judgement seat of Christ

Rollo Tamasi · Dec 10, 2017

Lot of catching up to do with this thread.
I only see one judgment, the final judgment.
Whether that be at the Great White Throne Judgment or Judgment Seat of Christ, and whether you think these are separate judgments or not, you will still only be at one judgment, the final judgment.
Scripture does not prove they are separate judgments.

In Revelation 20:15;, it says "If anyone's name was not found in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
That would indicate to me that some will be there and their names will be found in the Book of Life.
This is when we come before God our Father and Jesus says "he/she is one of mine"
You would then have your name found in the Book of Life.

Rollo Tamasi · Dec 10, 2017

wondering said:
Two judgements were confusing.
!!

What about this:
"It is appointed for man to die once, and then comes the judgement".
Hebrews 9:27

Any comment on that?

This is exactly true.
One judgment, different fates.

GodsGrace · Dec 10, 2017

Allen Wynne said:
This is exactly true.
One judgment, different fates.

That makes the most sense to me.

Papyrus_dust · Dec 10, 2017

Scripture does prove they are separate judgments.

Matthew 25:1-46
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me.......

Rollo Tamasi · Dec 10, 2017

Papyrus_dust said:
Scripture does prove they are separate judgments.

Matthew 25:1-46
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me.......

And any good Greek scholar/Christian scholar will tell you this is the final judgment.

ezra · Dec 10, 2017

for_his_glory said:
ezra, you are right as that is the only thing that matters. Any topic should be a friendly discussion of how and why we believe the way we do without it becoming a fighting match. I do enjoy getting into the deeper things of Gods word especially the book of Revelations as there is so much to learn there as it actually entails the whole Bible, OT and NT as it ties it all together.

i enjoy discussions exchanging beliefs agree not agree personally i believe in 2 resurrections you dont... no big deal north pulling a knife out and slitting your throat lol. some take it to a personnel level to be honest on Revelations i take a cautious approach .there is so many different teaching pre trib mid trib after the tribulation . so much seems to center around Israel then i think about north Korea Rev is about future present past . i need pure facts one thing for sure Jesus IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY . he his coming again the rest is in God plan and hands

Rollo Tamasi · Dec 10, 2017

Amen!

GodsGrace · Dec 10, 2017

ezra said:
i enjoy discussions exchanging beliefs agree not agree personally i believe in 2 resurrections you dont... no big deal north pulling a knife out and slitting your throat lol. some take it to a personnel level to be honest on Revelations i take a cautious approach .there is so many different teaching pre trib mid trib after the tribulation . so much seems to center around Israel then i think about north Korea Rev is about future present past . i need pure facts one thing for sure Jesus IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY . he his coming again the rest is in God plan and hands

Amen!!

for_his_glory · Dec 10, 2017

Jim Parker said:
Not so fast ... those who showed no mercy in the judgment described by Jesus at Mat 25:31-46 are sent to hell and hell is cast into the lake of fire with those condemned folks in it.

So it is very much about people.

iakov the fool

No, they are not sent to hell, but receive eternal damnation, Matthew 25:46, as they are cast into the lake of fire as their punishment, Rev 20:15. We have pretty much been taught all our life that hell is a bad place where the wicked go to when they die, but hell is just another word for the grave/pit that will be cast into the lake of fire along with death as these two are the second death meaning there will be no more need of either one.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance: Hell
Hebrew # 7585 Sheol, Hades, or the world of the dead, grave, hell, pit
Greek # 86 place of departed souls, grave, hell

John 5:28, 29 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

for_his_glory · Dec 10, 2017

duplicate

ezra · Dec 10, 2017

for_his_glory said:
We have pretty much been taught all our life that hell is a bad place where the wicked go to when they die

luke 16 the rich man

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
he then wanted to have somebody from the dead go warn his family ..certainly hell is not a pretty place nor is it the eternal lake of fire .

i dont find Christians in hell . i do see Christians in some type sleep with Christ.. till the Resurrection of the saints..i also will confess there many things about when exactly we go to heaven.. paul did write to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord :bible

reba · Dec 10, 2017

ezra said:
i enjoy discussions exchanging beliefs agree not agree personally i believe in 2 resurrections you dont... no big deal north pulling a knife out and slitting your throat lol. some take it to a personnel level to be honest on Revelations i take a cautious approach .there is so many different teaching pre trib mid trib after the tribulation . so much seems to center around Israel then i think about north Korea Rev is about future present past . i need pure facts one thing for sure Jesus IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY . he his coming again the rest is in God plan and hands

for_his_glory · Dec 10, 2017

th1b.taylor said:
You and I, both know, by now that we disagree on this Judgment issue but I have a question, if you please. Can you scripturally support your position on this issue in the face of the scriptures found in this link;
https://www.allaboutgod.com/bema-seat.htm

and the scriptures found here;
https://www.gotquestions.org/great-white-throne-judgment.html

I am not trying to do any more than to do any more than get into an intelligent discussion here. You and I are the same on our theology, as far as I can tell, but it is my opinion that you have forgotten the general rule of Hermeneutics, that the any scripture,passage of scripture or collection of scriptures cannot be fully understood without the light of all scripture shinning on it.

