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  • Happy birthday to you!
    Happy birthday to you!
    Happy birthday, dear Webb,
    Happy birthday to you!
    Ah, well, I don't use the KJV. Most every other version says "a factious man" (NASB, ASV), "a person who stirs up division" (ESV), "a divisive person" (NIV, HCSB), "a divisive man" (NKJV), "a sectarian man" (YLT), etc. That was the sense I was meaning it in.
    Thanks but I'm not interested. I have said all I need to on the matter and I believe my position to be the most biblical and rational.

    God bless,

    Free
    conclusion continued: A trap was laid for Joseph, but he did not step into it. Decades later, with Joseph safely dead, the conspirators came forward and announced they had 'tricked' the prophet. But, if they wanted to show Joseph up, why wait for decades to do it? Why didn't they crow their success from the rooftops in Nauvoo and Illinois? Quite simply, Joseph didn't fall for their trap, and so there was nothing to announce."

    I hope this helps answer your question. I would be glad to answer any other question you may have.
    Alan
    Continued: This is the conclusion of that article. "The conclusion is that Clayton's account appears to be accurate, that Joseph did attempt to translate "a portion" of them by non-revelatory means, and the translation provided matches a corresponding symbol and explanation in the GAEL[the Egyptian Alphabet]. Joseph did not attempt to translate the plates by revelation, and in fact demonstrated no interest in the plates after they left Nauvoo. Had Joseph attempted further translation of the plates using the "Egyptian Alphabet," he would likely have gotten no further than the first, easily identifiable character that he did "translate."
    Webb, I promise I replied in detail to your question on the Kinderhook Plates shortly after you asked. For some reason that reply got lost in cyber space. I'll attempt it again.
    I first heard about this story about four years ago. As I recall, some men took some plates of tin and engraved Egyptian looking markings on them, antiqued them, buried them and then dug them up. The intent was to get Joseph Smith to translate them as if they were authentic artifacts and prove him a fraud. I learned from my research at that time that Joseph never did attempt to translate them by inspiration. This link is to an article that provides the latest scholarly research on the subject. http://en.fairmormon.org/Forgeries_related_to_Mormonism/Joseph_Smith_and_the_Kinderhook_Plates.
    Hi Webb,

    In extension of WIP's comment below, I have added you to the 1-on-1 group, which should enable you to post in the 1-on-1 debate forum without needing approval.
    Webb,
    You may go ahead and create the topic on the 1 on 1 forum. Once your thread has been approved you may enjoy your conversation with Glorydaz at your liesure. Just be sure to note the sticky regarding the rules of the forum. We don't want things to get too far out of hand. I will also let Glorydaz know to watch for the thread. Enjoy.
    I have received your message. This is new territory for me so it may take a little extra time to set it up as I will be learning new tricks. I expect it will be ready by the end of day today. I will let you know when it is ready. Thanks, WIP.
    "I think the thread had to do with the writings of the apostle Paul!"
    Was that aimed at me? It missed. :)
    Take away Paul's 14 letters etc, and I think you will miss much of what I posted about, a loving God full of grace and mercy, who sets His "mind" yet allows for a different outcome due to fervent prayers by believers, whom accepted the call to eternal life. Obviously, for some, it is one of those things difficult to understand. Be well.
    Hi Webb,

    Unfortunately TruthSeeker2012 couldn't keep up his end of the agreement when he signed up on this forum. After numerous Terms of Service violations and un offical warnings, we had to terminate his account.
    I really wished he could have controlled himself in a manner that adhered to our TOS.

    Sorry.
    E
    Hi, Webb. Eze. 9:study gives what God requires of us in the very last day to do. Surely 'only' these one's realize what Christ mean's when He said follow me! Matt. 10:37-38 (compare O.T.'s end with N.T.'s end! Eccl. 3:15

    --Elijah
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