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Bible Study The Adamic Sin-Nature

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Soul man

Soul man

Member
One of the great problems of the human race is that it has never admitted that humans born into the world have an Adamic sin nature. They would like to think that the environment, the parents, the breaks one gets in life and the goodness of the individual is what determines the outcome of the life.
Along with this idea, humans that are involved in the sciences of life Like psychology, psychiatry, medicine, behavior studies, theology and so forth, all have drawn conclusions of how humans exist without any reference to the Scriptures.
In fact, after many years of my study of human beings, I have come to the conclusion that the Apostle Paul knew more about humans and what makes up a human being than anyone or anything I have studied from modern science. His brief epistles are a testimony to this. While many with great scientific knowledge might have more extensive study in certain areas, they have not learned the basic facts of humanity that Christ gave to Paul.
The most basic fact is that all humans are born with a sin nature and that nature will motivate them all the days of their life until they are born again.
Humans are involved with a distinctive genetic code. While no two humans created by God are the same, all do have one similarity, they have a sin nature. There are several places in the Scriptures that detail what is in the sin nature. One of the best is in Romans 1:28–32. Verse 28 says that all humanity who hear the gospel and do not believe are turned over to a reprobate mind. Versus 29–31 list some of the things that are in the sin nature.
This listing is the spiritual DNA of the unconverted and can be found in every human who has not excepted Christ as his life. Modern science and modern religion work diligently to correct humans by dealing with each deviant thing in the sin nature, but all to no avail.
These things are the fruit of an Adamic nature and until Adam is done away with, there is no change. Yet multitudes of humans work hard within themselves to not do these things.
Some even appear to have conquered their sin nature but all this is vain. The initial problem still exists, their original sin nature is still there. The fact is God will not allow anyone to do anything within themselves to free themselves of the Adamic sin nature because to do so would annul the crucifixion of Christ on the cross.
There were some very religious people in Paul's day who thought that being circumcised would make them more godly, Paul rebuked them on the premise that humans can do nothing within themselves to be more godly, Galatians 6:15. The sin nature was adequately dealt with at the cross and the cross is the only way to a new life in Christ.
The one inescapable fact is that no human can escape the burden and the results of the Adamic nature and no human can get free of the sin nature without being born again. Jesus said to Nicodemus, "You must be born again" to see or to enter the things of God.
 
sin nature?

Of all the christian teachings this is the most puzzling, because scripture is silent on it.
Man is basically moral, works as a social animal, forms large civilisations that successfully
function, except they fail to avoid corruption, suffering and exploitation.
And the biggest problem is whenever man meets God, they hate Him.

It got me thinking if the problem is not just a simple one of communion.
Morality relies on one absolute, the reference point is right. If the reference point is us,
then whatever selfish aim we have, it is ok. Once someone upsets us, hurts us, the desire
for revenge or appropriation grows to the point it cannot be resisted, so we sin and take, using
our feelings as justification for our actions.

No man on earth can avoid this inevitable consequence of no communion with God, because
that is our state we are born into. And the only answer to this is communion with God through
faith, at first expressed through Israel, and now through Jesus.

Some have held through church history it is impossible to walk righteously or succeed to be
pure and holy by walking in the Holy Spirit, but Paul and the apostles seem to disagree.
It is the exploration of these themes that has interested me most recently, as we seem to have
lost the language of Paul, being a pure, spotless, holy, pure, loving, righteous people called to
His name and Heaven.

Now for these words to be true, ones view on the sinful nature need to be clarified.
Over all of this hangs the heart, what defilement of us is, what a pure heart means, can we walk
like Christ, today, or is this just an ideal we are walking towards, but never actually fulfill.
 
