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We are not saved by faith alone as Martin Luther inferred..... here is the Biblical evidence

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Open question to all Theological inquirers:

The one being sick answered Him, “Sir, I do not have a man to put me into the pool when the water is stirred-up. But while I am going, another goes down before me”. Jesus says to him, “Arise, pick up your cot and walk!” And immediately the man became healthy, and picked up his cot and was walking. Now it was a Sabbath on that day.​
John 5:7-9 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 5:7-9&version=DLNT

Was this man healed immediately or did he have to make it into the pool, either by diligently struggling to make it there himself or by other men helping him make it there)?
 
wondering said:
P.S.
I've had it said to me, in plain words, that once we're saved it's not NECESSARY to obey God because Jesus will cover for us.
Click to expand...
Yes I agree the biggest problem of saved by grace alone through faith alone through Christ alone doctrine is we believers may end up lazy and complacent. " I'm already saved , why should I really bother about anything else "
But friends that attitude is dangerous . We are soldiers of Christ's kingdom and need to proactively share the gospel. We need to do the Will of God before ours as Jesus says in Matthew 7: 21-26. Why does He say in unequivocal terms that not one of us believers will enter the kingdom of heaven UNLESS we do God's will? To me it's crystal clear we as believers must, through our lives, reflect Christ . And that can only be done through diligent obedience . In one line I wish to say many Churches have minimized the importance of obedience. Many even judge non believers and Catholics. It deeply hurts and disturbs me ---- this judgmental attitude. When we are not sure of our own salvation , we often end up judging others. Only God knows, and the Lamb, who will make it to heaven and who will not ( See Revelation)
We should be loving and not judgmental for the Lord Jesus warned "do not judge lest you be judged .....and the measure you use shall be used against you"
 
WIP said:
Me too, which is where I have issues.
Click to expand...
Sure.
And what about new Christians who are reading along or hearing this stuff in person?
What do they do with this information?
You and I may understand what that person is spèaking of ... we do out of love --- but a new Christian certainly could misunderstand.

We can only do our best
and Jesus will do the rest

However, we DO have to do our best.
 
whatgoeshere? said:
I am newly arrived I do admit this. I hope that it isn't standard here that there are people who hope in their conversations started in these religious forums to convince us that Jesus words are not correct.

Martin did not first teach this, that we are saved by faith alone. Our Lord did. John 3:16. John 3:36.
Click to expand...
Why did Jesus then warn repeatedly ( Matthew 7: 18-26) that not one of us Christians will enter His kingdom of heaven unless we do the Will of God ? Like Jesus always did including and in fact most pertinently at the time of crucifixion.... can the cime not pass yet not as I will but as you will Father .....:sad
What did Jesus say the rich man ? See my friends salvation has been made easy not by the Bible but by some interpretations. Salvation will occur, if at all, ONLY AFTER the Lamb and God test each person's works with fire. Please read Revelation for that. My question go those churches that are issuing Salvation guarantee is why is Jesus going to judge our works when we are already saved . The answer is nobody is saved unless the Lamb examines each person's works and if and only if our names appear in the Lamb's book of Life we will be saved .... else not
 
Free said:
Never mind. You have once again not bothered to answer my post; that's four or five times now. You are intent on just repeating your position and not answering others. You are just too discourteous to bother discussing this anymore.
Click to expand...
Free,
You can believe what you will of me.
But I'm not a discourteous person and I will not accept that you label me as such on an open thread.

I've continued this conversation and it's YOU who is ending it because I asked YOU what YOU think being good means.

Now, should I say that YOU are discourteous because you refuse to answer me?
 
Free said:
Never mind. You have once again not bothered to answer my post; that's four or five times now. You are intent on just repeating your position and not answering others. You are just too discourteous to bother discussing this anymore.
Click to expand...
And what OTHERS???
YOU are the only one who has not understood me.
 
wondering said:
Sure.
And what about new Christians who are reading along or hearing this stuff in person?
What do they do with this information?
You and I may understand what that person is spèaking of ... we do out of love --- but a new Christian certainly could misunderstand.

We can only do our best
and Jesus will do the rest

However, we DO have to do our best.
Click to expand...
I fully agree We HAVE to do our best
And Jesus will do the rest!!!
Most accurately put!
Awesome , clap clap. That's exactly what I believe is the message of the Savior of the world , our very own Lord Jesus Christ :)
 
wondering said:
Free,
You can believe what you will of me.
But I'm not a discourteous person and I will not accept that you label me as such on an open thread.

I've continued this conversation and it's YOU who is ending it because I asked YOU what YOU think being good means.

