Beware Of False Prophets

Strangelove · Nov 18, 2010

Beware of Charismatic Leader Benny Hinn

There is a new star rising on the charismatic faith-healing circuit. Benny Hinn has attracted crowds as large as 30,000. At 38 he pastors Orlando Christian Center, one of America's fastest growing churches. Its 2,800-seat auditorium is packed three times each Sunday and the service is aired later on TBN. Though he has preached at Grant's [W.V. Grant, a charismatic leader who has been exposed for fraud in having prior information of his supposed "words of knowledge"] church, Hinn's methods vary from Popoff s or Grant's. He raises about $12 million a year with the usual false promises of healing and prosperity in exchange for "seed faith" gifts -- a condition for "miracles." "Give no less than $100," he exhorts an audience, and promises to "lay hands on all the envelopes and ask God for financial miracles for the givers."

Praying at Kuhiman's grave

The secret to Hinn's power is his peculiar anointing, which he connects with Kathryn Kuhlman and Aimee McPherson, founder of the Foursquare Gospel Church. He first felt the "full power of the Holy Spirit" on him at a Kuhlman healing service in 1973 -- and her mantle has presumably fallen upon Hinn. He conducts his meetings almost exactly like hers -- though it takes Hinn much longer to get his audience into the expectant mood that seems to generate psychosomatic "miracles. " In an April 7, 1991 sermon, Hinn revealed that he periodically visits Kuhiman's grave and that he is one of the few with a key to gain access to it. He also visits Aimee's grave, where he says: "I felt a terrific anointing ... I was shaking all over ... trembling under the power of God ... 'Dear God,' I said, 'I feel the anointing.' ... I believe the anointing has lingered over Aimee's body."

In Jesus name?

[video=youtube;sthm3vH6ixY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sthm3vH6ixY[/video]

24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall
shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible,
they shall deceive the very elect.

1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common
salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you
that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once
delivered unto the saints.

1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old
ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of
our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and
our Lord Jesus Christ.

Alabaster · Nov 18, 2010

Strangelove said:
His will be done in me by the Holy Spirit.

As you submit to Him, it will.

Agreed! But they have to be in truth to deserve our respect and honour.

Thank God, many are. If a pastor sins (I am not talking about a major fall here) do you withhold your respect? Is your pastor not human? Do you place too much emphasis on your leaders being perfect examples of Christ to you? I hope not. They should live their lives worthy of emulation, but to place an impossible burden on them is wrong.

No....we are told to BEWARE. To be aware. Which means to attend to, or give our strict attention to. And RESPOND to. In other words we need to SHINE A LIGHT on them. Which is what we are doing in this thread.

Yes we are to beware! We are told to also to have nothing to do with such people who teach falsehoods.

2 John 1:10-11
If anyone comes to your meeting and does not teach the truth about Christ, don’t invite that person into your home or give any kind of encouragement. Anyone who encourages such people becomes a partner in their evil work.

If he is YOUR pastor, by all means confront according to scripture, but not everyone else's pastor.

I agree that God is raising up new teachers but they are OUTSIDE of the traditional churchianity system. So we don't NEED the church building to raise teachers or new Christians. In fact WE don't need to do anything other than offer the Gospel to people. God will do the rest.

That is false.

We need a building only to house the volumes of people who are coming.

What do you mean? God saves them and then we let them loose so the enemy can steal what truth they have received? No, we have a responsibility to obey the command to DISCIPLE.

You optimism is admirable but scripture disagrees. There is only one direction that traditional church Christianity is sliding and that is into APOSTACY.

2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

But as you say, by the will of God, new believers are being raised (like me) completely outside of the apostate church environment.

Pessimism like yours will bring that prophecy to pas in very short order. For me, however, and millions of other believers, we will not stop making disciples.

People outside of what they think is the 'apostate church' are adding to apostasy and don't realize it. It is those who opt out of what Jesus has established for us who become apostate.

Strangelove · Nov 18, 2010

Alabaster said:
As you submit to Him, it will.

How do I submit to Him? Find a church and a pastor? Lol.

Or is it by confessing Jesus as Saviour and repenting of your sins and being baptized by the Holy Spirit to walk with Christ the rest of your days.

Hmmm....I wonder. :chin

Alabaster said:
Thank God, many are. If a pastor sins (I am not talking about a major fall here) do you withhold your respect? Is your pastor not human? Do you place too much emphasis on your leaders being perfect examples of Christ to you? I hope not. They should live their lives worthy of emulation, but to place an impossible burden on them is wrong.