Soul man said:
One of the great problems of the human race is that it has never admitted that humans born into the world have an Adamic sin nature. They would like to think that the environment, the parents, the breaks one gets in life and the goodness of the individual is what determines the outcome of the life.
Along with this idea, humans that are involved in the sciences of life Like psychology, psychiatry, medicine, behavior studies, theology and so forth, all have drawn conclusions of how humans exist without any reference to the Scriptures.
In fact, after many years of my study of human beings, I have come to the conclusion that the Apostle Paul knew more about humans and what makes up a human being than anyone or anything I have studied from modern science. His brief epistles are a testimony to this. While many with great scientific knowledge might have more extensive study in certain areas, they have not learned the basic facts of humanity that Christ gave to Paul.
The most basic fact is that all humans are born with a sin nature and that nature will motivate them all the days of their life until they are born again.
Humans are involved with a distinctive genetic code. While no two humans created by God are the same, all do have one similarity, they have a sin nature. There are several places in the Scriptures that detail what is in the sin nature. One of the best is in Romans 1:28–32. Verse 28 says that all humanity who hear the gospel and do not believe are turned over to a reprobate mind. Versus 29–31 list some of the things that are in the sin nature.
This listing is the spiritual DNA of the unconverted and can be found in every human who has not excepted Christ as his life. Modern science and modern religion work diligently to correct humans by dealing with each deviant thing in the sin nature, but all to no avail.
These things are the fruit of an Adamic nature and until Adam is done away with, there is no change. Yet multitudes of humans work hard within themselves to not do these things.
Some even appear to have conquered their sin nature but all this is vain. The initial problem still exists, their original sin nature is still there. The fact is God will not allow anyone to do anything within themselves to free themselves of the Adamic sin nature because to do so would annul the crucifixion of Christ on the cross.
There were some very religious people in Paul's day who thought that being circumcised would make them more godly, Paul rebuked them on the premise that humans can do nothing within themselves to be more godly, Galatians 6:15. The sin nature was adequately dealt with at the cross and the cross is the only way to a new life in Christ.ed radingfff
The one inescapable fact is that no human can escape the burden and the results of the Adamic nature and no human can get free of the sin nature without being born again. Jesus said to Nicodemus, "You must be born again" to see or to enter the things of God.
Click to expand...
A good Study, enjoyed the read and the study.
 
PeterJens said:
sin nature?

Of all the christian teachings this is the most puzzling, because scripture is silent on it.
Man is basically moral, works as a social animal, forms large civilisations that successfully
function, except they fail to avoid corruption, suffering and exploitation.
And the biggest problem is whenever man meets God, they hate Him.

It got me thinking if the problem is not just a simple one of communion.
Morality relies on one absolute, the reference point is right. If the reference point is us,
then whatever selfish aim we have, it is ok. Once someone upsets us, hurts us, the desire
for revenge or appropriation grows to the point it cannot be resisted, so we sin and take, using
our feelings as justification for our actions.

No man on earth can avoid this inevitable consequence of no communion with God, because
that is our state we are born into. And the only answer to this is communion with God through
faith, at first expressed through Israel, and now through Jesus.

Some have held through church history it is impossible to walk righteously or succeed to be
pure and holy by walking in the Holy Spirit, but Paul and the apostles seem to disagree.
It is the exploration of these themes that has interested me most recently, as we seem to have
lost the language of Paul, being a pure, spotless, holy, pure, loving, righteous people called to
His name and Heaven.

Now for these words to be true, ones view on the sinful nature need to be clarified.
Over all of this hangs the heart, what defilement of us is, what a pure heart means, can we walk
like Christ, today, or is this just an ideal we are walking towards, but never actually fulfill.
Click to expand...

hello PeterJens, dirtfarmer here

While I will agree with the principle set forth, that if we walk in the Spirit 100% of our life we can achieve incorruptibility. Where that fails to be true that we can't walk 100% of our life in the Spirit. The issue being birth, we are born in the likeness of Adam after his fall, which means that we were born with a " nature to sin" . Genesis 5 states that Adam's offspring were born in his likeness and after his image, not after the image and likeness of God. This was after he had disobeyed in the garden and was expelled from the garden to protect the way of the tree of life.

It is my belief that Adam was created dying physically. The reason is because we are told, "flesh and blood cannot inherit incorruptibility or the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 15:50). Also God put flaming swords to guard the way of the tree of life. If Adam had been created to not die physically, then why the tree of life for eternal life.
 
dirtfarmer said:
hello PeterJens, dirtfarmer here

While I will agree with the principle set forth, that if we walk in the Spirit 100% of our life we can achieve incorruptibility. Where that fails to be true that we can't walk 100% of our life in the Spirit. The issue being birth, we are born in the likeness of Adam after his fall, which means that we were born with a " nature to sin" . Genesis 5 states that Adam's offspring were born in his likeness and after his image, not after the image and likeness of God. This was after he had disobeyed in the garden and was expelled from the garden to protect the way of the tree of life.

