Kids Fighting Back

reba said:

Some folks compare the Kingdom of God to man's government. They believe it is proper and just to support government health care for it is an over all 'good' ignoring abortion. Yet will repeat over and over for a person who can protect them self to turn the other cheek. Hypocrisy

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Yes, that would seem hypocritical. Good thing no one here ignores abortion.

reba said:

Jesus has point blank said to let your answers be yea yea or nay nay and that rule, request of our Lord is ignored.

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In context that has to do with swearing on something for the truth of a matter. We are not to swear on something but just let our 'yes' mean 'yes' and our 'no' mean 'no'. Not sure what that has to do with the discussion, especially how such a "request of our Lord" is being ignored.

Drew said:

I do not believe matters are this simple. When Jesus is captive before Pilate, how does He explain that His disciples are not fighting to save Him (Jesus) from a certain fate? Does He say something like "my disciples are not fighting to recue me because God needs to be sure that I go to the cross to bear the world's sin".

No He does not, even though this is how many rationalize the words of Jesus with their beliefs about self-defence - they argue that the Jesus example is a "special case"; after all, Jesus has to go to the cross.

How does Jesus explain things?

If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not <SUP class=footnote value='[l]'>[l]</SUP>of this realm.â€

Jesus is saying that "fighting", even to save Jesus from death, is simply not consistent with the principles of the Kingdom He has initiated.

So we need to pay heed - it certainly appears that the use of violence - even in service of a seemingly good cause - is off the table for citizens of the Kingdom of God.

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so is calling the law or asking for handouts from the goverment as it must by force take that money from citizens who dont pay.
http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/crime/Olean-man-indicted-on-tax-evasion-charges

i bet if i ask some men have died while resisting arrest as they went to use lethal force. blood money?

nah thats old, and under the law.

an elder in my church packed heat as he was such a man who arrested persons for tax evasion

free childeye is pro-abortion and a pacifist.

Yup Free it is the same passage as turning the other cheek yet that part is ignored.

It's the picking and choosing Free. We could use any number of scriptures. Let your women be silent, head coverings, Jesus gave the example of 'selling all' any one here own anything?

jasoncran said:

free childeye is pro-abortion and a pacifist.

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Well, firstly, that's something childeye will have to work out. But secondly, and most importantly, childeye is not involved in this discussion, so the comment clearly doesn't apply to them.

reba said:

Yup Free it is the same passage as turning the other cheek yet that part is ignored.

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What part is being ignored? The "let your 'yes' be 'yes'..." verse? I cannot see how it has any bearing on this discussion, so of course it would be ignored. It should be ignored, unless I am missing something.

reba said:

It's the picking and choosing Free. We could use any number of scriptures. Let your women be silent, head coverings, Jesus gave the example of 'selling all' any one here own anything?

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How is anyone in this discussion "picking and choosing"? Either the NT supports violence or it doesn't. And it clearly does not.

I still maintain this argument:

If all christians were as passive as some here say we should be, christians would have been wiped out years ago.

GojuBrian said:

I still maintain this argument:

If all christians were as passive as some here say we should be, christians would have been wiped out years ago.

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And yet I appeal to the first 300 years of history to say that that would likely not be the case.

Free said:

Well, firstly, that's something childeye will have to work out. But secondly, and most importantly, childeye is not involved in this discussion, so the comment clearly doesn't apply to them.



What part is being ignored? The "let your 'yes' be 'yes'..." verse? I cannot see how it has any bearing on this discussion, so of course it would be ignored. It should be ignored, unless I am missing something.


How is anyone in this discussion "picking and choosing"? Either the NT supports violence or it doesn't. And it clearly does not.

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so then dont call the cops when your wife is raped then or they have to use any force to save you, nor call the cops when you are hit by a drunk etc.

dont vote as that has to support the govt.

imigane it this way your a being passive and the cops respond to the call and kill the guy as he didnt comply. you called them as it may get ugly. your are using violence to settle the deal.

romans 13

<SUP>3</SUP>For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

<SUP id=en-KJV-28271 class=versenum>4</SUP>For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
<SUP id=en-KJV-28272 class=versenum>5</SUP>Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
<SUP id=en-KJV-28273 class=versenum>6</SUP>For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
<SUP id=en-KJV-28274 class=versenum>7</SUP>Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
<SUP id=en-KJV-28275 class=versenum>8</SUP>Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
<SUP id=en-KJV-28276 class=versenum>9</SUP>For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
<SUP id=en-KJV-28277 class=versenum>10</SUP>Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
<SUP id=en-KJV-28278 class=versenum>11</SUP>And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
<SUP id=en-KJV-28279 class=versenum>12</SUP>The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
<SUP id=en-KJV-28280 class=versenum>13</SUP>Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. <SUP id=en-KJV-28281 class=versenum>14</SUP>But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof

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so i guess i should tell my any victim of sexual assault that it was for the lord that they had to be raped. dont fight just let it happen and praise god for that soul might come to christ.

never mind that the fact that the victim often does also do the same later or has issues with sex, commits suicide.

yup just pray and pop them pills as you see that unholy un christian counselor paid for the goverment or insurance.