Of course everyone sins. we're not talking about that. We're talking about false teachers. They are dragging our faith through the mud and we should be earnestly contending for it. If you can't be bothered to do that that then its up to you.

Alabaster said:
Yes we are to beware! We are told to also to have nothing to do with such people who teach falsehoods.

2 John 1:10-11
If anyone comes to your meeting and does not teach the truth about Christ, donâ€™t invite that person into your home or give any kind of encouragement. Anyone who encourages such people becomes a partner in their evil work.

And are we allowed to warn our neighbours too? Is that allowed?

Alabaster said:
If he is YOUR pastor, by all means confront according to scripture, but not everyone else's pastor.

Why? That makes no sense. We are to admonish any who are unruly and I have plenty of scripture to back that up. And they dont have to be knocking on your door for you to do it. That is nonsense. Oh wait...ok I just subscribed to Joel Osteens weekly newsletter so I'm now officially part of his congregation. So now can I confront his false teachings with your blessing?

Why are you defending ungodly charlatans who are turning the word of God into filth? By defending them you are ENCOURAGING them. Look back to the scripture you posted to see the consequences of that.

Alabaster said:
That is false.

We need a building only to house the volumes of people who are coming.

Ah yes....herd all the Christians into big buildings where they can be easily controlled and financially milked by apostate mob rule like Joel Osteens decieved congregation.

Alabaster said:
What do you mean? God saves them and then we let them loose so the enemy can steal what truth they have received? No, we have a responsibility to obey the command to DISCIPLE.

You are right we are loose and we are free! Because the enemy is at his most powerful IN THE CHURCH BUILDINGS stealing the truth from right under your noses using demons manifested by communitarian hive mentality leading people away from the God's word and into the luvvy dovey cozy wozey materialistic prosperity false gospel.

Alabaster said:
Pessimism like yours will bring that prophecy to pass in very short order. For me, however, and millions of other believers, we will not stop making disciples.

It's called realism and believing the prophecy of the Bible. And you admit it will come to pass so....I dunno what your point is really.

You talk of 'making disciples'. Is that a fancy way of saying evangelize the Gospels or are you talking about some ritual that you perform in your church?

Alabaster said:
People outside of what they think is the 'apostate church' are adding to apostasy and don't realize it. It is those who opt out of what Jesus has established for us who become apostate.

And there you have the great deception that will catch so many followers of false teachers in its web. They think that apostacy means people who don't go to church, while being led by signs and wonders charismatic charlatans like Benny Hinn and lukewarm self help guru's like Joesl Osteen. Jesus said that He will VOMIT these kind out of his mouth!

Do you think that you are immune to apostacy because you are under a church building and are led by a man who calls himself a pastor?

13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs
and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Anyone outside the megachurch system can see the apostacy happening so clearly and yet those in it are blind. It is the falling away as described in scripture. We all know it, but some find it hard to admit.

What did Jesus establish for us? He established a means to Salvation. And it is accomplished so very simply by the Grace of God through faith in His Son. Thats it. Nothing more. No frills. It's totally free. Jesus is the Word made flesh. One man and his Bible is all you need my friend.

Doc.

Alabaster · Nov 18, 2010

Strangelove said:
How do I submit to Him? Find a church and a pastor? Lol.

Or is it by confessing Jesus as Saviour and repenting of your sins and being baptized by the Holy Spirit to walk with Christ the rest of your days.

Hmmm....I wonder.

Why do you wonder? If you walk with Christ and are into His word, you will be led by the Holy Spirit about this very subject, and won't be on the opposing side.

Of course everyone sins. we're not talking about that. We're talking about false teachers. They are dragging our faith through the mud and we should be earnestly contending for it. If you can't be bothered to do that that then its up to you.

I am glad you don't put pastors and other spiritual leaders in a separate category from yourself.

If a false teacher tried to teach me error, I would approach him or her to correct or exhort. So far, I have had wonderful godly leaders who guard the sheep and won;t allow error to come in. That is why Spirit-led churches are secure places for the righteous...just as Jesus has planned it.

And are we allowed to warn our neighbours too? Is that allowed?

If we love our neighbour, yes. That doesn't include a yammering post on the internet. It has to do with someone you actually know that may be influenced by someone teaching error.