It is my belief that Adam was created dying physically. The reason is because we are told, "flesh and blood cannot inherit incorruptibility or the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 15:50). Also God put flaming swords to guard the way of the tree of life. If Adam had been created to not die physically, then why the tree of life for eternal life.
Click to expand...
DirtFarmer,
I disagree with you about Adam because when God created Adam, God said it was good and that means there was no sin before Eve enticed him into eating of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. Before that they were perfect but here is the cliff hanger that I see, God is everywhere at the same time and Time means nothing to Him because He created the Space/Time Continuum for our benefit but Adam was the perfect companion for God to walk an to fellowship with because he had been created perfect and never had to die. And then there is the truth that God did write the Book of Life with every name of who would take Jesus for their Savoir because time means nothing to Him.

As perfect a he was,God knew he would betray Him and choose the fantastic naked woman he had taken to as soon as God had created her. It so involved that it can make your head hurt but that is our our God, complex, but we have eternity to work on figuring Him out.
 
I liked the presentation of Soul man concerning original sin. Quite interesting. I see a slight flaw in the opening statement....
Soul man said:
One of the great problems of the human race is that it has never admitted that humans born into the world have an Adamic sin nature.
Click to expand...
....

I don't see, out of knowledge attained by being a born again new creature in Christ Jesus, that the human race is even aware of a sin nature. Personally, I believe that the human race is reluctant to believe that he/she is lost and needs Christ Jesus to receive new life. Salvation thru Christ Jesus, is what the human race is ignorant of and the Gospel.
 
I dont really believe man is inherently evil. I think we are born with the knowledge of God, the knowledge of Good and Evil and have a choice.

Its wierd because a child is classed as innocent to Christ, yet a baby and child will still take something that doesn't belonged to them without asking to borrow it first, so under the Law of God that is technically thief.

What about 'until the child is old enough to learn right from wrong' bible verse.

Everything must go on the conscience. Guilty or Clean conscience because everyone inherits the knowledge of good and evil.
 
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th1b.taylor said:
DirtFarmer,
I disagree with you about Adam because when God created Adam, God said it was good and that means there was no sin before Eve enticed him into eating of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. Before that they were perfect but here is the cliff hanger that I see, God is everywhere at the same time and Time means nothing to Him because He created the Space/Time Continuum for our benefit but Adam was the perfect companion for God to walk an to fellowship with because he had been created perfect and never had to die. And then there is the truth that God did write the Book of Life with every name of who would take Jesus for their Savoir because time means nothing to Him.

As perfect a he was,God knew he would betray Him and choose the fantastic naked woman he had taken to as soon as God had created her. It so involved that it can make your head hurt but that is our our God, complex, but we have eternity to work on figuring Him out.
Click to expand...

hello th1b.taylor, dirtfarmer here

I don't agree that there was no sin before Eve. Even though the devil appeared as the serpent and he was sinful, Adam was the "god" of the earth and he had dominion over the earth. He was created in the image and likeness of God(plural). God said in Genesis 1:26, "And let them(plural) have dominion. Lucifer had already rebelled against God, therefore there was sin in heaven, but not on earth.

In verse 27 it is stated " male and female created he them." Man has an X chromosome and a Y chromosome, therefore created both male and female. Woman(Eve) did not a Y chromosome, she had 2 X chromosomes. She was created female only.

Adam and Eve were created innocent. They had no knowledge of evil. They learned that when they ate of the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil.

I understand from Revelation that there are "books" that will be opened according to chapter 20. It is my understanding that when a person is born physically their name is written in the book containing the names of those that are physically alive and at physical death their name is removed. When a person receives Christ as their savior their name is written in the Lamb's book of life and will never be removed or erased.
 
So you think when God said ' Do not eat of the tree', and Eve told the serpant 'we should not eat of the tree', Adam and Eve had no knowledge of Good and Evil?. If Eve had no knowledge of evil how did she know eating of the tree was evil, the wrong thing to do?. Until that time they were not evil but they still knew evil like God because it come through a command. So as Jesus knew evil but did not sin and was obedient.

'Do not eat of the tree'. That is knowledge of what is wrong and right through a command.

As soon as a command is given there is the knowledge of evil.
 
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kiwidan said:
So you think when God said ' Do not eat of the tree', and Eve told the serpant 'we should not eat of the tree', Adam and Eve had no knowledge of Good and Evil?. If Eve had no knowledge of evil how did she know eating of the tree was bad?

'Do not eat of the tree'. That is knowledge of what is wrong and right through a command. The law is the knowledge of what is wrong and right. The tree of knowledge, and the fruit of the tree is the laws. Mankind eats from that fruit.
Click to expand...

hello kiwidan, dirtfarmer here

Adam and Eve had no knowledge of sin until they ate of "the tree of knowledge of good and evil". Genesis 2:25 states: " And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."

