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Bible Study Why is this so hard to do?

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The Truth

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I read the following verse which I am familiar with:

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. Mathew 6:14

Why is it so hard to forgive others who trespass against us when we feel offended, deeply hurt and betrayed?
 
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Dear Sister The Truth, it is Jesus atoning for our sins that is seen of our Father, and applied to our righteousness. Though we have been bought and seated eternal in the heavens, there is also a walk of fellowship which can be harmed due to our actions and attitudes, and can there be consequence? Most assuredly.

Just one short scripture is that of falling off from grace in Gal 5:4 due to our personal works. Should we who have received God’s grace turn and not follow the example shown by our Savior.

We are not saved by works, but James put it like this. Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

An example of forgiving that may help you is a post I made some time ago. Just click on the following URL link.
http://www.christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/forgiving-someone-you-hate.53686/
 
I read the following verse which I am familiar with:

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. Mathew 6:14

Why is it so hard to forgive others who trespass against us when we feel offended, deeply hurt and betrayed?

The "reason" it is hard, is simply because of our sin nature. Our sin nature says our sin is not as bad as another's sin. It says the little "white" lie I told is not as bad as the money someone stole from the bank.

We do not see how we hurt others, so when others hurt us we feel offended, hurt, and betrayed. That's why its hard. When our eyes are open to how even our little sin effects others, then forgiveness becomes much 'easier'. Point being - forgiveness being hard is an issue of pride.

I'll say this very clearly. It is impossible to forgive others, and I do mean honestly forgive them, until you understand the forgiveness God gives you. Often times the ones that struggle with forgiveness are the ones who do not find their sin toward God 'all that bad'. They generally believe they are 'better' than most.

There are a few parables and stories that give us this insight. The one that really settles it in for me is in Luke 7.

Luk 7:36-50
One of the Pharisees asked him to eat with him, and he went into the Pharisee’s house and reclined at table. And behold, a woman of the city, who was a sinner, when she learned that he was reclining at table in the Pharisee’s house, brought an alabaster flask of ointment, and standing behind him at his feet, weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head and kissed his feet and anointed them with the ointment. Now when the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, he would have known who and what sort of woman this is who is touching him, for she is a sinner.” And Jesus answering said to him, “Simon, I have something to say to you.” And he answered, “Say it, Teacher.” “A certain moneylender had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. When they could not pay, he cancelled the debt of both. Now which of them will love him more?” Simon answered, “The one, I suppose, for whom he cancelled the larger debt.” And he said to him, “You have judged rightly.” Then turning toward the woman he said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet. You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven—for she loved much. But he who is forgiven little, loves little.” And he said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” Then those who were at table with him began to say among themselves, “Who is this, who even forgives sins?” And he said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”


How often I have heard people say "I'll forgive them, but I don't have to forget....." - that's not true forgiveness. Seriously, its not. Would God forgive in any other way than true forgiveness? Of course not. Does God forgive us, yet keep record of those things? I sure hope not.....

Psa 32:1-2
A Maskil of David.
Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven,
whose sin is covered.
Blessed is the man against whom the LORD counts no iniquity,
and in whose spirit there is no deceit.


That phrase "counts no" is;
châshab, khaw-shab'; a primitive root; properly, to plait or interpenetrate, i.e. (literally) to weave or (generally) to fabricate; figuratively, to plot or contrive (usually in a malicious sense); hence (from the mental effort) to think, regard, value, compute:—(make) account (of), conceive, consider, count, cunning (man, work, workman), devise, esteem, find out, forecast, hold, imagine, impute, invent, be like, mean, purpose, reckon(-ing be made), regard, think.

Here is another one;

Psa 103:8-14

The LORD is merciful and gracious,
slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love.

He will not always chide,
nor will he keep his anger forever.

He does not deal with us according to our sins,
nor repay us according to our iniquities.

For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his steadfast love toward those who fear him;

as far as the east is from the west,
so far does he remove our transgressions from us.


As a father shows compassion to his children,
so the LORD shows compassion to those who fear him.