Why? That makes no sense. We are to admonish any who are unruly and I have plenty of scripture to back that up. And they dont have to be knocking on your door for you to do it. That is nonsense. Oh wait...ok I just subscribed to Joel Osteens weekly newsletter so I'm now officially part of his congregation. So now can I confront his false teachings with your blessing?

Why are you defending ungodly charlatans who are turning the word of God into filth? By defending them you are ENCOURAGING them. Look back to the scripture you posted to see the consequences of that.

No, you can't be a buttinsky into other people's ministries. Stick to your own church and be fed well there. Then you can go out and preach the truth.

Receiving emails from a ministry does not make you a member of any congregation! If you don't like the message, unsubscribe.

Ah yes....herd all the Christians into big buildings where they can be easily controlled and financially milked by apostate mob rule like Joel Osteens decieved congregation.

That is a statement of cynicism and mockery...it doesn't belong in the Body of Christ. Sounds like something Satan would say.

You are right we are loose and we are free! Because the enemy is at his most powerful IN THE CHURCH BUILDINGS stealing the truth from right under your noses using demons manifested by communitarian hive mentality leading people away from the God's word and into the luvvy dovey cozy wozey materialistic prosperity false gospel.

That is a lie. Satan is most productive in people who have an axe to grind, who ar4e cynical and who find themselves out of the church and looking on from the outside, never having experienced what fellowship in the Body of Christ is really about.

People who live outside of the church are just that: outside the church. God isn't about to bless and build up those who want to go another way, and not only that, but want to tear down rather than edify. Who else does that well? Satan.

It's called realism and believing the prophecy of the Bible. And you admit it will come to pass so....I dunno what your point is really.

It's not realism!

You talk of 'making disciples'. Is that a fancy way of saying evangelize the Gospels or are you talking about some ritual that you perform in your church?

Making disciples is part of evangelism, but once a person is saved it doesn't end there. We are to raise up people of God, lead and train them in the things of God, in His word and set an example for them to live by. It is a high calling and all of us have been called to it.

And there you have the great deception that will catch so many followers of false teachers in its web. They think that apostacy means people who don't go to church, while being led by signs and wonders charismatic charlatans like Benny Hinn and lukewarm self help guru's like Joesl Osteen. Jesus said that He will VOMIT these kind out of his mouth!

Do you think that you are immune to apostacy because you are under a church building and are led by a man who calls himself a pastor?

No, I have a great church and wonderful pastors. We are determined to live for Christ. apostasy has no room for people who serve God with everything they've got.

Those who opt out are apostate, or becoming so.

Anyone outside the megachurch system can see the apostacy happening so clearly and yet those in it are blind. It is the falling away as described in scripture. We all know it, but some find it hard to admit.

What did Jesus establish for us? He established a means to Salvation. And it is accomplished so very simply by the Grace of God through faith in His Son. Thats it. Nothing more. No frills. It's totally free. Jesus is the Word made flesh. One man and his Bible is all you need my friend.

Doc.

False. Jesus set in apostles to establish churches everywhere. There is no such thing as a lone ranger Christian. We all need each other and we come together best in what we call churches.

coffeeelover · Nov 18, 2010

My version of theology is right and yours is evil. No mine is right yours is evil. No both of you are evil I am right.

It's all nonsense.

Alabaster · Nov 18, 2010

coffeeelover said:
My version of theology is right and yours is evil. No mine is right yours is evil. No both of you are evil I am right.

It's all nonsense.

The only thing that is nonsense is calling it nonsense. We have a responsibility to our own place of worship, to keep it free of error and heresy, and we have a responsibility to our weaker brothers and sisters to help them steer clear of error also.

Mike · Nov 18, 2010

Alabaster, I enjoy you input overall. You are very practical biblically, but I will just disagree with you here. Don't take this as personal in any way. I'm just disagreeing.

In general, I believe it is on us to point out when preachers are off, like J Meyer and the whole "Name it - Claim it" preachers crowd. My problem with Osteen that I've voiced several times on the board is that he waters down the Message to the point that I wonder if anyone who listens to him ever hears the need to repent and confess their sins. That's the side of the Gospel he seems to avoid. It's like its his "third rail". I've watched a few of his programs on tv just to understand him. I rarely, if ever, heard him state or even suggest that Jesus is the only Way. He seems like a universalist who's afraid of turning off some of the MANY people who support him. At some point, he needs to get to the point of the need for a Savior, and that Savior is only Jesus.

