His wife

Jim Parker said:

What do you mean by "organization"? The Church, made up of the believing people, has always been an organized congregation with elders, overseers (bishops), and deacons to lead and serve it.

iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)



DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

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The church . . .is you . . .very personal . . .as you are His child . . .a very personal and unique relationship . . . but we are also all His children . . . .and it does not suddenly change with the bride . . .as sure . . . all grown-ups will be His bride . . .but also very specific and uniquely for everyone in that particular relationship.

Son 6:8 There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number.
Son 6:9 My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.

Love Johan

Nathan said:

Thanks I'll have to say up front that I am not real good at long replies like this that are broken up.

Maybe its the term "born again" that gets people thinking in two different directions. I have decided to go with "born from above" because it really does make a difference in how people understand what happens.

Procreation is different than creation. Sure Jesus comes to live in us, through the Spirit, but that only makes us a "new" creation - not a procreation. We are still humans, but with the capability of receiving life through Him. If we were procreation's, then we would have eternal life apart from Him. I never see in the Bible where that is possible.

Satan was actually telling them they could live outside God's law, not under it. Not becoming "better human beings", but rather becoming as God is, God like beings. This is the same as thinking we are "procreation" of God.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away;behold, the new has come.

We are in Christ as the new creation, not Christ in us as a procreation. His Spirit is in us, but not in a combination of us and Him. If that were the case, then we could never sin.

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

If we were united, in a procreated state, with the Spirit - then it would be impossible for us to grieve the Spirit.

God does not experience joy in the same way we do. It is impossible to understand just how He experiences it - because we cannot be like Him. God wants worship. That is not heathen. It is natural to worship that which is greater than you. If you are "equal" to something you cannot worship it.

Revelation 22:1-5
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.

We are children of God, yes. But that is a true metaphoric term used to describe the fact that it is God who brings us into His family. Family being, those with the same thoughts and desires.

Maybe we are speaking the same thing, maybe not. Its kind of hard for me to know for sure. But I had a really strong feeling that your saying we are procreated beings of God, which make us like Him in all that He is. That would be impossible as God Is, and we will always be His creation.

However;

1 John 3:2 - Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

While I am a firm believer in looking toward eternity by faith, looking for and waiting for our heavenly home, we should not neglect that which is here and now. However we will be like Him, has not yet appeared. We don't know how much like Him we will be just yet.

But we can look forward to that change with anticipation.

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USING CAPITALS NOT TO FALL INTO THE SAME PROBLEM AGAIN

While I am a firm believer in looking toward eternity by faith, looking for and waiting for our heavenly home, we should not neglect that which is here and now. However we will be like Him, has not yet appeared. We don't know how much like Him we will be just yet.

OBVIOUSLY IT WILL BE ACCORDING TO YOUR FAITH

Mat 9:28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.
Mat 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

AND IF IT IS NOT WHAT IT SHOULD BE . . . .YOU WILL LOOSE OUT WHAT YOU DIDN'T BELIEVE
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

AND ACCORDING TO:
But I had a really strong feeling that your saying we are procreated beings of God, which make us like Him in all that He is

YOUR "FEELING"
GOD WILL HAVE TO DO MUCH MORE WORK ON ME . . .AS I AM TRUSTING HIM FOR A BIGGER SALVATION.

Jer 18:6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

SO . . . ULTIMATELY IT BOILS DOWN TO HOW BIG GOD'S LOVE IS FOR US . . .BECAUSE IT SURELY CANNOT BE A CASE OF HIS LACK OF ABILITY.


LOVE JOHAN

Johan said:

The church . . .is you

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No. The Church is all believers.

Jim Parker said:

No. The Church is all believers.

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Jesus started a new "church"

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.


Then brought it to us.

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

And then throw it open a bit more.

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

What we have on earth

1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

is just to help us understand the heavenlies . . .and to go into the heavenlies . . .to enjoy life there . . . and we are called . . .into!

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.


Love Johan

Matthew 18:15-17
If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge maybe established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

"Church" - ekklēsia - a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth

From a compound of ἐκ (G1537) and a derivative of καλέω (G2564)

G1537-out of, from, by, away from & G2564-to call; to call i.e. to name, by name

Therefore the "church" are the "called out ones", even more specific "called out ones in Christ"

Nathan said:

Matthew 18:15-17
If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge maybe established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

"Church" - ekklēsia - a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth

From a compound of ἐκ (G1537) and a derivative of καλέω (G2564)

G1537-out of, from, by, away from & G2564-to call; to call i.e. to name, by name

Therefore the "church" are the "called out ones", even more specific "called out ones in Christ"

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OK . . .I see what you were speaking about. We as all the Christians = church . . but I am speaking about the bride and that specific relationship which are different from that of children and Father as most of the "church" is in this particular relationship of Father - child and bride speak about Husband - wife

Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.