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This thread is about kids fighting back.

The title suggests self protection, not violence for the sake of violence. Not one person here has suggested it it a good thing to smash someones head in...

i posted something on hockey and football. will the pacifists adress that double standard?

reba said:

This thread is about kids fighting back.

The title suggests self protection, not violence for the sake of violence. Not one person here has suggested it it a good thing to smash someones head in...

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It's the same old argument liberals use....... :eeeekkk

Person A "I'm against homosexuality or same sex marriage and believe it is a sin."

Liberal "You hate gays! They were born that way! Hate speech!!"

Person A "I believe in the right to defend myself and my loved ones and I believe it's my duty as a christian to do so."

Liberal "You are violent! You condone smashing peoples faces!!"

:

GoJu dont you understand ...It is ok to use the benefits derived from some one else using violence.

This thread is beginning to remind me of this:

[video=youtube;zPnK0NCn_MQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPnK0NCn_MQ[/video]

GojuBrian said:

It's the same old argument liberals use....... :eeeekkk

Person A "I'm against homosexuality or same sex marriage and believe it is a sin."

Liberal "You hate gays! They were born that way! Hate speech!!"

Person A "I believe in the right to defend myself and my loved ones and I believe it's my duty as a christian to do so."

Liberal "You are violent! You condone smashing peoples faces!!"

:

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Seriously? And which "liberal" (note use of pejorative) has made that argument?

Vic C. said:

This thread is beginning to remind me of this:

[video=youtube;zPnK0NCn_MQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPnK0NCn_MQ[/video]

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jasoncran said:

so then dont call the cops when your wife is raped then or they have to use any force to save you, nor call the cops when you are hit by a drunk etc.

dont vote as that has to support the govt.

imigane it this way your a being passive and the cops respond to the call and kill the guy as he didnt comply. you called them as it may get ugly. your are using violence to settle the deal.

romans 13




so i guess i should tell my any victim of sexual assault that it was for the lord that they had to be raped. dont fight just let it happen and praise god for that soul might come to christ.

never mind that the fact that the victim often does also do the same later or has issues with sex, commits suicide.

yup just pray and pop them pills as you see that unholy un christian counselor paid for the goverment or insurance.

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I am left scratching my head as to how this is can be considered a response to anything I have stated. You have made several assumptions about my position, which I have far from clearly articulated. In fact, I believe all I have stated is that there is no support for violence in the NT (and the OT, properly understood) and that it is a complex issue.

Here is a good example, if this poor lady below could have fought off this stupid coward of a fool, should she have stood there and let this coward burn her to death. Where are you Drew and the rest of you pacifist. If she could have fought back she should have used deadly force on this fool. I hope when he goes to jail they get him. And I am not sorry that I said that, and I am still a Christian.


Police: Arrest made in New York elevator burning death

By the CNN Wire Staff
updated 8:13 PM EST, Sun December 18, 2011







New York (CNN) -- A 47-year-old man was arrested Sunday in the death of a 73-year-old woman who was set on fire in the elevator of her Brooklyn apartment building, telling police the woman owed him $2,000, New York police said.
Jerome Isaac faces charges of first-degree and second-degree murder, along with arson, police said in a statement.


The victim was identified as Deloris Gillespie. Isaac also lives in Brooklyn, but does not live at the address where the incident took place, police said in a statement.
Isaac told police Gillespie owed him $2,000 for work he claims he did for her, said NYPD Deputy Commissioner Paul Browne. He turned himself in to police overnight or early Sunday morning, he said.


Neighbors said the woman was returning home to her fifth-floor apartment in Prospect Heights after a grocery store trip Saturday.
A preliminary investigation showed the man was standing outside the elevator on the fifth floor and attacked the woman as she was attempting to exit, authorities said. The incident was caught on surveillance cameras inside and outside the elevator, and police have the videotapes, Browne said.


Authorities believe Isaac initially sprayed the woman with a flammable liquid, presumably gasoline, and continued to spray her as he followed her back into the elevator, Browne said. The woman was first sprayed in the face, he said.
Then, using "one of those long lighters that you would use for a grill, he lit a Molotov cocktail and used the burning leg on top of that to ignite her body," Browne said.


The suspect stepped out of the elevator, threw the Molotov cocktail inside, then returned again to spray more liquid on the woman as she burned, he said.
"This is as bad as it gets," Browne told CNN's Don Lemon.
Authorities responding to a 911 call of a fire found the woman's body inside the elevator. She was pronounced dead at the scene, according to the police statement.


