We are not saved by faith alone as Martin Luther inferred..... here is the Biblical evidence

wondering said:

Welcome to the forum.

Who said we don't get saved by faith?
I guess I was right in my post no. 171.
We only read and understand what we want to understand.

If you do works, why are you afraid to say so??
You're referring to
Ephesians 2:8

What do you say about Ephesians 2:10?

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uhhh I was speaking in general that on other Christian sites people discuss this topic all the time,and my view is on the side of faith saves and salvation doesn't come about by works,but when someone says this people call you lazy or say "you believe we don't need works" which I never say,we all through Christ will do works for him,but it's not to "maintain our salvation" it is through being saved that we do so,sorry for the confusion.

WIP said:

No, I think you're misunderstanding. When you say only the Father is good, then you are by default singling out the Son, Jesus, as not good. God is good and God, being the trinity in completion, includes Jesus as well as the Father and Holy Spirit. They are all good according to how I understand Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19. I think the use of the word "God" in the text is intentional.

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People seem to forget.....in context,

A man ran up and knelt before Jesus.....and called Jesus “Good Teacher,”. The man had no clue Jesus was God. Jesus replied back as a teach would. Jesus wasn't trying to tell the man that He was or wasn't God.

wondering said:

Welcome to the forum.

Who said we don't get saved by faith?
I guess I was right in my post no. 171.
We only read and understand what we want to understand.

If you do works, why are you afraid to say so??
You're referring to
Ephesians 2:8

What do you say about Ephesians 2:10?

Click to expand...

And as for your "theory" it doesn't apply to me,I don't selectively read and selectively understand,I have read the bible all the way through once to write a composition in the hopes of becoming a Christians children teacher,and due to this the holy spirit can now bring to reminder scriptures as well as help me understand scriptures,I'm well aware that if you read multiple scriptures without reading others then you can come to different conclusions by taking scriptures out of context,and I for one don't simply "parrot"what I have been taught,I study out what I learn to be sure it's true.

Cygnus said:

People seem to forget.....in context,

A man ran up and knelt before Jesus.....and called Jesus “Good Teacher,”. The man had no clue Jesus was God. Jesus replied back as a teach would. Jesus wasn't trying to tell the man that He was or wasn't God.

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Jesus' question, "Why do you call me good?" I believe went deeper than the surface of the text. I believe, like peter, the man may have experienced divine revelation like Peter did when we said Jesus was the Messiah and Jesus by His question was acknowledging His own divinity..

Rajesh Sahu said:

Why did Jesus then warn repeatedly ( Matthew 7: 18-26) that not one of us Christians will enter His kingdom of heaven unless we do the Will of God ? Like Jesus always did including and in fact most pertinently at the time of crucifixion.... can the cime not pass yet not as I will but as you will Father .....
What did Jesus say the rich man ? See my friends salvation has been made easy not by the Bible but by some interpretations. Salvation will occur, if at all, ONLY AFTER the Lamb and God test each person's works with fire. Please read Revelation for that. My question go those churches that are issuing Salvation guarantee is why is Jesus going to judge our works when we are already saved . The answer is nobody is saved unless the Lamb examines each person's works and if and only if our names appear in the Lamb's book of Life we will be saved .... else not

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Ah, a member of the Roman's catholica and believer in their created purgatory.
How unfortunate.

Rajesh Sahu said:

Why did Jesus then warn repeatedly ( Matthew 7: 18-26) that not one of us Christians will enter His kingdom of heaven unless we do the Will of God ? Like Jesus always did including and in fact most pertinently at the time of crucifixion.... can the cime not pass yet not as I will but as you will Father .....
What did Jesus say the rich man ? See my friends salvation has been made easy not by the Bible but by some interpretations. Salvation will occur, if at all, ONLY AFTER the Lamb and God test each person's works with fire. Please read Revelation for that. My question go those churches that are issuing Salvation guarantee is why is Jesus going to judge our works when we are already saved . The answer is nobody is saved unless the Lamb examines each person's works and if and only if our names appear in the Lamb's book of Life we will be saved .... else not

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Nope. Not that way at all.