Again, no offense intended. I'll continue to enjoy your input!

Alabaster · Nov 18, 2010

Mike said:
Alabaster, I enjoy you input overall. You are very practical biblically, but I will just disagree with you here. Don't take this as personal in any way. I'm just disagreeing.

In general, I believe it is on us to point out when preachers are off, like J Meyer and the whole "Name it - Claim it" preachers crowd. My problem with Osteen that I've voiced several times on the board is that he waters down the Message to the point that I wonder if anyone who listens to him ever hears the need to repent and confess their sins. That's the side of the Gospel he seems to avoid. It's like its his "third rail". I've watched a few of his programs on tv just to understand him. I rarely, if ever, heard him state or even suggest that Jesus is the only Way. He seems like a universalist who's afraid of turning off some of the MANY people who support him. At some point, he needs to get to the point of the need for a Savior, and that Savior is only Jesus.

Again, no offense intended. I'll continue to enjoy your input!

Thank you--I am not offended!

Joyce Meyer is not one of the so-called 'name it, claim it' crowd. She is a fundamentally right-on, solid preacher of truth with a God-given charismatic personality. To me, when people say these negative things, it reveals that they just don't know her or her message or what her heart is all about. It is a shame, because it also reveals that people are being influenced by malicious gossip, rather than discovering for themselves what the score really is.

I understand your views about Osteen. I don't watch him because I have other views about his ministry. His is a large cell church and the meat of the word is being taught during the weak to its members. On TV, we get the fluff. I don't have the appetite for candy. I say this, but I don't doubt his ministry or what he believes about the gospel. I don't watch him simply because it doesn't appeal to me. My own pastor, a leader of a large cell church, would never televise a candy message, but would tell it like it is.

Adstar · Nov 19, 2010

Alabaster said:
Pastors are pastors and that is the gift they walk in. Prophecy is another gift completely and pastors are not necessarily multi-gifted.

If you want to scrutinize a pastor, then scrutinize the one you are assigned to. Otherwise it is simply gossip and malignant speech--even slander. We must refuse to listen to gossip, and obviously, not repeat it.

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w :biggrin

oNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->I think you have been too narrow in your definitions. At the most basic level a Prophet is a spokesman for God. One who gives the Message of God to others.

You seem to see the title Prophet to only be referring to someone who gives a prediction of a future event from God?

For me anyone who gives a message or teaching to others in the name of God is being a messenger of God, a prophet.

So if this preacher is giving the gospel message then all good and well but if he is stepping beyond what God has given then He should make a clear break between them.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Mike · Nov 19, 2010

Alabaster said:
Thank you--I am not offended!

Joyce Meyer is not one of the so-called 'name it, claim it' crowd. She is a fundamentally right-on, solid preacher of truth with a God-given charismatic personality. To me, when people say these negative things, it reveals that they just don't know her or her message or what her heart is all about. It is a shame, because it also reveals that people are being influenced by malicious gossip, rather than discovering for themselves what the score really is.

I understand your views about Osteen. I don't watch him because I have other views about his ministry. His is a large cell church and the meat of the word is being taught during the weak to its members. On TV, we get the fluff. I don't have the appetite for candy. I say this, but I don't doubt his ministry or what he believes about the gospel. I don't watch him simply because it doesn't appeal to me. My own pastor, a leader of a large cell church, would never televise a candy message, but would tell it like it is.

I don't know a lot about J Meyer, so I probably shouldn't have used her as an example. I have heard her say some things that lean that way, but she doesn't seem to be as bold about prosperity preaching as others.

Osteen, though... if he does have other services with more substance, I'd like to see a few of those. I've seen interviews with him too, one with Larry King, and King was throwing up his usual softballs like "So would you tell someone Jesus is the only way to Heaven?" Osteen's reaction was to cringe and literally say something like "I can't bring myself to tell people what they have to do..." :o There's one correct response to that question that a minister (especially) should have prepared to say with gentleness and respect, and that wasn't it. He was given the stage in that interview to give the most basic tenet of our faith, and he balked. I wouldn't want to see a minister in that interview get all fire and brimstone and say "They're going to burn in Hell if they don't accept Jesus!", but there's a way to stay true to the Gospel AND draw people to the Cross.

Alabaster · Nov 19, 2010

Mike said:
Osteen, though... if he does have other services with more substance, I'd like to see a few of those.