Residents told CNN affiliate WCBS they heard screams and saw smoke -- and realized a woman was on fire inside the elevator.
"Myself and someone from the sixth floor went down knocking to get people out. Knocking on doors telling people 'There's a fire, get out, get out," a resident named John told the station. He did not want to give his last name.
Neighbor Carmen Martinez told the station the victim had lived in the building since the 1980s.


"She used to give toys and gifts to kids all the time," Martinez told the station.
"From everything we hear ... she was just this sweet 73-year-old woman," Browne said.
Photos that police released of the attacker show a man dressed in dark blue clothes, white gloves, with a dust mask on his head and carrying a container on his back. The photos were released during the search for a suspect, Browne said.
Isaac lived about 10 minutes away from Gillespie's apartment building, Brown said.



After the incident, he apparently returned home and ignited the door to his own apartment, he said.
He was concerned he had burned himself in the second incident, although no one else was injured, Browne said. He then hid out on a rooftop for a while and fell asleep, later going into a police station "reeking of gasoline" and telling officers he was responsible for a fire. During questioning, Browne said, he implicated himself in Gillespie's death.
It was not clear whether Isaac had retained an attorney.

Lewis W said:

Should our kids and grand kids fight back in school or the play ground if they are being bullied ? Don't our children have the right to protect themselves. In the old days our parents would make us fight back. Many kids who did not fight back ended up dead or hurt real bad. I am talking about our kids protecting themselves not starting fights. And many times when the kids go and tell teachers or adults they get picked on even worse, and now they are being called little girls for running and telling. Now the bulling gets worse. I think that in some cases a kid has to stand up for him or herself and knock somebodies block off.

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I wish that I could remember the name of the man who said this, but his words are so true. "There are too many men of science, and too few men of faith." We have let our children down in my opinion, when we took the paddles away from our school principals. Our teachers and administrators are powerless on these occasions, and it has been sending the wrong message to our youth. I have never been one that believes in beating a child, but a warmed fanny once in awhile, would help curb this problem, again, in my opinion. I am a strong believer in protecting yourself at any cost. Walking away is always preferable, but sometimes bullies make that impossible, so I personally don't think that a good pop in the nose to any bully who is picking on a smaller child is wrong. That was the law of the land when I grew up, and it served us well.

As usual, the Law of Moses (and Proverbs) has got it right.

De 25:3 Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.

Pr 19:29 Judgments are prepared for scorners, and stripes for the back of fools.
Pr 20:30 The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.

De 19:21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

Interestingly, and valuably, Jesus agrees with this:

Lu 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Lu 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

So does God:

Rom 6. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Free said:

I am left scratching my head as to how this is can be considered a response to anything I have stated. You have made several assumptions about my position, which I have far from clearly articulated. In fact, I believe all I have stated is that there is no support for violence in the NT (and the OT, properly understood) and that it is a complex issue.

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so in the process of a robbery(which i do this to a be true story), the suspect resists arrest and is tackled by the officer and hits his head on the ground. he was drunk and didnt comply.luckily neither were hurt but what if said suspect cracked his skull in the process.

so how is that any better then not using violence ourselves. having the guts to render assistance to the victim does mean going hands on if need be.

in said video i would call the cops but that doesnt mean if i saw the guy beating the other and have the wherewithal thats all i would do.

i doenst make sense to allow ourselves to be robbed. in my county the police will tell you, good luck.. we may not recover that item or even catch that guy.

i still call, but i aint letting him(my wallet) take it unless he is armed.

i have been involved in these things.

i have been robbed twice,

as mentions assaulted. i have called the law on a few people. i am out and about when most of you are asleep.

paper carriers do die.

you laugh.
http://www.cbs12.com/articles/beach-4735431-delivering-county.html

i have seen some stuff in my area. drunks sleeping in cars, nearly hit one one the way home.

called in some robberies in progress(doors that were open that normally arent).asked if i see a man running to call the cops and given the description. i have seen body parts on the road and the police picking it up.

one accident scene i came upon was also a member of my church.2


so in all these i shouldnt render aid? i shouldnt be motivated to don the blue and want life to better for these people i live with?

hmm that sounds rather christlike to me. to give my life so that those in my town dont have to live in fear of the bad guys.

reba said:

Some folks compare the Kingdom of God to man's government. They believe it is proper and just to support government health care for it is an over all 'good' ignoring abortion. Yet will repeat over and over for a person who can protect them self to turn the other cheek. Hypocrisy

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Can you please explain the precise nature of the hypocrisy? In exactly what sense does such a person hold conflicting positions?

Just because a person supports government health care does not mean that person supports abortion. You seem to be implying this.