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kiwidan said:
There is nothing that leads me to believe Jesus physically attacked or harmed anyone.
Click to expand...
There is nothing that leads me to believe Jesus did not physically attack or harm anyone. We just plain ol dont know.... But i would ask why bother the make the whip when flipping the tables would have done the job?
I think/believe He wacked'em .
We have this modern idea of assault....
Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
 
reba said:
There is nothing that leads me to believe Jesus did not physically attack or harm anyone. We just plain ol dont know.... But i would ask why bother the make the whip when flipping the tables would have done the job?
I think/believe He wacked'em .
We have this modern idea of assault....
Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Click to expand...
Amen!
 
barelohim said:
Shakespeare once wrote, : the whole world is a stage and we are merely players in it!:
There is little understanding amongst Christians, that the OT testament was just that, a play. All those in the OT were mere players in the plan of God. Every act was for our learning. For He knew that all those OT people were going to one place when they died,( save Enoch,Elijah) and that was the place of death. The place that Jesus had to go, to release all those that where held captive by death. All died, but all would be made alive IN CHRIST as He visited death for them all.... That is Gods love in action. What a plan!
Hebrews 11:
38 (of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves, and the holes of the earth.
39 And these all, having had witness borne to them through their faith, received not the promise,
40 God having provided some better thing concerning us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.
Click to expand...
I have heard a woman pastor say that Jesus went to Hell when he died on the cross. However, I've never heard her refer to a scripture that says that.

The old testament patriarchs and faithful to God our Father were in a sin/sacrificial system. They killed animals on an altar to let the blood debt pay for their transgressions of God's law. It was not Moses' law, it was God's law.
Jesus, when he died on a tree, was cursed. As the scriptures foretold of such a death. Jesus was the unblemished lamb of God. The final sacrifice, who's blood debt covered all sins the moment he perished there.
Jesus didn't die and go to Hell to save people. Jesus died so that his blood would be the final sacrifice, the propitiation for our sins, as God did promise.
 
whatgoeshere? said:
I have heard a woman pastor say that Jesus went to Hell when he died on the cross. However, I've never heard her refer to a scripture that says that.

The old testament patriarchs and faithful to God our Father were in a sin/sacrificial system. They killed animals on an altar to let the blood debt pay for their transgressions of God's law. It was not Moses' law, it was God's law.
Jesus, when he died on a tree, was cursed. As the scriptures foretold of such a death. Jesus was the unblemished lamb of God. The final sacrifice, who's blood debt covered all sins the moment he perished there.
Jesus didn't die and go to Hell to save people. Jesus died so that his blood would be the final sacrifice, the propitiation for our sins, as God did promise.
Click to expand...
Ephesians 4: 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, And gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things

1 Peter 3: 18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,
20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:

Jesus didn't go down into Hell, but in to that place of death. Wages of sin was death. He had no sin, so death couldn't hold Him as it did the rest.

Hmm a woman pastor. Well I'll leave that for another time..
 
barelohim said:
Ephesians 4: 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, And gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things

1 Peter 3: 18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,
20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:

Jesus didn't go down into Hell, but in to that place of death. Wages of sin was death. He had no sin, so death couldn't hold Him as it did the rest.

Hmm a woman pastor. Well I'll leave that for another time..
Click to expand...
Making a point about my other remarks. I mentioned woman pastor because that is the only person I've heard teach Jesus went to Hell after dying on the cross. It wasn't to imply any ill will toward women called to preach.

Have you read the Revelation of John as yet? How would Jesus be able to enter into Hell and raise up the dead when Hell is not yet opened?
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
-Revelation 20:12-15


If Jesus went to Hell after dying on the cross, how would he be able to tell the thief who knew him and was himself crucified beside our Lord for his crimes and that would be subject to Hell as that sinner, be told by our Lord that on that day he would be with Jesus in paradise?
Paradise is not Hell.
Those who come before Gods great white throne of judgement in the end times are judged and then Hell is opened to receive them. That time hasn't yet arrived.
 
whatgoeshere? said:
Making a point about my other remarks. I mentioned woman pastor because that is the only person I've heard teach Jesus went to Hell after dying on the cross. It wasn't to imply any ill will toward women called to preach.

Have you read the Revelation of John as yet? How would Jesus be able to enter into Hell and raise up the dead when Hell is not yet opened?
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
-Revelation 20:12-15


If Jesus went to Hell after dying on the cross, how would he be able to tell the thief who knew him and was himself crucified beside our Lord for his crimes and that would be subject to Hell as that sinner, be told by our Lord that on that day he would be with Jesus in paradise?
Paradise is not Hell.
Those who come before Gods great white throne of judgement in the end times are judged and then Hell is opened to receive them. That time hasn't yet arrived.
Click to expand...

