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Israelis demand Third Temple

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Jim: I am well aware of this theory. However, where to house so many soldiers does not clinch the location of the temple. The link I gave to you is from a woman who believes in the "southern theory" similar to that of Tuvia Sagiv except Norma Robertson places the temple on the extreme south end of the mount and about 1/3 of the temple complex actually overhanging the present mount. She used the description of Josephus to size both the temple complex and Fort Antonia together and it all still fit on the mount. Basically, Fort Antonia was where the Dome of the Rock now stands and the temple was nearer to the Al Asqa Mosque. Both locations are north of the City of David on the present temple mount. I am open to various theories in which I will make a permanent stand as the evidence comes in, but the city of David is not one of them as already explained. It's always easier to rule out locations than to specify an exact one.
 
Jim Parker said:
Problem: You can't get 6000 Roman soldiers and all their equipment plus another 4000 ancillary civilians with their work shops etc. onto that area.
Click to expand...

So then Josephus' size description is wrong? Also, can you explain to us how the Trumpeting stone is all the way up where you believe Fort Antonia was located on the whole mount? Also explain that bible verse where the ark was taken out of the city of David to the temple? Maybe explain why the ancient Jewish writings claimed the water supply came from the Etam Spring, not the Gihon? And lastly, explain how other structures and remains were found where the "City of David" theory claims the temple stood? You have to come up with a better argument than not fitting 6000 soldiers and 4000 ancillary civilians to prove where it stood. Frankly, if the temple was on the extreme southern end, that would not make it a whole lot less area than if they had the whole present temple mount.
 
tim-from-pa said:
So then Josephus' size description is wrong? Also, can you explain to us how the Trumpeting stone is all the way up where you believe Fort Antonia was located on the whole mount? Also explain that bible verse where the ark was taken out of the city of David to the temple? Maybe explain why the ancient Jewish writings claimed the water supply came from the Etam Spring, not the Gihon? And lastly, explain how other structures and remains were found where the "City of David" theory claims the temple stood? You have to come up with a better argument than not fitting 6000 soldiers and 4000 ancillary civilians to prove where it stood. Frankly, if the temple was on the extreme southern end, that would not make it a whole lot less area than if they had the whole present temple mount.
Click to expand...
The people who hold a different opinion also quote Josephus.
I am not conversant enough on the subject to argue with you (assuming I had a desire to do so.)
 
JLB said:
http://media-ios.a7.org/a7radio/misc/video/17/jul/yarok-he.mp4

Thousands of Israelis converged on Jerusalem's Old City Monday night, marching around the walls of Jerusalem to commemorate the destruction of the Temple.

The event has taken place every year since 1994, but was almost canceled by the police due to fears of Arab violence. Despite information received by the police of calls on Facebook to 'Stop the settlers from walking to the Western Wall', Jerusalem Police District Commander Yoram Halevi decided not to prevent the traditional event from taking place, and gave the go-ahead.

Event organizers and Woman in Green headed co-founders Nadia Matar and Yehudit Katzover praised the decision."It is brave, moral, and the obvious thing to do" they said "It shows that the police do not submit to terrorism. Any place that is threatened by terrorism should be strengthened and protected by the police."

The evening started with a joint reading of 'Eicha' (Lamentations) in Independence Park, and continued with the participants marching around the Old City walls up to the Lions Gate, where speeches were given by Deputy Defense Minister MK Eli Ben Dahan (Jewish Home), MK Yehuda Glick (Likud), and Yishai Fleisher, International Spokesman for the Jewish Community of Hevron.

MK Glick, a noted Temple Mount activist, focused his speech on the recent terror attacks that rocked Israel. "This past year, the police have paid a very high price. Five policemen were killed here" he said. "We've gotten to the root of everything, the Temple Mount"

Glick noted the sharp increase of Jewish visitors on the Temple Mount. calling it a miracle, along with the re-settlement of Judea and Samaria saying that "The IDF can defeat its enemies in battle, but those who give them the power to win are the people tonight, mothers and children who are putting facts on the ground."

Deputy Defense Minister Eli Ben Dahan echoed Glick's remarks, saying that "everyone who came here tonight proved with his feet that we want the Temple back - and quickly."

Ben Dahan also called on the government to make Jewish prayer possible on the Temple Mount.

"It cannot be that everyone is to pray here except Jews," he said.