They only televise the Sunday service where the entire body of fellowship attends. In our cell church we attend a Sunday Celebration service, but the difference is that our pastor doesn't rein the message in on Sundays even though we have all received meat at our cell groups and at Wednesday's service. He just can't do that in all good conscience, especially when we have at least 5-8 people come to Christ during every weekend of services. but I think Joel does that. It is my opinion only, but he shouldn't televise that service.

I've seen interviews with him too, one with Larry King, and King was throwing up his usual softballs like "So would you tell someone Jesus is the only way to Heaven?" Osteen's reaction was to cringe and literally say something like "I can't bring myself to tell people what they have to do..." :o There's one correct response to that question that a minister (especially) should have prepared to say with gentleness and respect, and that wasn't it. He was given the stage in that interview to give the most basic tenet of our faith, and he balked. I wouldn't want to see a minister in that interview get all fire and brimstone and say "They're going to burn in Hell if they don't accept Jesus!", but there's a way to stay true to the Gospel AND draw people to the Cross.

Click to expand...

I saw that also, and I was quite dismayed by that. But rather than point a finger and paste a label on him, I prayed for him, and asked God to turn Him on to holy boldness!

Alabaster · Nov 19, 2010

Adstar said:
I think you have been too narrow in your definitions. At the most basic level a Prophet is a spokesman for God. One who gives the Message of God to others.

You seem to see the title Prophet to only be referring to someone who gives a prediction of a future event from God?

I haven't posted that much here lately, so how can you determine what I believe about what a prophet is. I definitely do NOT have the view that you suggest. In fact I tend to berate people for holding to that view.

For me anyone who gives a message or teaching to others in the name of God is being a messenger of God, a prophet.

I agree, but it is an unction whereby the hearer receives rhema from God.

So if this preacher is giving the gospel message then all good and well but if he is stepping beyond what God has given then He should make a clear break between them.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Yes, by all means--avoid the preacher who teaches error. That is basic Godly wisdom.

Adstar · Nov 19, 2010

Alabaster said:
I haven't posted that much here lately, so how can you determine what I believe about what a prophet is. I definitely do NOT have the view that you suggest. In fact I tend to berate people for holding to that view. [/FONT]

Well i can only go on what you said:

When you said this (quoted below) about Joel Osteen it lead me to think you may have believed in the narrower definition of a Prophet. And Note i did say "you seem to see the title Prophet to only be referring to someone who gives a prediction of a future event from God?" I did not make a black and white statement on your beliefs in this area.

Alabaster said:

Joel Osteen is not a prophet. He is a pastor of a large church, where the word of God is proclaimed. If you don't like him, don't go there.

Does not Joel Osteen as a pastor give the gospel message of God to the congregation in His church? Therefore is he a prophet or not.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Strangelove · Nov 19, 2010

Alabaster said:
Why do you wonder? If you walk with Christ and are into His word, you will be led by the Holy Spirit about this very subject, and won't be on the opposing side.

I don't wonder I was being sarcastic.

Ahh....questioning another believers faith...the old doozer. All because I dont go to a church building and don't have a pastor 'assigned' to me. It says a lot about your own walk that you would say such a thing to a believer.

Alabaster said:
I am glad you don't put pastors and other spiritual leaders in a separate category from yourself.

If a false teacher tried to teach me error, I would approach him or her to correct or exhort. So far, I have had wonderful godly leaders who guard the sheep and won;t allow error to come in. That is why Spirit-led churches are secure places for the righteous...just as Jesus has planned it.

Show me in the Bible where Jesus has any kind of plans regarding church BUILDINGS as safe havens please.

There is only one safe Church and that is THE Church. Being firmly grounded in His Word and a member of the Body of Christ. This doesnt exist in any specific building friend. It is in our hearts.

Alabaster said:
If we love our neighbour, yes. That doesn't include a yammering post on the internet. It has to do with someone you actually know that may be influenced by someone teaching error.

I actually KNOW anyone I want to on the internet from ALL around the world. Anyone I know on the internet can be my friend and my neighnour no matter their physical location so I am totally justified in warning them of false teachers.

Alabaster said:
No, you can't be a buttinsky into other people's ministries. Stick to your own church and be fed well there. Then you can go out and preach the truth.

My own Church is the Body of Christ wordwide, I will preach the truth to them using the internet that God gave us for that very purpose. If you want to be restricted by physical demographics that's you're choice buddinsky.

Alabaster said:
Receiving emails from a ministry does not make you a member of any congregation! If you don't like the message, unsubscribe.