1 Cor 3: 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Rajesh Sahu said:

I fully agree We HAVE to do our best
And Jesus will do the rest!!!
Most accurately put!
Awesome , clap clap. That's exactly what I believe is the message of the Savior of the world , our very own Lord Jesus Christ

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What if your best is no works? Will Jesus do the rest?

What if your best is a little bit of work? Will Jesus do the rest?

What if your best is a lot of work? Will Jesus do the rest?

Rajesh Sahu said:

DO my best and REMEMBER that Christ will do the rest

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Is there a bible verse for this? It kinda sounds like it was made up.

WIP said:

Not only that but the verse doesn't end where you ended it with a period. The actual texts has a comma so the thought continues with this.

"who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." NKJV

What does it mean to not walk according to the flesh? In my mind it means to live a life worthy of the gift, not to achieve salvation but because the gift has already been received.

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Hi WIP,
We don't achieve salvation by living a life worth of the gift.
We live a life worthy of the gift BECAUSE we are saved.
Exactly as you've stated.

I'm not a legalist or pharisee or work-oriented person.
But I do not, and will never understand, those who say that works are not necessary or that Jesus did it all and so we have nothing to do.

Jesus spoke about the Kingdom of God on earth more than anything else. He came to teach us a good way to live --- how to make the world a better place --- how to live so as to please God.

How is that achieved without doing good works?
(rhetorical)

that fizzy guy said:

uhhh I was speaking in general that on other Christian sites people discuss this topic all the time,and my view is on the side of faith saves and salvation doesn't come about by works,but when someone says this people call you lazy or say "you believe we don't need works" which I never say,we all through Christ will do works for him,but it's not to "maintain our salvation" it is through being saved that we do so,sorry for the confusion.

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All of which is in the scriptures Jesus died to deliver and seal for all time in this world of flaws and fixations. That will not stop those who wish to reword his truth because it does not suit.
The Holy Spirit guides us into all truth. We are saved by faith in the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ, who's blood covers all sins in those who were once sinners. Until they came to him in faith and trust. Led by the Holy Spirit as God intends. And once repented and saved through the sacrifice of Christ, God does no longer hold our sins against us. Ever. Because those who are in Christ, in the anointed ones covenant measured and defined by God, we do not sin.
Piecemeal deliverance, my grandmother called it. When people would try to take the passages in God's word and use them to cover their own failings, thinking they can be in the world and in Christ at the same time. Telling us the Bible doesn't actually say what it says, and it doesn't mean what we think it means, rarely engenders open discussion among the faithful in the body of our Lord. Because the initiator of the verbiage was not there to begin with.
Television types are the most public spectacle reporting that truth.
Remember brother, when you are in Christ the world will hate you, me, us, as it did, and does, Him.

But hate only lasts a lifetime. And then there is eternity of regret. Wherein the faithful in their efforts to impart, "we told you so", no longer have to speak. Because it is over and done with.And falsehoods don't burn off. They just burn.

MCoop said:

So you do believe your works play a role in ultimately being justified in the end. And since you believe the elect believer can lose his salvation proves that you do. Justification by faith alone is essential Christian Doctrine. And if one doesn’t hold to this He in some way believes his works play a role in his salvation and justification. Antinomians and the self righteous law keepers are in the same boat. They both deny the gospel of Christ! There’s one gospel not another. And to teach another is to be anathema as Paul states in Galatians. If a person RELYS on his works in any degree to be justified, he’s a debtor to keep the whole law. And by doing so he makes void the cross, nullifies the grace of God and has fallen from grace. And place themselves under the curse of the law. The righteousness of Christ justifies and that received by faith alone

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Absolutely works play a role in my salvation so as to remain justified till the end.
Jesus said so, not me...
Mathew 16:24
Jesus said to take up our cross and follow Him.

