that isn't shown wasn't the end of his trouble, and is in a place you don't want to be. Read (Luke 16:19-31).

If you haven't accepted Jesus as your savior yet, you can be saved this very moment by asking Jesus into your life. Please don't put it off any longer, because you aren’t guaranteed one more moment of life. (John 3:15-18) says "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. (16) For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." This doesn't say conditional life as many try to persuade you, but guarantees that you have everlasting life. (17) "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

To repeat (Romans 10:9 & Isaiah 1:18), "That if you shalt say with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and shall believe in your heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, you shalt be saved." and "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."

It's time for you to make the most important decision of your life! (2 Corinthians 6:2. RSV). God says, "At the acceptable time I have listened to you, and helped you on the day of salvation. Behold, now is the acceptable time; behold, now is the day of salvation." Today is the day for you to become saved! Don't use the excuse of not accepting Christ because of some hypocritical Christian you've seen (Jesus isn't finished with them yet), I don't have the time right now, my church doesn't teach that, God is a God of love and wouldn't put anyone in hell, is there really a God (Nature itself teaches you there is), and what about the big bang theory and evolution? You may allow other similar reasoning to be the argument you present to God for not taking Christ as your savior when he is available, but you'll be the loser because Jesus is the only sacrifice and means of going to heaven given to man. (Acts 4:12) "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Jesus further says in (John 14:6) "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
 
as always...thanks, Eugene. Keep in mind; I went to a year long Teen Challenge program, so I've got a lot of Pentecostal ideas floating around. They weren't big on OSAS :-( . I don't know what that's about...
 
as always...thanks, Eugene. Keep in mind; I went to a year long Teen Challenge program, so I've got a lot of Pentecostal ideas floating around. They weren't big on OSAS :-( . I don't know what that's about...
Good enough. I read that God receives you too even if you don't eat swine. :)
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
 
Revelation 21. 8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Recenty I have been focussing on this scripture which the Apostle John wrote. The two words I have underlined cause me to ask a few questions:-

  • Those who reject Jesus
  • Those who lack faith.
  • All Liars.
In Hebrews 11.6 Without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. Does this suggest that those who outright reject Christ and those of us who are Christians and do not have faith are in the same boat. From what I understand if you doubt you do not believe. I believe that faith is critical to our Christian walk. If we doubt God we are in essence saying he is a liar and cannot perform the promises he has made. When I read the journey of Israel, their doubting caused real problems for them.

I have often wondered why there is the ALL concerning Liars.
What if it read and liars... would there be a difference... Just a thought.
Hope this can generate some discussion. As the end draws near our Christianity will be tested severely and therefore we must have faith and continually trust God even when things don't make sense to us.
I think it important to distinguish between a lack of faith for God's daily provision, and a lack of faith in God's provision for the forgiveness of sin. The former will separate you from his manifest blessings and goodness, while the latter will separate you from his salvation altogether.
 
so...the genuinely Born Again need not worry about hell?
That is entirely correct. That's why we need to stay born again by virtue of God's indwelling Spirit. We maintain the presence and seal of the Holy Spirit (and being a new person as a result) the same way we got it in the first place--by trusting in Christ for the forgiveness of sins. As long as we are doing that we have no worry whatsoever of the fires of hell. The deception, of course, is thinking that we can decide to go back to our old lives and be trusting in the blood of Christ while we do that, not knowing that to willfully go back to your old life (lying, cheating, etc.) is in essence a departure from faith in Christ.
 
to willfully go back to your old life (lying, cheating, etc.) is in essence a departure from faith in Christ.
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Rom 13:2 huh? Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

You go back to your old life of breaking even one speed limit? Cheating the system showing a departure from faith? Oh my. Did you willfully speed? You say you accidently did it twice since you received Christ? Oh the humanity. Well Brother Jethro Bodine, I read that God has received you also; just see to it you never break any more rules from civil authorities God put over you. :nono
 
but...would the genuinely born again fall away to that extent?
Ultimately, we will only know at the resurrection.
But to think that genuinely born again people never fall from their faith is absolutely contrary to observable fact. My wife is one of them. She had the gift of tongues signifying the indwelling Holy Spirit in salvation, yet she has, by her own admission, departed the faith. The question is, has she fallen to the point of no return? Will God without question mercifully bring her back to repentance? Are the warnings in the Bible of what happens to people who stop believing only theoretical warnings because all ex-believers will be brought back to their saving faith? These are the questions that need to be answered. Personally, I do not believe each and every ex-believer will without question be brought back to faith in Christ so they can be saved.
 