Any man who professes to speak the Word of God represents Christ and if he errs it is my right and commandment to earnestly contend for the faith. You're obsession with assignment and demographics is classic localized hive mind mentality. 'You're not part of our group so you cant critisize'. Sorry, not plausable.

Strangelove said:
Ah yes....herd all the Christians into big buildings where they can be easily controlled and financially milked by apostate mob rule like Joel Osteens decieved congregation.

Alabaster said:
That is a statement of cynicism and mockery...it doesn't belong in the Body of Christ. Sounds like something Satan would say.

No it's a statement of truth and you can't face it so you assign it as evil.

Alabaster said:
That is a lie. Satan is most productive in people who have an axe to grind, who ar4e cynical and who find themselves out of the church and looking on from the outside, never having experienced what fellowship in the Body of Christ is really about.

Again you are falling for Satans most devious play. You think you are safe in your church. You are not on your guard. You will be easier to deceive when the time comes because you have too much faith in your pastor.

Fellowship in the Body of Christ is about you're personal FAITH not about singing hyms in a large building and having a mortal leader jabber on about how Christianity is so great coz it helps with your finances and makes you feel good.

Alabaster said:
People who live outside of the church are just that: outside the church. God isn't about to bless and build up those who want to go another way, and not only that, but want to tear down rather than edify. Who else does that well? Satan.

Yes those outside the church are just that. Outside. Free. Not using a pastor as a crutch. Having no leader but Christ Himself. Satan works in many ways friend. Other than simply tearing down God's work he also uses something called DECEIT to fool people in to thinking they are safe while all the time leading them into apostacy.

I am fully inside The Church. Have no worries about me.

Alabaster · Nov 19, 2010

Adstar said:
Well i can only go on what you said:

When you said this (quoted below) about Joel Osteen it lead me to think you may have believed in the narrower definition of a Prophet. And Note i did say "you seem to see the title Prophet to only be referring to someone who gives a prediction of a future event from God?" I did not make a black and white statement on your beliefs in this area.

Does not Joel Osteen as a pastor give the gospel message of God to the congregation in His church? Therefore is he a prophet or not.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Anyone who is a believer can give a message, but if it isn't rhema, it isn't prophecy. It is merely preaching.

Alabaster · Nov 19, 2010

Strangelove said:
I don't wonder I was being sarcastic.

Ahh....questioning another believers faith...the old doozer. All because I dont go to a church building and don't have a pastor 'assigned' to me. It says a lot about your own walk that you would say such a thing to a believer.

Show me in the Bible where Jesus has any kind of plans regarding church BUILDINGS as safe havens please.

There is only one safe Church and that is THE Church. Being firmly grounded in His Word and a member of the Body of Christ. This doesnt exist in any specific building friend. It is in our hearts.

I actually KNOW anyone I want to on the internet from ALL around the world. Anyone I know on the internet can be my friend and my neighnour no matter their physical location so I am totally justified in warning them of false teachers.

My own Church is the Body of Christ wordwide, I will preach the truth to them using the internet that God gave us for that very purpose. If you want to be restricted by physical demographics that's you're choice buddinsky.

Any man who professes to speak the Word of God represents Christ and if he errs it is my right and commandment to earnestly contend for the faith. You're obsession with assignment and demographics is classic localized hive mind mentality. 'You're not part of our group so you cant critisize'. Sorry, not plausable.

No it's a statement of truth and you can't face it so you assign it as evil.

Again you are falling for Satans most devious play. You think you are safe in your church. You are not on your guard. You will be easier to deceive when the time comes because you have too much faith in your pastor.

Fellowship in the Body of Christ is about you're personal FAITH not about singing hyms in a large building and having a mortal leader jabber on about how Christianity is so great coz it helps with your finances and makes you feel good.

Yes those outside the church are just that. Outside. Free. Not using a pastor as a crutch. Having no leader but Christ Himself. Satan works in many ways friend. Other than simply tearing down God's work he also uses something called DECEIT to fool people in to thinking they are safe while all the time leading them into apostacy.

I am fully inside The Church. Have no worries about me.

You are deceived and now seeking to deceive. Sitting on the sidelines and opting out of coming under authority that God wants to place over you for your spiritual growth and protection and edification is all rebellion. Satan is behind it. No man who chooses to be an island or a lone ranger in the Kingdom will flourish.