That is why I said He went down into the place called "death", it is a place were those of the OT went, and Jesus went and preached to them, then took those that were caught in captivity to death, with Him to paradise. Those in paradise await the Judgement seat of Christ to be rewarded or not. Those since Christ, left in " death " await the white throne judgement.
Yes I have read the revelations many, many times. And I think of John who knew Jesus in the flesh, but when he saw Him when he was on the Isle of Patmos, he didn't recognize Him as the fleshly Jesus.

Have you read this scripture, " I forbid a woman to teach, or exercise authority over a man!" This doesn't mean women aren't to teach or be teachers, but the subject matter is not to be taught. A woman does not hold authority over the man. Now of all the five offices of ministry as gifts to the church, Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, and Teacher, only one can demonstrate authority over the men..... Guess which one?
 
my authority as staff admin :tongue

says start another thread about women preachers and keep it to scriptures :biggrin2
 
barelohim said:
Ephesians 4: 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, And gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things

1 Peter 3: 18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,
20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:

Jesus didn't go down into Hell, but in to that place of death. Wages of sin was death. He had no sin, so death couldn't hold Him as it did the rest.

Hmm a woman pastor. Well I'll leave that for another time..
Click to expand...
Jesus did not descend into Hell, He descended into Paradise and that is reported in the passage where Jesus told of the rich man and the poor man that died. (Luke 16:20-26) From Hell and Paradise were within sight of one another, it seems but the treatment was quite different.

One of the early Creeds and maybe more say Jesus descended it Hell but that is a sign of incomplete revelation. There is more important evidence in Matt. 27:50-53 we find what is perhaps the least taught passage of the First Resurrection. There are two more to occur but but they will be, at least the Second and Third Resurrections.

The un-preached Matthew passage shows that Jesus preached to the Old Testament Saints and led the or sent them to Heaven. I pray this helps your understanding.
 
th1b.taylor said:
Jesus did not descend into Hell, He descended into Paradise and that is reported in the passage where Jesus told of the rich man and the poor man that died. (Luke 16:20-26) From Hell and Paradise were within sight of one another, it seems but the treatment was quite different.

One of the early Creeds and maybe more say Jesus descended it Hell but that is a sign of incomplete revelation. There is more important evidence in Matt. 27:50-53 we find what is perhaps the least taught passage of the First Resurrection. There are two more to occur but but they will be, at least the Second and Third Resurrections.

The un-preached Matthew passage shows that Jesus preached to the Old Testament Saints and led the or sent them to Heaven. I pray this helps your understanding.
Click to expand...

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. Death is a place of holding as well as Hell/Hades Taylor.

John 5: 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice,
29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth on me, though he die, yet shall he live;
Rev 20: 5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Don't see anything concerning a third resurrection in the scriptures. Could it be you are "adding to the Word?"
 
barelohim said:
That is why I said He went down into the place called "death", it is a place were those of the OT went, and Jesus went and preached to them, then took those that were caught in captivity to death, with Him to paradise. Those in paradise await the Judgement seat of Christ to be rewarded or not. Those since Christ, left in " death " await the white throne judgement.
Yes I have read the revelations many, many times. And I think of John who knew Jesus in the flesh, but when he saw Him when he was on the Isle of Patmos, he didn't recognize Him as the fleshly Jesus.

Have you read this scripture, " I forbid a woman to teach, or exercise authority over a man!" This doesn't mean women aren't to teach or be teachers, but the subject matter is not to be taught. A woman does not hold authority over the man. Now of all the five offices of ministry as gifts to the church, Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, and Teacher, only one can demonstrate authority over the men..... Guess which one?
Click to expand...
We are all one in Christ. Meaning our race, ethnic identity, or sex, do not divide.
What writings in scripture support what you claim about Jesus preaching to those in deaths captivity and then taking them to paradise.
 
To whogoeshere........................
Ephesians 4: 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, And gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things

1 Peter 3: 18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,
20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
 
barelohim said:
To whogoeshere........................
Ephesians 4: 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, And gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things

1 Peter 3: 18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,
20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
Click to expand...
Now I see. Here. Abraham's Bosom
 
whatgoeshere? said:
We are all one in Christ. Meaning our race, ethnic identity, or sex, do not divide.
What writings in scripture support what you claim about Jesus preaching to those in deaths captivity and then taking them to paradise.
Click to expand...
Ephesians 4: 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, And gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things

1 Peter 3: 18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,
20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
 
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