JLB
Click to expand...
I read that as Israel demands third nipple
 
ISRAEL TAKES STEP TOWARD REBUILDING THE THIRD TEMPLE!

 
That is a good video showing the "City of David" viewpoint. However, the points they bring up seems like all conjecture based on the Gihon Spring, the supposed size of Fort Antonia, and so forth. If the City of David was the true location, that's in the Jews' hands now, and they could come up with archaeological evidence. But this video offers none. And the archaeologists found none of any temple there. It's a more "why the temple can't be up there" video than "here's the proof it was here".

Now the earlier link I shared with the Norma Robertson theory places only 2/3's of the temple on the southern end of the mount, and about 1/3 of it "hanging off the southern edge" by today's mount. That gives the rest of the mount to Fort Antonia, a very large area to which she sized it also based on Josephus' description, so no contradiction.

This theory in the video is that of Dr. Martin and Bob Cornuke is a big backer of it. But if you look at that picture, and then compare to Norma Robertson's diagram, the causeway in Martin's diagram that goes BETWEEN Fort Antonia and the Temple complex is straight into the Temple's east gate in Norma's diagram. I am NOT a "Dome of the Rock" Advocate either, but the temple was not that far down into the City of David. There was no room for that, not to mention the other remains they found in that same location.

Norma deals with the water system, the remains of the walls, the Ophel area (where she believes the temple was) previous historical diagrams and maps, and archeologist's findings to support her theory. While not mainline, I do agree she has some good points which logically resonated with me more than the City of David theory. The closest theory to her theory is the southern proposal by Tuvia Sagiv. To my knowledge she is not hostile to that theory but believes the evidence is a little more south of his theory.
 
I do find it amazing that its mostly athiest Jews, who don't even believe in God, quoting religion to try claim God gave Jews the land and its there's.

I dont believe Israel wants a temple at all. Maybe some religious Jews.
 
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kiwidan said:
I do find it amazing that its mostly athiest Jews, who don't even believe in God, quoting religion to try claim God gave Jews the land and its there's.

I dont believe Israel wants a temple at all. Maybe some religious Jews.
Click to expand...

If there are some like that, then maybe they are not as atheistic as they profess to be. At the very least, they are quoting an ancient source proving the land claim goes back to the BC era when lately the UNESCO wanted to deny any historical connection.
 
kiwidan said:
So once they build a temple, if they ever did, where is the levite?. Not one single person can prove there tribe, all records were destroyed. And where is a pure breed spotless heifer in this world?. There is none.
Click to expand...

No so sure you can make that assertion. I've *heard* they even claim they know some who are from the house of David. This does not prove or disprove anything from my claim, but what I am saying is some of them made such claims. They have an army of training priests now. It is said any Jew with the last name Cohen or Levine for example came from the priestly class. I can see that as surnames are automatically an unbroken genealogy to a specific person. In other words, there has to be a physical connection father-son to even get that name barring adoption. On the bright side, there are basically 3 tribes with the Jews today, so assuming fairly equal distribution amongst them, that's a one in three chance of randomly picking a Levite. :lol

As for the red heifer, there have been several that come and go, and some are even attempting to raise them here in the USA. The last one if I remember correctly was here in the USA. The Jews claim that they can produce one when the time is right. How true that is I don't know (and its with genetics not a can of paint :lol)
 
tim-from-pa said:
If there are some like that, then maybe they are not as atheistic as they profess to be. At the very least, they are quoting an ancient source proving the land claim goes back to the BC era when lately the UNESCO wanted to deny any historical connection.
Click to expand...

Quoting an ancient source to claim land. Lol. Any ancient source does not prove its trustworthy. Someone wrote something, so what. I will say the same about the bible. Something can be well historically preserved but it does not mean its truth. I have reason why I believe the bible text but hats not the point.

1600 years ago someone wrote the sun sets in water, its a historically reliable source but does not mean its true right. :biggrin2
 
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kiwidan said:
Quoting an ancient source to claim land. Lol. Any ancient source does not prove its trustworthy. Someone wrote something, so what. I will say the same about the bible. Something can be well historically preserved but it does not mean its truth. I have reason why I believe the bible text but hats not the point.

1600 years ago someone wrote the sun sets in water, its a historically reliable source so it must be true right. :biggrin2
Click to expand...