Genesis 3:22 states: " And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil;" so prior to this, the eating of the fruit, man had no knowledge of good and evil. "and now, lest he put for his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever." This verse tells us that man had no discernment of good or evil, only that he was innocent, but when his eyes were open they discovered the "covering of God's light" had been removed and they realized they were naked before God.

As to the fruit of that tree, we are told that it was pleasant to the eye, good for food ,and a tree to be desire to make one wise( Genesis 3:6), but, to eat of it was to disobey God's law and that is what made it forbidden.
 
dirtfarmer said:
hello kiwidan, dirtfarmer here

Adam and Eve had no knowledge of sin until they ate of "the tree of knowledge of good and evil". Genesis 2:25 states: " And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."

Genesis 3:22 states: " And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil;" so prior to this, the eating of the fruit, man had no knowledge of good and evil. "and now, lest he put for his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever." This verse tells us that man had no discernment of good or evil, only that he was innocent, but when his eyes were open they discovered the "covering of God's light" had been removed and they realized they were naked before God.

As to the fruit of that tree, we are told that it was pleasant to the eye, good for food ,and a tree to be desire to make one wise( Genesis 3:6), but, to eat of it was to disobey God's law and that is what made it forbidden.
Click to expand...

I still dont get it because as soon as a command is given there is knowledge of evil. It doesn't nessesary mean they are evil, but the knowledge is there, they know what is wrong. Like God is not evil but knows evil.

How on earth can Eve not know what is evil if she said to the serpant 'we must not eat of the tree'?, that is knowledge of what is wrong, and what is wrong is evil. Why didn't she just eat it when the serpant questioned it if she didn't know evil, because she knew it was the wrong thing to do and violates the command and its evil.

Knowledge of good and evil can only come through a command and law. Do not steal for example. You know to steal is evil and not to steal is good. Do not eat of the tree, exact same thing, You know to eat from the tree is evil and not to eat from the tree is good.

It is a command, or, laws that come from God.

God saw that everything was good, that must include the tree of knowledge of good and evil as the law itself is not evil.
 
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kiwidan said:
I still dont get it because as soon as a command is given there is knowledge of evil. It doesn't nessesary mean they are evil, but the knowledge is there, they know what is wrong. Like God is not evil but knows evil.

How on earth can Eve not know what is evil if she said to the serpant 'we must not eat of the tree'?, that is knowledge of what is wrong, and what is wrong is evil. Why didn't she just eat it when the serpant questioned it if she didn't know evil, because she knew it was the wrong thing to do and violates the command and its evil.

Knowledge of good and evil can only come through a command and law. Do not steal for example. You know to steal is evil and not to steal is good. Do not eat of the tree, exact same thing, You know to eat from the tree is evil and not to eat from the tree is good.

It is a command, or, laws that come from God.

God saw that everything was good, that must include the tree of knowledge of good and evil as the law itself is not evil.
Click to expand...

hello kiwidan, dirtfarmer here

Eating of the fruit in and of itself was not evil. What made it sin was that God forbid it. There is liberty in knowing the Lord. Paul said that all things are lawful, but that all things are not expedient. There are things that you do that are not sinful, but, if a weaker brother thinks that something is sinful, but you know that it is not, if you do that in his presence then it is sinful because you have violated his conscience.

Genesis 2:9, " And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden the tree of knowledge of good and evil." It was only the tree of good and evil that was prohibited by God.
 
dirtfarmer said:
Eating of the fruit in and of itself was not evil. What made it sin was that God forbid it.
Click to expand...

Actually, I would say their greater sin was hiding from God for shame afterwards, and then instead of taking responsibility and confessing his transgression, he tried to pass the buck and blame the women.

Just imagine had Adam had the faith to run to the Lord instead of trying to hide from Him, and confessing to the Lord that despite of his command, he ate the fruit forbidden to him and now it has made him sick, with all the knowledge of good and evil leaving him confused and ashamed: without faith and without understanding.
 
ezrider said:
Actually, I would say their greater sin was hiding from God for shame afterwards, and then instead of taking responsibility and confessing his transgression, he tried to pass the buck and blame the women.