You go back to your old life of breaking even one speed limit? Cheating the system showing a departure from faith? Oh my. Did you willfully speed? You say you accidently did it twice since you received Christ? Oh the humanity. Well Brother Jethro Bodine, I read that God has received you also; just see to it you never break any more rules from civil authorities God put over you. :nono
You are really, really provoking me to anger right now.
You seem to be deaf to what I've told you over and over before: your sin does not separate you from your justification, especially the sin you ask God to forgive. What separates you from the justification you have received in Christ is your unbelief in the blood of Christ. When my sin becomes the manifestation of my unbelief in the blood of Christ that is when my sin separates me from salvation. Struggling with sin while clinging to the forgiveness of Christ does not end your salvation.

When I go back to my old life and start speeding because I don't care about or want or trust in the blood of Christ anymore, I'll let you know. That is when I am in line to lose my salvation. But I'm guessing you haven't heard what I said this time either and will continue to think non-OSAS means you lose your salvation every time you stumble even if you're still trusting in the blood of Christ. Betcha.
 
I have often wondered why there is the ALL concerning Liars.
But anyway, abide, the believer who lies seeks God's forgiveness for that lying and has that offense wiped from his slate. He in effect is no longer guilty of lying that he should be included in the liars who will be cast into the Lake of Fire. His faith in Christ's blood delivers him from the just wages of his sin. That's why we have to keep believing.
 
You are really, really provoking me to anger right now.
Be angry and sin not. Sorry, I couldn't restrain me on this opportunity.
to willfully go back to your old life (lying, cheating, etc.) is in essence a departure from faith in Christ.
You've got to admit that you're the one who said willfully returning to your old life of sin is in essence a departure from faith in Christ (Did you ever speed before you were in Christ?). I'm just saying I don't agree that we are justified in any manner by law keeping; even the attempt to do so is to fall from grace, and that isn't falling from salvation.
 
You've got to admit that you're the one who said willfully returning to your old life of sin is in essence a departure from faith in Christ (Did you ever speed before you were in Christ?).
Struggling with sin is hardly returning to your old life of sin.
Returning to your old life means abandoning the forgiveness you have in Christ and choosing as a lifestyle the sin he saved you from.
 
I have often wondered why there is the ALL concerning Liars.
What if it read and liars... would there be a difference... Just a thought.

No difference. And liars would still be all liars.
Hope this can generate some discussion. As the end draws near our Christianity will be tested severely and therefore we must have faith and continually trust God even when things don't make sense to us.

The "essence" of end time is our redemption. Our final transformation. Phil. 3:21. It is the "removal" of indwelling sin and evil present that we "all" currently have in our vile bodies. Romans 7:17-21. It is the putting off of weakness, corruption, dishonor. 1 Cor. 15:42-47.

We will not be standing as any of us stand, today.

We all have doubts. Fears. Why? There are adverse spiritual components involved with these doubts and fears that are "not us" as believers just as the sin that dwelt in Paul's own flesh was "no more I." The end time accounts are about the destruction of "NO MORE I."

Believers tend to gravitate toward doom and gloom with regard to "the end." It is not a time of doom for believers, even though the world may very well go entirely mad. At the end, everyone will basically SHUT UP. Every mouth will be stopped. All the world will stand before our Maker, GUILTY. And this includes US.

Romans 3:
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Has this yet happened? No. But it will. Believers take the verdict in advance. It doesn't mean the verdict changed.

A matter that always escapes readers of Revelation. Here is what kicks off the entirety of the events:

Rev. 5:
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

If you are hearing a collective confession of FAITH in Christ, you are hearing accurately. This is the "latter rain" spoken of by the Prophets. HERE is that RAIN:

Isaiah 11:9
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

And again:


Habakkuk 2:14
For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

And again Isaiah 54:8-10


And again:

Jeremiah 31:34
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

And again:

Hebrews 8:11
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

So, get on BOARD. You as a believer are HIS WITNESS, a part of spreading the knowledge of the LORD.


