Pizza
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Exactly.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
The Holy Spirit Does Not Guide You Into All Truth!
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ezra
Member
Holy Spirit/Ghost spirit of truth /the anointing /the comforter are all the same.. i been trying to study up on this and i am still looking at more info . let me say i still stand he does guide us into all truth but we /or has been left out { He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.} we also know HE is the still small voice .this is what
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers has to say into all the truth. The words do not mean that the Holy Spirit will fully guide them into truth, but that He will be their guide into the fulness of truth. The word rendered "guide," occurs again in Matthew 15:14; Luke 6:39; Revelation 7:17; and metaphorically, as here, in Acts 8:31. A comparison of these passages will show that its meaning is "to point out the way," "to lead one on his way." The fulness of truth is for the disciples an unknown territory. They are spiritually as blind men, feeling after the truth, but not able to see it. The Spirit of Truth will take them by the hand, and, step by step, as they have strength to follow, will guide them into the territory, and unfold to them the treasures it contains. The promise has a special meaning for the disciples to whom it was spoken; but it holds good for every disciple who seeks to know the truth. We may pray,--without doubt that the prayer is in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and without doubt that it will be answered--
For he shall not speak of himself.--Comp. Notes on John 5:19; John 7:17-18. The Holy Spirit's power to guide into the truth depends upon the fact that He, like the Son Himself, will represent to the world the eternal truth of God. He, too, is subordinated to the Father, and His work is to seek the glory of Him that sent Him. (Comp., on the other hand, John 8:44, where the essence of the lie is that the devil speaketh of his own.) this is just one man comments the big debate is on Church Doctrine who holds the truth and who does not .
once again the big Question what is the truth ? adam clarke says it like this
He will guide you - He will consider your feeble infant state; and, as a father leads his child by the hand, so will the Holy Spirit lead and guide you.
The Vulgate, and some copies of the Itala, read, He will Teach you all truth; but this and more is implied in the word ὁδηγησει, he will lead; besides, this reading is not acknowledged by any Greek MS.
He shall not speak of himself - He shall teach nothing contrary to what I have taught you:
i like how peter wrote this 2 peter chapter 1
3 His divine power(holy spurt) hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him that hath called us to glory and virtue
for some odd reason this is not drawing much attention. i do hope this will continue in healthy discussion . it has challenged me in the way i have thought or maybe i just took it as just truth
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers has to say into all the truth. The words do not mean that the Holy Spirit will fully guide them into truth, but that He will be their guide into the fulness of truth. The word rendered "guide," occurs again in Matthew 15:14; Luke 6:39; Revelation 7:17; and metaphorically, as here, in Acts 8:31. A comparison of these passages will show that its meaning is "to point out the way," "to lead one on his way." The fulness of truth is for the disciples an unknown territory. They are spiritually as blind men, feeling after the truth, but not able to see it. The Spirit of Truth will take them by the hand, and, step by step, as they have strength to follow, will guide them into the territory, and unfold to them the treasures it contains. The promise has a special meaning for the disciples to whom it was spoken; but it holds good for every disciple who seeks to know the truth. We may pray,--without doubt that the prayer is in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and without doubt that it will be answered--
For he shall not speak of himself.--Comp. Notes on John 5:19; John 7:17-18. The Holy Spirit's power to guide into the truth depends upon the fact that He, like the Son Himself, will represent to the world the eternal truth of God. He, too, is subordinated to the Father, and His work is to seek the glory of Him that sent Him. (Comp., on the other hand, John 8:44, where the essence of the lie is that the devil speaketh of his own.) this is just one man comments the big debate is on Church Doctrine who holds the truth and who does not .
once again the big Question what is the truth ? adam clarke says it like this
He will guide you - He will consider your feeble infant state; and, as a father leads his child by the hand, so will the Holy Spirit lead and guide you.
The Vulgate, and some copies of the Itala, read, He will Teach you all truth; but this and more is implied in the word ὁδηγησει, he will lead; besides, this reading is not acknowledged by any Greek MS.
He shall not speak of himself - He shall teach nothing contrary to what I have taught you:
i like how peter wrote this 2 peter chapter 1
3 His divine power(holy spurt) hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him that hath called us to glory and virtue
for some odd reason this is not drawing much attention. i do hope this will continue in healthy discussion . it has challenged me in the way i have thought or maybe i just took it as just truth
JohnDB
Member
Here's a thought...
If I started hearing voices from God in my head....I'm checking myself into a mental hospital. Don't need another shooting.