Just imagine had Adam had the faith to run to the Lord instead of trying to hide from Him, and confessing to the Lord that despite of his command, he ate the fruit forbidden to him and now it has made him sick, with all the knowledge of good and evil leaving him confused and ashamed: without faith and without understanding.
Click to expand...

hello ezrider, dirtfarmer here

We have to first understand why they "hid" themselves. The covering of light had been removed because of their sin and they knew that they had no covering for their sin even though they sewed fig leaves together as a covering for the nakedness. Fig leaves are a type of self-righteousness. In Genesis 3:9 when God ask, "Where art thou?", God was not asking them where they were physically in the garden, but where they were spiritually. Just as unbelievers have to understand that they are without hope unless God provides a covering for them, so God was revealing to them that their self-righteousness was useless.

Jesus said that no man can come unto him unless God draw them. So, God was revealing to them their need of proper covering, that only he could provide. No sinner has ever ran to the Lord, God has to provide a covering for sin or else judge it immediately, that is why Jesus Christ was the lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world.
 
dirtfarmer said:
There are things that you do that are not sinful, but, if a weaker brother thinks that something is sinful, but you know that it is not, if you do that in his presence then it is sinful because you have violated his conscience.
Click to expand...

That doesn't sound right either, some brothers think nearly everything is offensive and a sin. Can barely breath without it being a sin.

Did Jesus violate the conscience of people he offended?, that makes Jesus a sinner. Many were offended with Jesus and believed the things he was doing was a sin. So Jesus violated there conscience by working in the truth, so he sinned, as your point makes me believe.
 
Last edited:
dirtfarmer said:
hello th1b.taylor, dirtfarmer here

I don't agree that there was no sin before Eve. Even though the devil appeared as the serpent and he was sinful, Adam was the "god" of the earth and he had dominion over the earth. He was created in the image and likeness of God(plural). God said in Genesis 1:26, "And let them(plural) have dominion. Lucifer had already rebelled against God, therefore there was sin in heaven, but not on earth.
Click to expand...

I get the feel that this errant concept is used in formulating the the theory of evolutionary creation theory and that is never scriptural. Put aside the fact that Satan was already in the world because the clause in scripture where "a day, unto the LORD is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day" (paraphrased) blows that out of the water. That God had converted Lucifer into That Old Dragon is not time relevant because God does not work within our Time Frame because He Created our Time/Space Continuum from outside of, the Space/Time Continuum we live within. And about verse 26, God has a complete foreknowledge of what is to come, not because He as been to our future but, rather because Omnipotent, he is there, in our future as well as He is everywhere around the World, right now. We try to limit God and we must cease doing that and realize God is without limit. (Job 11: 8-18)

In verse 27 it is stated " male and female created he them." Man has an X chromosome and a Y chromosome, therefore created both male and female. Woman(Eve) did not a Y chromosome, she had 2 X chromosomes. She was created female only.
Click to expand...

Genesis 2:18 And Jehovah God saith, `Not good for the man to be alone, I do make to him an helper--as his counterpart.' 19 And Jehovah God formeth from the ground every beast of the field, and every fowl of the heavens, and bringeth in unto the man, to see what he doth call it; and whatever the man calleth a living creature, that is its name. 20 And the man calleth names to all the cattle, and to fowl of the heavens, and to every beast of the field; and to man hath not been found an helper--as his counterpart.
21 And Jehovah God causeth a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he sleepeth, and He taketh one of his ribs, and closeth up flesh in its stead. 22 And Jehovah God buildeth up the rib which He hath taken out of the man into a woman, and bringeth her in unto the man; 23 and the man saith, `Thisis the proper step! bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh!' for this it is called Woman, for from a man hath this been taken; (YLT)
I'll not contend with matter against you but you do need to take it up with God.I have used the Young's Literal Translation here because it is so concise. But you might count the layers of ribs in your chest and in your wife's chest. I've never counted but I am instructed that we have one less than they.


Adam and Eve were created innocent. They had no knowledge of evil. They learned that when they ate of the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil.
Click to expand...
Yes, and there were no guards on the garden before Adam ate of that the forbidden fruit. Satan was not in place to cause Eve to tempt Adam but there was nothing to restrain Satan from making the move that God foreknew he would commit.

