stovebolts
Member
Interesting. Can you explain?
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stovebolts
Member
Interesting, and I can't say I can speak for anything you've said other than purgetory may be closer related to Gehenna.
jasonc
Member
have you read where it says that Lucifer tried to be God? or that in Revelation Satan is judged for being in rebellion and in his fall took one third of the angels with him?
Ezekiel 28, my mistake and Isiah 14
jasonc
Member
in chasdidic jewry both are seen as a purgatory as you can learn torah and escape. not all rabbis see it that way but the majority of them do per Chabad.
stovebolts
Member
Ahhh, ok. I'm wore out right now.... exhaustion starting to set in again, and all this reading is wearing on my eyes and aggregating my headache.
I'll review those chapters tomorrow and get back with you. I may have a different view on Tyre if it's in your references, and as you know, I'm weak in revelation.
Ttyl
jasonc
Member
I don't hold the catholic view of puragatory as well it implies that blood didn't clean you enough, you need more works to be saved. either you are saved before you die or you are lost. works is part of salvation but no amount of works will make us pure enough. the cross alone does. catholiscm seems to have borrowed the mourners kaddish from jewry. its should be noted that this poster has recited the kaddish a time or two. once for his uncle and grandparents and also a great uncle.
jasonc
Member
the king of tyre couldn't have been in Eden, food for thought.
Ezekiel 28:11-19 Satan was on the holy mountain of God, which I believe to be the throne room of God. When iniquity was found in him God threw him out of His holy mountain and cast him to ground as he became known as the god of this world and the prince of the powers of the air.
Satan is a spirit and not flesh and blood so when he was cut down to the ground it was not literal, but symbolic that his so called kingdom would be that of a lesser magnitude than Gods kingdom. Satan was cast down to the ground and became the ruler of iniquity over it before the creation of man which is why he had the power and right to give the kingdoms of the world over to Christ trying to tempt Him, Matthew 4:8, 9; Luke 4:5-7; 1Peter 5:8, 9.
When it comes to Job it was not Gods bidding, but proving to Satan how faithful Job was in all the power Satan used against him, Job 1:8-12. Satan only has access to God when God permits it for His purpose. In Rev 12:7-9 we read where Satan will no longer have any access to God anymore.
Agreed.
But some will say that God gave us evil so we could have a choice.
I don't like that...it would mean He's not all-good.
Douglas Summers
Member
We are His called out assembly (Church) "I will build my Church" (Matt.16:18), and His body, and He is the head of the Church (Col. 1:17-19). You do not join the Church, the Church is called out by Christ, not an organization, but a living organism by rebirth!, The Church is not defined by men thou they try to. The Lord could call out His Church at any time, once His body is completed before Jacobs trouble or tribulation, to be with Him to Judge with Him. This is what Scripture teaches, this is what the Holy Spirit confirms. The Regenerated are looking for Christ's calling out, while allowing the Gifts of the Spirit conforming us to the image of Christ, complete conformity ( Rom. 8:29). But the self righteous, deceived, and heretics will be left behind. This is the reality of the truth no matter how we might twist the Scriptures to fit our own understanding. He is coming, not many are looking for Him.
Douglas Summers
Member
Hi Runner, Some thoughts of mine. Angles who sinned,( because they do not have a mortal body) never experience the results or pain of sin. Man (who has a corruptible body) (1 Cor. 15:42-43) was created that way to experience the results of sin. Reference Scriptures (Rom. 8:18-34) and (1 Cor. 15:35-50) That he might qualify (by trial of the physical and spiritual pain of sin) as a teacher. God defined sin to man through the law that He might know sin and what it wrought. (Rom. 5: 12-21). Refining us as gold by fire. (1 Pet. 1:6-8)
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stovebolts
Member
I don't think those folks understand that evil is a result of choice. Adam and Eve were created with choice, and each choice is associated with an action.
Adam was told to tend to the earth. What would the results be if he failed to do his duties? Is it considered evil when we willingly pollute our water?
We all continue to have a choice in every aspect of our lives and we all feel the effects of the choices of others.
If I choose to say hi to you, it may bring about a smile and warm feeling from you. If you come to me in need, and I make you wrong or berate you, I've brought your contenence down because by failing to assist you, and comfort you, evil becomes the result.
Most people view evil as these big nasty bad things. And they are... but failing to help where you can, even in the smallest matter let's evil sneak in.
Does that make God bad? I don't think so. What it does is gives us the opportunity to understand more of the forest when it's in our nature to focus on the tree.
I would never get upset with you as I love how inquisitive you are
Ezekiel 28:15-17 it was just found in him, where it came from I think that's just a question without an answer possibly.
It's a dual reference
I would never get upset with you as I love how you think on things
Ezekiel 28:15-17 pretty much explains it, but yet how he became so prideful that would be one of those unanswered questions possible.
Yes, Jesus is the head above the body of believers, but yet not the body as He is the root and we are the branches. You already know where I stand on the rapture so will not derail this thread.
stovebolts
Member
You do understand Ezekiel 28 is directed at the King of Tyre.
Tyre had a huge role in furnishing the holy items in Solomon's Temple. This is what Ezekiel is speaking about.
It is good to keep in mind that Eziekeil was a priest in the order of Aaron and ministered in the Holy Temple prior to the exile. As a result, he used a lot of temple theology in his speak. For example, the rolling wheels with the zillion eyes? That's the temple and it's mount as it relates to Mt. Sinia when the children of Israel went into covenant.
As far as Job, there is much, much more going on than you describe. It's about relationship....
stovebolts
Member
It's metaphor. The temple represented Eden from it's decor of leaves, flowers, pomogranites, holy items, to it's eastern entrance etc....
Considering Tyre played a significant role in building / furnishing the Temple, Tyre was very much present.....
I very much agree with your 5th paragraph. And on....
Its really the every day small matters that usually contribute to our state of being,
Rather than devastating weather or serious health problems.
I understand this to be connected to being in the Kingdom of God.
WE make up the Kingdom that Jesus said must be believed to be seen
In John 3:5. Or was it 7?
Our behavior toward others can make their life pleasant or unpleasant.
Mathew 22? No bible handy...
Love your neighbors.
Very important teachings left to us from Jesus.
That would change the world if we all obeyed.
jasonc
Member
It's also known that Satan was the most beautiful angel and is cast into Gehinnom.
The temple was considered to be eden ? Who is says that? Thats an oral tradition.
You are saying God will redeem.us only to have satan forever tempt us to fall.
Revalation 20:1 to 10
At verse 10 and the devil is cast into the lake of fire If God created satan to be evil and a liar ,why is he punish him,when Angels also forsook their place in heaven?
See revalation 12:7 and 8.
Angels do have freewill.you can't isolate job, you are also ignoring the other chapter isaiah 14