For he knows our frame;
he remembers that we are dust.


This is what true forgiveness is. So, the reason it is hard is two fold. One, we do not think our sin is that bad. Two, we try to forgive without forgetting.
 
I'll say this very clearly. It is impossible to forgive others, and I do mean honestly forgive them, until you understand the forgiveness God gives you. Often times the ones that struggle with forgiveness are the ones who do not find their sin toward God 'all that bad'. They generally believe they are 'better' than most.
I don't know if I completely agree with this. If asked, I can retell the story of my first marriage and subsequent divorce so I obviously haven't forgotten about it. I still remember when I met my first wife, our first kiss, our wedding, or lives together. In order for me to forget completely the pain I endured leading up to our divorce and after, I would have to forget her and our life together, which would also require me to forget my son, his wife, and my grandson.

But I can assure you that I no longer hold anything against her and no animosity toward her or me at all for what happened. I believe I have forgiven her and myself. Regret? Yes, I regret that things turned out the way they did.
 
I don't know if I completely agree with this. If asked, I can retell the story of my first marriage and subsequent divorce so I obviously haven't forgotten about it. I still remember when I met my first wife, our first kiss, our wedding, or lives together. In order for me to forget completely the pain I endured leading up to our divorce and after, I would have to forget her and our life together, which would also require me to forget my son, his wife, and my grandson.

But I can assure you that I no longer hold anything against her and no animosity toward her or me at all for what happened. I believe I have forgiven her and myself. Regret? Yes, I regret that things turned out the way they did.
My first wife died of Liver failure, she drank herself to death and my third wife does not live here anymore. I hold no animosity for any of them and they all three cheated on me. My second wife and I are friends but we never discuss the past.

Have I forgotten, a lot, yes, but too much, no. What is there is there until my LORD
 
I think having mercy and having forgiveness becomes easier when a person has their faults forgiven, and in their struggles they are given mercy. The worse their sin that was forgiven, I think the easier to offer a simular forgiveness to others.

Luke 7:47 shows this aspect with love given to the person who forgives you.

Luke 7:47 (NIV)
47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.”

Sometimes we have to fall before we recoginize our responsibility to help another up.
 
I don't know if I completely agree with this. If asked, I can retell the story of my first marriage and subsequent divorce so I obviously haven't forgotten about it. I still remember when I met my first wife, our first kiss, our wedding, or lives together. In order for me to forget completely the pain I endured leading up to our divorce and after, I would have to forget her and our life together, which would also require me to forget my son, his wife, and my grandson.

But I can assure you that I no longer hold anything against her and no animosity toward her or me at all for what happened. I believe I have forgiven her and myself. Regret? Yes, I regret that things turned out the way they did.

I just had a long conversation with a coworker on this also. Forgetting is not the same as not remembering - as in - vanish from thought. Forgetting is 'not counting', like God does to us.

I used the example of doing something to him every single day at work. I mean, each day I would come in and pour water in his seat or something like that. Forgiveness - in most peoples definition - says he would say, ok and not retaliate against me. After a while, he would probably do something about it - and it probably wouldn't take more than just a few times.

True forgiveness says, I forgive you - and each time it happens - I still forgive you. Meaning, if he truly forgave me, I could come in for an entire year and pour water in his chair. Oh sure, he would never be able to forget after a month of me doing it, but if he actually forgave me, then he would not pretense his actions toward me based on him thinking I was going to do the same thing tomorrow.

That's what true forgiveness does. It wipes the 'slate' clean so that your actions toward another are not predetermined on what they 'might' do. Its hard for us to forgive, and even harder when its a repeated 'offender'. The reason is because we still hold a 'count' of their prior wrongs and justify our 'dislike' for the current wrongs.

Jesus put it this way;

Mat 18:21-22
Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy-seven times.

Luk 17:3-4
Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him, and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him


Think about this with Luke 17 in mind. Say you have a friend that was staying at your house. He stole something from you in the morning. Then came and told you. Easy to forgive. Then he does it again. Little harder to forgive. Then again. Ok, this is starting to get old. Then....again.......enough already - your out of here.