Now, should I say that YOU are discourteous because you refuse to answer me?
Click to expand...
I'm so so glad I read your message . Thank you thank you thank you . I want to ETCH your words on my heart and mind so that I may always DO my best and REMEMBER that Christ will do the rest :)
 
Rajesh Sahu said:
Yes I agree the biggest problem of saved by grace alone through faith alone through Christ alone doctrine is we believers may end up lazy and complacent. " I'm already saved , why should I really bother about anything else "
But friends that attitude is dangerous . We are soldiers of Christ's kingdom and need to proactively share the gospel. We need to do the Will of God before ours as Jesus says in Matthew 7: 21-26. Why does He say in unequivocal terms that not one of us believers will enter the kingdom of heaven UNLESS we do God's will? To me it's crystal clear we as believers must, through our lives, reflect Christ . And that can only be done through diligent obedience . In one line I wish to say many Churches have minimized the importance of obedience. Many even judge non believers and Catholics. It deeply hurts and disturbs me ---- this judgmental attitude. When we are not sure of our own salvation , we often end up judging others. Only God knows, and the Lamb, who will make it to heaven and who will not ( See Revelation)
We should be loving and not judgmental for the Lord Jesus warned "do not judge lest you be judged .....and the measure you use shall be used against you"
Click to expand...
Perfectly said.
:salute
 
Rajesh Sahu said:
I'm so so glad I read your message . Thank you thank you thank you . I want to ETCH your words on my heart and mind so that I may always DO my best and REMEMBER that Christ will do the rest :)
Click to expand...
I believe part of the problem is that persons are indoctrinated by their church.
Then when they read the bible, they only pay attention to what they like.
For instance, many times those against good works will post this verse:
Romans 8:1
"There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."
NASB

It sounds wonderful, and, indeed it's true. But, unfortunately not the way these folk would like it to be. Paul is many times misquoted.

They forget the very next verses:
Romans 8:2-9 and even beyond...

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him

Yes, those verses are often ignored because they do not agree with the easy believers of Christianity. This is a term that has been coined for those who believe works are not necessary. NOWHERE in the N.T. do any of the writers make this claim.

Jesus said He did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it.
To make it more COMPLETE. Not to abolish it.
He actually brought the Law up to the level of the heart.
But because we love Him, HIS yoke is easy and HIS burden is light.
Mathew 11:30
 
For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with what measure you measure, it will be measured to you.​
Matthew 7:2 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 7:2&version=DLNT

If you’re on the path of measuring your salvation by your goodness (see the example Jesus uses in v21-23), you’ll get just that Judgment. It’s a narrow gate to enter through asking Jesus. And only opened by Him.

“Be asking, and it will be given to you; be seeking, and you will find; be knocking, and it will be opened to you.​
Matthew 7:7 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 7:7&version=DLNT
 
Still bizarre that people think you don't get saved by faith and not by works lest any man boast,and if a person says contrary then we are called lazy,though we do works.
There is only one way today to be saved and that's to accept Jesus as saviour and humbly and sincerely ask for your soul to be saved believing wholly all that Jesus did for us,this of course doesn't mean that we are to be idle we are still to do works through the holy spirit.
 
that fizzy guy said:
Still bizarre that people think you don't get saved by faith and not by works lest any man boast,and if a person says contrary then we are called lazy,though we do works.
There is only one way today to be saved and that's to accept Jesus as saviour and humbly and sincerely ask for your soul to be saved believing wholly all that Jesus did for us.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the forum.

Who said we don't get saved by faith?
I guess I was right in my post no. 171.
We only read and understand what we want to understand.

If you do works, why are you afraid to say so??
You're referring to
Ephesians 2:8

What do you say about Ephesians 2:10?
 
wondering said:
believe part of the problem is that persons are indoctrinated by their church.
Then when they read the bible, they only pay attention to what they like.
For instance, many times those against good works will post this verse:
Romans 8:1
"There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."
NASB

It sounds wonderful, and, indeed it's true. But, unfortunately not the way these folk would like it to be. Paul is many times misquoted.
Click to expand...
Not only that but the verse doesn't end where you ended it with a period. The actual texts has a comma so the thought continues with this.

"who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." NKJV

What does it mean to not walk according to the flesh? In my mind it means to live a life worthy of the gift, not to achieve salvation but because the gift has already been received.
 
wondering said:
Sure.
And what about new Christians who are reading along or hearing this stuff in person?
What do they do with this information?
You and I may understand what that person is spèaking of ... we do out of love --- but a new Christian certainly could misunderstand.

We can only do our best
and Jesus will do the rest

However, we DO have to do our best.
Click to expand...
So you do believe your works play a role in ultimately being justified in the end. And since you believe the elect believer can lose his salvation proves that you do. Justification by faith alone is essential Christian Doctrine. And if one doesn’t hold to this He in some way believes his works play a role in his salvation and justification. Antinomians and the self righteous law keepers are in the same boat. They both deny the gospel of Christ! There’s one gospel not another. And to teach another is to be anathema as Paul states in Galatians. If a person RELYS on his works in any degree to be justified, he’s a debtor to keep the whole law. And by doing so he makes void the cross, nullifies the grace of God and has fallen from grace. And place themselves under the curse of the law. The righteousness of Christ justifies and that received by faith alone
 
Rajesh Sahu said:
I fully agree We HAVE to do our best
And Jesus will do the rest!!!
Most accurately put!
Awesome , clap clap. That's exactly what I believe is the message of the Savior of the world , our very own Lord Jesus Christ :)
Click to expand...
How is one justified before God? Is it Christ’s righteousness or mans works of obedience?
 
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