I understand from Revelation that there are "books" that will be opened according to chapter 20. It is my understanding that when a person is born physically their name is written in the book containing the names of those that are physically alive and at physical death their name is remove d. When a person receives Christ as their savior their name is written in the Lamb's book of life and will never be removed or erased.
Click to expand...
I need to say this, not to be curt but to be honest, I do not believe you can support all of that statement with the scriptures. The only book that concerns me is the Book of Life. My name is written there and I contend with none other. But God finished writing it before He created the Earth and as I have explained God can do that because He is limitless! And may God bless you and yours.
 
th1b.taylor said:
I get the feel that this errant concept is used in formulating the the theory of evolutionary creation theory and that is never scriptural. Put aside the fact that Satan was already in the world because the clause in scripture where "a day, unto the LORD is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day" (paraphrased) blows that out of the water. That God had converted Lucifer into That Old Dragon is not time relevant because God does not work within our Time Frame because He Created our Time/Space Continuum from outside of, the Space/Time Continuum we live within. And about verse 26, God has a complete foreknowledge of what is to come, not because He as been to our future but, rather because Omnipotent, he is there, in our future as well as He is everywhere around the World, right now. We try to limit God and we must cease doing that and realize God is without limit. (Job 11: 8-18)



Genesis 2:18 And Jehovah God saith, `Not good for the man to be alone, I do make to him an helper--as his counterpart.' 19 And Jehovah God formeth from the ground every beast of the field, and every fowl of the heavens, and bringeth in unto the man, to see what he doth call it; and whatever the man calleth a living creature, that is its name. 20 And the man calleth names to all the cattle, and to fowl of the heavens, and to every beast of the field; and to man hath not been found an helper--as his counterpart.
21 And Jehovah God causeth a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he sleepeth, and He taketh one of his ribs, and closeth up flesh in its stead. 22 And Jehovah God buildeth up the rib which He hath taken out of the man into a woman, and bringeth her in unto the man; 23 and the man saith, `Thisis the proper step! bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh!' for this it is called Woman, for from a man hath this been taken; (YLT)
I'll not contend with matter against you but you do need to take it up with God.I have used the Young's Literal Translation here because it is so concise. But you might count the layers of ribs in your chest and in your wife's chest. I've never counted but I am instructed that we have one less than they.



Yes, and there were no guards on the garden before Adam ate of that the forbidden fruit. Satan was not in place to cause Eve to tempt Adam but there was nothing to restrain Satan from making the move that God foreknew he would commit.


I need to say this, not to be curt but to be honest, I do not believe you can support all of that statement with the scriptures. The only book that concerns me is the Book of Life. My name is written there and I contend with none other. But God finished writing it before He created the Earth and as I have explained God can do that because He is limitless! And may God bless you and yours.
Click to expand...

hello th1b.taylor, dirtfarmer here

I will not contend either, but I would venture a guess that if you counted your wife's ribs she would have 12 pairs, as you have 12 pairs also. There are a few rare cases where some men have an extra rib, as there are some women that have an extra rib also. There are also cases where either sex have only 11 pairs, but in most cases we, both male and female, have 12 pair of ribs.
 
kiwidan said:
Adam might have had 11 ribs if one was taken just like he maybe was the only human being without a belly button. If everything is taken literally that is.
Click to expand...

hello kiwidan, dirtfarmer here

I believe that neither Adam nor Eve had a belly button. I also believe that Eve was built by God on the "platform" of Adam, and she was not originally formed from the dust of the earth. There had to be a deficiency in Adam, he was not complete, in that he found no companion, "soulmate", until God "built" Eve from his side. Do I understand completely the creation of Adam and Eve, most assuredly not.
I do believe that we should take it literally.
 
kiwidan said:
I dont really believe man is inherently evil.l.
Click to expand...
-
You are born with an "Adamic NATURE"......THAT IS a "sin nature"....and that is, = a propensity to want to sin and to enjoy it while knowing its wrong.
You get this from Adam and from your Dad, as all "dad's" are born (since Adam) with the same Nature that Adam died with, and passed along.
Jesus did not have an Adamic Nature, as His Dad is not involved with the genetic heritage of ADAM.
Jesus is referred to as the "Second Adam" in the sense that he is {like Adam #1 before the fall}, in Nature, tho not in personal birth.

The Law and the 10 Commandments were given to expose sin, and to expose us to our "adamic nature" ,= our "sin nature".
The Law reveals sin and reveals us as SINNERs who need to be saved from our sins and from our very "Adamaic nature".
Enter : = Jesus on a Cross.
And once we are born again, then the born again part of us, is established inside the very body that also contains the "Adamic nature - flesh" that is also us.
We are both, but God only sees us as the redeemed-born again part.
He only sees us as "the righteousness of Christ"
He only sees us through the lens of the Blood of Jesus that has made us acceptable to him, for eternity.
The reason you struggle to live holy and do right is because the saved part of you is in conflict with the "old nature".
Paul wrote about this when he was describing...."that i want to do i do not, and that i want not to do, that i do" ect.
 
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