Well, you don't have to believe the bible, but for those of us who believe it's true, you will very clearly see multiple reiterations where the Lord himself stated promises. And I believe it's true. In the case of the temple mount, Archaeologist Eilat Mazar digs with one hand and holds the Bible in her other hand and is finding it to be an accurate historical source due to her findings. Eilat Mazar is not a religious Jew.
 
tim-from-pa said:
Well, you don't have to believe the bible, but for those of us who believe it's true, you will very clearly see multiple reiterations where the Lord himself stated promises. And I believe it's true. In the case of the temple mount, Archaeologist Eilat Mazar digs with one hand and holds the Bible in her other hand and is finding it to be an accurate historical source due to her findings. Eilat Mazar is not a religious Jew.
Click to expand...

I never said i didnt believe it, I mean as in ancient text can be historically reliable and well preserved but it does not mean its true. Like any myths and legends.
 
tim-from-pa said:
Well, you don't have to believe the bible, but for those of us who believe it's true, you will very clearly see multiple reiterations where the Lord himself stated promises. And I believe it's true. In the case of the temple mount, Archaeologist Eilat Mazar digs with one hand and holds the Bible in her other hand and is finding it to be an accurate historical source due to her findings. Eilat Mazar is not a religious Jew.
Click to expand...

Jesus was speaking to people at that time, Paul was speaking to people at that time, and Revelation was speaking to people at that time.

I dont want to read the bible anymore trying to understand what was never written to me to understand.

I never had the law anyhow only once I knew it and read the bible was i cursed. But where there is no law there is no transgression and Christ took away the sin of the world.
 
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JLB said:
http://media-ios.a7.org/a7radio/misc/video/17/jul/yarok-he.mp4

Thousands of Israelis converged on Jerusalem's Old City Monday night, marching around the walls of Jerusalem to commemorate the destruction of the Temple.

The event has taken place every year since 1994, but was almost canceled by the police due to fears of Arab violence. Despite information received by the police of calls on Facebook to 'Stop the settlers from walking to the Western Wall', Jerusalem Police District Commander Yoram Halevi decided not to prevent the traditional event from taking place, and gave the go-ahead.

Event organizers and Woman in Green headed co-founders Nadia Matar and Yehudit Katzover praised the decision."It is brave, moral, and the obvious thing to do" they said "It shows that the police do not submit to terrorism. Any place that is threatened by terrorism should be strengthened and protected by the police."

The evening started with a joint reading of 'Eicha' (Lamentations) in Independence Park, and continued with the participants marching around the Old City walls up to the Lions Gate, where speeches were given by Deputy Defense Minister MK Eli Ben Dahan (Jewish Home), MK Yehuda Glick (Likud), and Yishai Fleisher, International Spokesman for the Jewish Community of Hevron.

MK Glick, a noted Temple Mount activist, focused his speech on the recent terror attacks that rocked Israel. "This past year, the police have paid a very high price. Five policemen were killed here" he said. "We've gotten to the root of everything, the Temple Mount"

Glick noted the sharp increase of Jewish visitors on the Temple Mount. calling it a miracle, along with the re-settlement of Judea and Samaria saying that "The IDF can defeat its enemies in battle, but those who give them the power to win are the people tonight, mothers and children who are putting facts on the ground."

Deputy Defense Minister Eli Ben Dahan echoed Glick's remarks, saying that "everyone who came here tonight proved with his feet that we want the Temple back - and quickly."

Ben Dahan also called on the government to make Jewish prayer possible on the Temple Mount.

"It cannot be that everyone is to pray here except Jews," he said.




JLB
Click to expand...

If they're going to build a third temple over there, then it seems to me that something is going to have to happen to the dome of the rock. That's on the temple site as I understand it. Do you think that it's a good bet that it's going to be destroyed somehow?
 
The so-called temple site. In 70ad Jerusalem and the temple was so levelled and plundered save a few random structures that anyone who returned would have never even recognised it was a city, not sure how anyone would know where the temple once stood from that historical reference.
 
Edward said:
If they're going to build a third temple over there, then it seems to me that something is going to have to happen to the dome of the rock. That's on the temple site as I understand it. Do you think that it's a good bet that it's going to be destroyed somehow?
Click to expand...


I believe something SHOULD be done with the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque...they should be destroyed.

As for the building of the third Temple, the Bible says it will be built, and it WILL be built. I leave it to God to guide the building of the Temple according to His will. God is in control.

I don't care where it will be built, but my belief is that the first Temple was located south of the Dome of the Rock. Either at the very edge of what is today the southern retaining wall, or a little further south in the City of David.
 
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