At this point, you may say you 'forgive' him, but really all you are doing is removing him from the ability to repeat the offense - because you are still keeping a record of his sin. Jesus said we should forgive 7 times in the day(figuratively of course), meaning, that would mean you did not stop him at #4, or #5, or #6, or even #7.

When you forgive, you forget the offense. If you do not forget the offense, then eventually you will come to the point where you will not forgive the person in anyway shape or form.
 
I read the following verse which I am familiar with:

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. Mathew 6:14

Why is it so hard to forgive others who trespass against us when we feel offended, deeply hurt and betrayed?

I think you answered your own question, it's because you have been offended, deeply hurt and betrayed. Dont be ashamed because your angry or unable to forgive now. In my opinion at this stage I'd say you are the priorty and need to do whats right for yourself that will help you heal from these deep emotional wounds you've suffered. Let it out. Forgiveness will come due time.
 
I just had a long conversation with a coworker on this also. Forgetting is not the same as not remembering - as in - vanish from thought. Forgetting is 'not counting', like God does to us.
Doesn't Scripture say that God does more than just not count? I don't know where it is but I remember God saying He will remember our sins no more or something along those lines.

As I expressed before, I believe it is possible to forgive without forgetting. I forgave my wife, I did not forget what happened and I do not count it against her anymore. I believe that is forgiveness. God is capable of totally forgetting but I don't know if we are.
 
Doesn't Scripture say that God does more than just not count? I don't know where it is but I remember God saying He will remember our sins no more or something along those lines.

As I expressed before, I believe it is possible to forgive without forgetting. I forgave my wife, I did not forget what happened and I do not count it against her anymore. I believe that is forgiveness. God is capable of totally forgetting but I don't know if we are.

Isa 43:25

“I, I am he
who blots out your transgressions for my own sake,
and I will not remember your sins
.


It would be hard to go into the specifics of what it means to not count(forget), in your situation, without getting into the specifics of your situation. If you understand what I mean. I'm not saying that not counting someones error always means the same to everyone. A person who is hit by someone, and then forgives them, is going to have a different memory than a person who just had a lie told to them.

What I am saying is if you are finding yourself in difficulty forgiving someone, then its because you cannot let go of what they did.

Why are memories so captivating? Good and bad?

Forgiving is a choice, and that choice means you 'do' something. Luke 7 is a good example of how forgiveness works, and Matthew 6 is why it should be done.

Again, forgetting is not having zero recollection of what took place, as in total memory loss. I don't believe this is what God does either. God "not remembering" our sins does not mean they vanish - He just does not bring them to recollection. When He forgives, He does not hold a record of it against us and He views us through the sacrifice of His Son. When we forgive someone we should not hold a record against them, and we should view them through the grace that is shown to us.

I would define 'forgetting' in this manner. When I forget something I do not count it as worth anything to me. It is useless and meaningless. I lay aside whatever it is as if it had never happened. So that, when I am encountering the same situation, person, or thing - I do not let that which is in the past affect my decision toward them at all.

To bring back the analogy of having your friend steal from you and then repeatedly ask for your forgiveness. In that situation, if you actually forgive them, and they wanted to - they would keep on stealing from you, because your forgiveness means you are not counting what they did before, as a pretense on how they are going to act immediately after you forgive them.

I think the number one way people view forgiveness is by not doing something to someone when they hurt you. That's why they hold on to the memory so close. They bring the memory to mind in order to make them feel good - to feel like they actually forgave the person - all because they did not retaliate in some way. However, they let how they deal with the individual in the future, be based on the fact they don't "have to" forget what the person did.

"Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us". Do we glance over this haphazardly? Exactly how do you want God to forgive you? Do you want Him to not just punish you, or would you rather He(as He said) not punish you and not recount your sin when dealing with you in the future?