Strangelove · Nov 19, 2010

Alabaster said:
It's not realism!

Ok...you can call it verism if you like.

Alabaster said:
Making disciples is part of evangelism, but once a person is saved it doesn't end there. We are to raise up people of God, lead and train them in the things of God, in His word and set an example for them to live by. It is a high calling and all of us have been called to it.

Hmmm...you are using very strange wording and concepts. Do you mind if I ask you what you're exact denomination is?

How exactly do you 'raise up' people of God after they have been saved? What's involved in the training?

Alabaster said:
No, I have a great church and wonderful pastors. We are determined to live for Christ. apostasy has no room for people who serve God with everything they've got.

Those who opt out are apostate, or becoming so.

Maybe you do have a great church. Maybe you don't and are decieved. You're thoughts on Joel Osteen lead me to think the latter. All I can do is look at the words of certain pastors and call error when I see it.

To say that people who opt out of being part of a physical church congregation is patently unbilblical. Wherever 2 or more are gathered in Christs name is good enough. Including gathering on the internet.

Alabaster said:
False. Jesus set in apostles to establish churches everywhere. There is no such thing as a lone ranger Christian. We all need each other and we come together best in what we call churches.

We all need CHRIST. He is the only one we need. We come together best in our unity in Him. You don't need a building for that or a mortal leader.

By assigning spiritual importance to physical things you show that you don't have your sights on the things above and too much on the things below.

Doc.

Strangelove · Nov 19, 2010

Alabaster said:
We have a responsibility to our own place of worship, to keep it free of error and heresy, and we have a responsibility to our weaker brothers and sisters to help them steer clear of error also.

Correct, and our place of worship is The Church which covers the Earth.

Strangelove · Nov 19, 2010

Alabaster said:
Joyce Meyer is not one of the so-called 'name it, claim it' crowd. She is a fundamentally right-on, solid preacher of truth with a God-given charismatic personality. To me, when people say these negative things, it reveals that they just don't know her or her message or what her heart is all about.

:o Uhm....excuse me....are you claiming to know the heart of Joyce Meyer.

Mike is making observations based on this persons FRUIT. What are you saying?

Alabaster said:
It is a shame, because it also reveals that people are being influenced by malicious gossip, rather than discovering for themselves what the score really is.

So we need to know the heart and not the fruit yes? Is that how you know the score?

Alabaster said:
I understand your views about Osteen. I don't watch him because I have other views about his ministry. His is a large cell church and the meat of the word is being taught during the weak to its members. On TV, we get the fluff. I don't have the appetite for candy. I say this, but I don't doubt his ministry or what he believes about the gospel. I don't watch him simply because it doesn't appeal to me. My own pastor, a leader of a large cell church, would never televise a candy message, but would tell it like it is.

Ab...so....lute HORNSWAGGLE!

Save all the meat for the untelevised small services and produce all the fluff for when his message is being exposed to the entire nation!

LOLZ!

I've never heard anything so ridiculous in my entire life. You are defending and encouraging his actions by saying this. Look back on the scripture you posted about doing things like that.

Who is your pastor may I ask?

Strangelove · Nov 19, 2010

Alabaster said:
They only televise the Sunday service where the entire body of fellowship attends. In our cell church we attend a Sunday Celebration service, but the difference is that our pastor doesn't rein the message in on Sundays even though we have all received meat at our cell groups and at Wednesday's service. He just can't do that in all good conscience, especially when we have at least 5-8 people come to Christ during every weekend of services. but I think Joel does that. It is my opinion only, but he shouldn't televise that service.

Can I ask please how these people come to Christ in your services. Is it up on stage like we see in that Benny Hinn video? Or maybe by reciting a salvation prayer?

Do tell.

Alabaster said:
I saw that also, and I was quite dismayed by that. But rather than point a finger and paste a label on him, I prayed for him, and asked God to turn Him on to holy boldness!

Jude 1:3 doesn't say PRAY earnestly for the faith it says CONTEND!

Contend:

Original Word: ἀγωνίζομαι
Transliteration: agÃ³nizomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ag-o-nid'-zom-ahee)
Short Definition: fight

Word Origin

from agÃ³n

Definition

to contend for a prize, struggle

NASB Word Usage

competes in the games (1), fight (1), fighting (1), fought (1), laboring earnestly (1), strive (2), striving (1).

Man UP!

Focus on the Family

The Gospel of Jesus Christ

Beware Of False Prophets

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