Mathew 16:27
Jesus said that He will come with the angels and recompense every man according to his DEEDS.

Jesus was teaching as one with authority. Mathew 7:29
Should we not pay attention to what He says?

Mathew 7:23
Jesus will declare to those who PRACTICED LAWLESSNESS , "Depart from Me."

Mathew 7:26
Jesus said that everyone who hears His words and does not act on them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

That sounds to me like works are a part of my faith and salvation.

Could you please show me where Jesus said that all we need to do is believe in Him and we would be saved? He NEVER says this.

Maybe you're practicing a different gospel?

Paul agrees with Jesus and said our works are also part of our salvation.

wondering said:

Could you please show me where Jesus said that all we need to do is believe in Him and we would be saved?

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John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

wondering said:

Paul agrees with Jesus and said our works are also part of our salvation.

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I would say our works are a result of our salvation. A by-product.
We don't "work" to stay saved....We work to glorify God. Some people work harder than others.

MCoop said:

How is one justified before God? Is it Christ’s righteousness or mans works of obedience?

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If you don't obey Jesus, how could He cover you with His righteousness?

Cygnus said:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

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John said that, not Jesus.
I'll help you.
There is ONE place where Jesus says we have to believe.
John 6:29
Jesus Himself said that believing in Him is the work of God.
What does it mean to BELIEVE in Jesus?
What does believe mean in the Greek...
Does it mean to believe with the mind or with the heart...
If we believe with the heart, don't we do as the one we believe in instructs us?

that fizzy guy said:

uhhh I was speaking in general that on other Christian sites people discuss this topic all the time,and my view is on the side of faith saves and salvation doesn't come about by works,but when someone says this people call you lazy or say "you believe we don't need works" which I never say,we all through Christ will do works for him,but it's not to "maintain our salvation" it is through being saved that we do so,sorry for the confusion.

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It's discussed all over.
Faith saves us. But there are a lot of "IF's" in the N.T.
You know very well that there are those who say that works are not necessary.
This is carrying the concept of "faith only" too far.

Luther may have started the reformation, but Jesus started the Christian faith.
He's the one we're to obey, not anyone on earth who does not understand this.

that fizzy guy said:

And as for your "theory" it doesn't apply to me,I don't selectively read and selectively understand,I have read the bible all the way through once to write a composition in the hopes of becoming a Christians children teacher,and due to this the holy spirit can now bring to reminder scriptures as well as help me understand scriptures,I'm well aware that if you read multiple scriptures without reading others then you can come to different conclusions by taking scriptures out of context,and I for one don't simply "parrot"what I have been taught,I study out what I learn to be sure it's true.

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Well amen to that.
However, if you're going to teach children you should be studying theology.
They're going to ask you some pretty rough questions --- better than some adults ask.

It's good how you read the bible, we still do end up with our own idea though, don't we?
Who else would some believe in eternal security and not others.
Why else would some believe in free will and not others.

I wish you the best with teaching kids. We need more like you; especially young men.

Cygnus said:

Nope. Not that way at all.

1 Cor 3: 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

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Who is the builder?
This verse has always intrigued me and there are at least 3 different explanations for it.

Cygnus said:

What if your best is no works? Will Jesus do the rest?

What if your best is a little bit of work? Will Jesus do the rest?

What if your best is a lot of work? Will Jesus do the rest?

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Sorry if I'm responding to you.
God knows our heart.
He knows us well.
The answer to all of the above is Yes because God knows.

Cygnus said:

I would say our works are a result of our salvation. A by-product.
We don't "work" to stay saved....We work to glorify God. Some people work harder than others.

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Not necessarily disagreeing but this brings up a question for me. What happens when one does nothing to glorify God? By "does nothing" I mean makes no effort whatsoever, continues to live in the world, and so forth.