Some just want no punishment. I remember when I did something wrong I sure did not want a paddle to my butt - but I also did not want to always look in my fathers eye and wonder if he was still remembering what I did wrong. Not just getting a paddle was good, but being able to know he did not 'count it against me' made all the difference in the world.
 
Some thing we are to remember .. forget who molested my grandkids .. not gonna happen... Some things are degrees ...
 
Some thing we are to remember .. forget who molested my grandkids .. not gonna happen... Some things are degrees ...

Sure, you'll never put it out of your memory. But you can forgive them - the same way God forgives you. And you can forget(not recollect) it also. Its possible - I assure you.

As the OP stated, its hard. Forgiveness is not easy - in order for God to do it He had to sacrifice His own Son. I think we bypass over that too quick. We so easily lay aside what it meant for Jesus to die for our sins.

We set 'levels' or 'degrees' of wrong doing. Some things are more hurtful to us than others. Yet God forgives us in a true sense, and continues to forgive us - even when we willfully sin.

Think about it. We don't sin in ignorance anymore(if we are in the faith). When we sin, we know exactly what that sin caused - yet we still do it.

In our mind, molestation of a child is a horrific act. No doubt. Is it worse than crucifying the Son of God? Why do we think our sin is less evil than someone else?

This is how we can forgive. It is how only those who are believers can actually truly forgive. The only way to possibly forgive someone is if you understand that you have been forgiven - and what your sin was to God.
 
Sure, you'll never put it out of your memory. But you can forgive them - the same way God forgives you. And you can forget(not recollect) it also. Its possible - I assure you.

As the OP stated, its hard. Forgiveness is not easy - in order for God to do it He had to sacrifice His own Son. I think we bypass over that too quick. We so easily lay aside what it meant for Jesus to die for our sins.

We set 'levels' or 'degrees' of wrong doing. Some things are more hurtful to us than others. Yet God forgives us in a true sense, and continues to forgive us - even when we willfully sin.

Think about it. We don't sin in ignorance anymore(if we are in the faith). When we sin, we know exactly what that sin caused - yet we still do it.

In our mind, molestation of a child is a horrific act. No doubt. Is it worse than crucifying the Son of God? Why do we think our sin is less evil than someone else?

This is how we can forgive. It is how only those who are believers can actually truly forgive. The only way to possibly forgive someone is if you understand that you have been forgiven - and what your sin was to God.
Nathan,
I don't know your age but asking Reba to forget that is akin to asking me to, and expecting me to forget find my best friend after a Mortar hit him in the chest or forgetting the night the Gooks overran us. I tried to forget for better than thirty years and the nightmares got worse every week.
Some things should impact a person so that only the Glorified Body will erase them.
 
A quick look at the OT laws will let ya know sin has degrees....
so then you would not hesitate to have that guy alone with other kids.?

Does forgiveness have degrees?

I knew this question would come. I would not leave him alone with my kids, anymore than I would leave any other man alone with them. Relative or not.

There is a difference between being wise and forgiveness.

Consider this. God forgives us and shows this through love. He desires us to also forgive and show the same love.

Do we think God keeps us from doing certain things based on sins He has forgiven us? I would estimate that we only think that when we believe God has not forgiven us. When we do believe it, it does not effect us. Paul persecuted Christians before forgiveness, after he ministered to them.

Here is a bit of understanding to the situation. A man who sins in certain ways, who then is truly repentant and seeks forgiveness, will not desire to be put into a situation where the temptation would be around.

So it's not a matter of me being hesitant, because if I have forgiven someone then i know they were repentant of the act - knowing that, I know they would not want to be in a situation that would tempt.
 
I should not have gone so personal :shame

That's tuff Reba. Sometime people use that example without actually having experience with it.

On the up side - little as it may seem - I think it helps to talk about things that hurt sometimes.

I in no way wish to negate the severity of something like that. But we cannot also downplay other sins based on it.
 
There are degrees and there are consequence. Even in the new testament things can be discerned. One bit just off the top of my head, is the part where it says for he who used to steal to now work with his hands.
 
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