But why does the Holy Spirit need to speak audibly? God has never needed to before to get my attention or make it clear what He wants. Especially when there is so much information available to us to read and study.
Why couldn't God just direct us to certain books and research? Grease the skids for the books and lectures He really wants us to hear. Surely that wouldn't be even difficult for God.
So in the end... maybe God doesn't limit Himself or the Holy Spirit...and considering that God is perfectly efficient in His use of power... maybe God can use anthropologist, history buff, geologist, and literature majors to get his truths across.
If I started hearing voices from God in my head....I'm checking myself into a mental hospital. Don't need another shooting.
But why does the Holy Spirit need to speak audibly? God has never needed to before to get my attention or make it clear what He wants. Especially when there is so much information available to us to read and study.
Why couldn't God just direct us to certain books and research? Grease the skids for the books and lectures He really wants us to hear. Surely that wouldn't be even difficult for God.
So in the end... maybe God doesn't limit Himself or the Holy Spirit...and considering that God is perfectly efficient in His use of power... maybe God can use anthropologist, history buff, geologist, and literature majors to get his truths across.
ezra
Member
the holy spirit speaks to our heart problem is whose voice are we listening to
Pizza
Member
THISSeems to me it's about humility. We have the Holy Spirit to guide us into truth. However it would indeed be pretty arrogant to assume we have it 100% correct, especially given human interpretation.
Perhaps we could all do with a dose of humility. I'm not much of a fan of people calling into question others' salvation because they have a different interpretation, especially of non-salvational issues.
Jim Parker
Member
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
I think the main thing that is going on is that the verse is taken out of its context.
(A) There were no chapters and verses in the original scriptures. The insertion of chapter and verse numbers in the 1500s accomplished two things:
(1) They made passages easier to find.
(2) The improperly broke complete thoughts up into little segments which untrained readers assumed were complete thoughts and, as a result, came up with all kinds of "interesting" interpretations.
(B) IN CONTEXT, the Lord was speaking to His apostles who would be responsible to transmit the Gospel to the rest of the world. THEY needed to be guided into all truth so that they could communicate it to the rest of the world. AS of that point in time, they were still confused. At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit made all things clear to the approximate 120 people in the upper room.
The error, as I see it, is that people assume that (1) they are actually intimately in tune with the Holy Spirit and (2) that that piece of what Jesus was saying to His apostles means that He was saying it to all the world for all times.
The evidence that I may be correct is the 10s of thousands of denominations, sects, and isms which all claim to have the truly true truth as infallibly revealed to them by the Holy Spirit.
So it seems to me.
iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)
DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.
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Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
Well totally agree! This is exactly how I see it. I took a different route but what you've outlined here is exactly how that "verse" should be looked at.
Jim Parker
Member
Cool!
Wannagetabeer?
Paul said each man builds on the foundato
If the Bible is true, then the Spirit will lead us to understand the Bible. As Jesus' teaching is true, he will make us understand his teaching. As God is true, he will give us the knowledge of God. Also he will declare what is to come ie. the gift of prophecy
If the Bible is true, then the Spirit will lead us to understand the Bible. As Jesus' teaching is true, he will make us understand his teaching. As God is true, he will give us the knowledge of God. Also he will declare what is to come ie. the gift of prophecy
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Just because the whole world has gone astray is no excuse for not reading the Bible and saying the Spirit is not at work in the sons of God.
Ok - we have a verse that says the Spirit of truth "will guide" us into all truth.
Now if I am supposing I am a Christian and God gave us the Scriptures, I have to logically figure the verse is correct, but my understanding might not be. If that is the case, I could be confused. I could be saying "what's going on". But If I am saying that, then the Holy Spirit has not yet come into my life like I need Him to do. I have to conclude that. But If I am a Christian, that could be true for others Christians also. And if that is the case, then it would only make sense that all Christians did not agree on everything.
So, could it be that not all 'Christians' are listing to the Holy Spirit "speak what He hears"?
The Galatians were an early group of Christians, and to them it was written, Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you; did you receive the Spirit by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
So Christian don't always listen to the Spirit!!!
Now what is "all truth"?
Jn 14:6 Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth,
So then the truth is not things, but the person of Jesus Christ. Thus knowing "all truth" is knowing Jesus Christ and all He has to say to you! And if the Holy Spirit is not speaking on His own initiative but as He hears He speaks, and if the Holy Spirit hears the words which belong to the Jesus Christ and speaks them to you, then the Holy Spirit is speaking "all truth". However if a person is not listening to the Holy Spirit like they should, and we already showed Christians do not always do that, then they don't have all the words that "Truth" (Jesus Christ) has to say to them. And if they don't or rarely do actually hear from the Lord but instead are leaning on their own understanding, then they might be thinking that know "all truth" meaning knowing everything instead of living by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
In fact, isn't that the exactly what Paul was trying to get at with the Galatians?