IF you want to understand end times, then understand this: It is the DEVIL and his messengers that all the WOE is falling upon. They are what? Yeah, ALL LIARS.


And if you really want to see "where" these clowns are, they are IN man:

Acts 26:
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.


2 Corinthians 4:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


Ephesians 2:
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:


The god of this world, Satan, his messengers, the spirit(s) of disobedience, currently own and operate the blinded flesh/minds of ALL mankind.

Gods Love, Grace and Mercy in Christ has PRE-DIVIDED US from this working. But not entirely. We have enough LIGHT of Word to "expose," to DIVIDE from their workings, but not to "destroy."

We have a two-fold witness. To witness CHRISTS forgiveness, Love, Grace and Mercy to all men. And to witness to DEVILS that they will be wiped off the face of the earth. Both of these witnesses can be laid upon any INDIVIDUAL currently. Because "no individual" exists in the scriptural discourses. None of us are currently ALL LIGHT. We all have 'works of darkness' to CAST OFF. Romans 13:12


The Destroyer of all darkness arrives in full at THEE END.


The real questions for us is this: How much of His, Christ's LIGHT, LIFE, GRACE, MERCY AND LOVE, can we ourselves STAND and BEAR and SHARE?
 
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so...the genuinely Born Again need not worry about hell?

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 1 Timothy 4:1-2

Those who depart from the faith, after being born again, to serve other "gods" [idolatry], or take the mark of the beast, or live an immoral sinful lifestyle [murdering, stealing, sexual immorality...] will have their part in the lake of fire.

6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

Overcomes is a reference to remaining faithful, or keeping the faith, steadfast to the end, which of course means "not departing from the faith.

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the worldour faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? 1 John 5:1-5

If a person who is born again, by believing that Jesus is the Christ, then later, they no longer believe, but depart from the faith, and become an atheist, how can they possibly be said to somehow still have "faith", or still "believe".


JLB
 
Revelation 21. 8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Recenty I have been focussing on this scripture which the Apostle John wrote. The two words I have underlined cause me to ask a few questions:-

  • Those who reject Jesus
  • Those who lack faith.
  • All Liars.
In Hebrews 11.6 Without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. Does this suggest that those who outright reject Christ and those of us who are Christians and do not have faith are in the same boat. From what I understand if you doubt you do not believe. I believe that faith is critical to our Christian walk. If we doubt God we are in essence saying he is a liar and cannot perform the promises he has made. When I read the journey of Israel, their doubting caused real problems for them.

I have often wondered why there is the ALL concerning Liars.
What if it read and liars... would there be a difference... Just a thought.
Hope this can generate some discussion. As the end draws near our Christianity will be tested severely and therefore we must have faith and continually trust God even when things don't make sense to us.

hello abide, dirtfarmer here

It is not "sins" that condemns a person, but unbelief. When a person believes they are "delivered from the power of darkness and have been translated into the kingdom of his dear Son." This is accomplished because the old man was crucified with Christ, been buried with Christ, and are resurrected with him and the live that we now live is not ours but it is him that lives in us(Colossian 1:13). Philippians 4:7 states, "And the peace of God which passes all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Jesus Christ." Romans 10:10 " For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

The reason that the children of Israel did not enter into God's rest was because of unbelief; (Hebrews 3:19). Not because of sins they committed. Most of the sacrifices that they offered was to restore fellowship, not to make them "children of Israel". Joshua and Caleb were the only two that came out of Egypt, that entered into the rest of God, the promised land.

Unbelief is the only sin that condemns and that is only after death find that person still in unbelief. While they are alive there is always a chance and hope that they will believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
 
Having doubt isn't the same as unbelief. God can call you forward, and although you have doubt, you can still have faith and believe in Him to step forward. If you're faith is as small as a mustard seed and you tell a mountain to move, it will move. I don't know about anyone else but I've never been able to move a mountain on command. My faith must be smaller than a mustard seed. And it's by the faith of Christ that saves. His faith. His work. No one gets to boast and say "It was my faith that saved me".
 
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