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
Only in part. We don't have all Truth, we only know in part. We never have had all Truth and never will. As for the Spirit leading us to understand the Bible, I agree. The problem is all Christians think with their brain too and if they think it, they assume that thinking came from God. Which is why we have a multitude of different beliefs (and have had from the beginning) This is the point of the OP.
If it was God's intention that we'd know all truth then we'd know it. We don't know all truth because that's not what God promised. We know in part. And even what we think we know is flawed.
No one has a perfect theology. Only man who ever did was Jesus. No one before him has and no one after him has. If you disagree, show me that person.
Depends on God. He hardens the heart of whomever he wills; it's for his purpose. That's not to say we can not know the truth. Indeed everyone who is of the truth hears his voice and
John 14:17
even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.
John 14:17
even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.
I think you're making an issue out of nothing. Of course we're not God having perfect knowledge, but God does give us gifts so that we can know the truth and discern the truth.
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
Yes and I believe all this. But I don't think it means what we think it means. That's the point of the OP. We have to be careful assuming that what we believe (on a particular thing - the nature of hell for example or the place of baptism in a believers life) is from God and not simply from our own bias or learning. We see through a glass dimly and we ought to approach truth with caution. Some things are slam dunks: Jesus is God; We are saved by faith - it's a gift from God and not earned; but some things aren't so clear. There are a variety of "understandings" when it comes to things of the faith. But only one Truth. We will never know all Truth her on earth. The Bible is pretty clear on that and experience verifies this fact.
Does knowing "all truth" mean knowing everything or knowing the Lord?
If the Lord is "The Truth" then it is knowing the Lord. Thus knowing all truth would be living by every word that came out of His mouth, not knowing everything!
We read where Jesus said He was the truth, but we don't believe that, we believe that truth is knowing what actually happens instead of knowing the person that knows what actually happens!
So we don't have understanding! We don't fully understanding that we don't know and will never know what is really happening! If we did we would seek the voice of God and do only what He says, but we all lack that understanding.
As for thinking what we think came from God, isn't that a direct result of not listening to Him enough. Do we practice listening to Him like we should? Or are we dull of hearing, because we don't practice seeking and listening to Him?
Heb 5:11 Concerning Him we have much to say, and it is heard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.
Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their sense trained to discern good and evil.
So maturity in Christ is also based upon regularly hearing the Lord. We need to practice that. We need to know Him as the truth. Truth is a person, the Son of the most high. He owns the words of God, which the Spirit speaks to you. And the Lord does "Speak". It is the snake that says "Did God really say." So how is our discernment of spirits?
So as for the person that has perfect theology; that person is Jesus Christ, whom can be heard from!!! But who is willing to listen? And how is it that a Christian supposedly know Jesus Christ and asks, "what person has perfect theology?" Surely, if they truly know Jesus Christ, they know His theology is perfect, even if our understanding isn't. Surely they know He is the Truth!!!
Is 1:2 Listen
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
Knowing the Lord is possible because of the Spirit. Knowing all that can be known as God knows it is never going to happen this side of Heaven. We know in part and that includes fully understanding all of God's word. In some cases, we believe we know the truth of a thing, we could be right on that belief, but have no way of fully knowing that we're right. We believe. If God revealed all truth to us then there would be no divisions. As it is, there are not only divisions but there are people even in a small Bible with varying beliefs. The explanation isn't that "Well they don't have the Spirit." which some have said to me. No, it's because we are flawed and we see in part and I believe that this is by God's hand (so that we struggle to learn and keep struggling).
Jim Parker
Member
I agree but, I didn't say that.
Sister Christian
Member
And every now and then another precious child dies because they were born to Christian Scientist parents. Their child died because they thought all that was ailing their child needed was prayer. Lots and lots of prayer.
I think God inspired people to become doctors so that they could work as His answer to peoples prayer.
Which is why I'd never make it as a Christian Scientist.
We are indwelt with the Holy Spirit when we are saved, Baptized. I think the Father bestows that blessing upon us at his discretion in either moment. However, I also believe as we live in holiness , in the word, we are further filled with the Holy Spirit. It's like a seedling that enters and as we grow in the faith, we learn to release our attentions to this world and trust and listen to the Holy Spirit to guide us. And as we do that we are filled, the Spirit blossoms, into our sense of being more and more. It is a process.