In John 1:1-5 we discover some essential information; 1. Jesus is the God of all of the Bible 2. There is nothing we can see, without or, with our telescopes and microscopes or our natural or spiritual eyes He did not create.

That is important because when all of the scriptures are written by Jesus, making it truly impossible to ignore that from In the Beginning... through the very last verse of Revelation 22 is of one context, all written through 40 or so scribes He inspired.

With the Bible viewed the way it was written with consideration, always for why Jesus has this record written, our salvation, so much more can be tught by the Holy Spirit anfd He will.

May God bless you and yours and Merry Christmas. it's even PC to say it that way again.

Bill, you have always been civil with me ever since I came to know you. We might not always agree with each other and that's OK as it makes us no less a brother and sister joined together in the union of Gods Spirit

I think I have let the light shine on many scriptures I have intensely studied as I presented them according to what they say for the scriptural support in post #41, 108, 115, 120, 123, 134, 150, 177. It takes all of the Bible from Genesis to Jude to understand the literal and symbolic in the book of Revelation and I have been studying this for over thirty years and will probably never exhaust it.

You and yours have a very blessed Christmas also and a prosperous New Year my friend :hug

Eugene · Dec 10, 2017

for_his_glory said:
It takes all of the Bible from Genesis to Jude to understand the literal and symbolic in the book of Revelation and I have been studying this for over thirty years

This above statement you wrote is in reference to a response th1b.taylor made. Are you politely saying that if he would study his bible he could know God as well as you?

for_his_glory · Dec 10, 2017

ezra said:
luke 16 the rich man

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
he then wanted to have somebody from the dead go warn his family ..certainly hell is not a pretty place nor is it the eternal lake of fire .

i dont find Christians in hell . i do see Christians in some type sleep with Christ.. till the Resurrection of the saints..i also will confess there many things about when exactly we go to heaven.. paul did write to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord

Luke 16 is a parable of a rich man who had everything and would give nothing to the beggar at his gate. They both died and the beggar now has everything as he is now comforted by God, but the rich man is now in pain as being the flames of his torment, not actual flames nor hell being the lake of fire, but only the grave. Jesus used parables as likening them to the things he was teaching the disciples.

No one has ever gone up to heaven when they died as it is only our breath/spirit that returns to God who gave it, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Enoch, Abraham, Moses Elijah have never gone up to the third heaven as they are all still in their graves, Genesis, 5:24; Genesis 49:30; Deuteronomy 34:5, 6; 2 Kings 2:11

for_his_glory · Dec 10, 2017

ezra said:
i enjoy discussions exchanging beliefs agree not agree personally i believe in 2 resurrections you dont... no big deal north pulling a knife out and slitting your throat lol. some take it to a personnel level to be honest on Revelations i take a cautious approach .there is so many different teaching pre trib mid trib after the tribulation . so much seems to center around Israel then i think about north Korea Rev is about future present past . i need pure facts one thing for sure Jesus IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY . he his coming again the rest is in God plan and hands

I too enjoy good discussions as I hate the debating that turns south. I will stay away from that. Many times when I thought I was right someone with more Spiritual knowledge than I would come along and show me what I was missing, but yet it was up to me to recognize it. We should never take anything personal especially in a forum where none of us know anything about the other other then what we post. Revelation is about all no matter what nation they are from as you are either one Spirit in the Lord or none of His. I want facts also as speculation and opinions mean nothing to me.

JLB · Dec 10, 2017

ezra said:
i enjoy discussions exchanging beliefs agree not agree personally i believe in 2 resurrections

Agreed.

Jim Parker · Dec 10, 2017

for_his_glory said:
No, they are not sent to hell, but receive eternal damnation,

Mat 25:41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
That seems like hell to me.

for_his_glory said:
hell is just another word for the grave/pit that will be cast into the lake of fire along with death as these two are the second death meaning there will be no more need of either one.

Yes. Rev 20:14.
Note that death and hell are cast INTO the lake of fire. Tee lake of fire is the second death, not death and hell.
It goes on forever so, apparently, there is a need for the lake of fire.
Rev 14:9-11 “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

for_his_glory said:
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance: Hell
Hebrew # 7585 Sheol, Hades, or the world of the dead, grave, hell, pit
Greek # 86 place of departed souls, grave, hell

None of those say exactly what is meant by the word "hell."

for_his_glory said:
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 11:14 (again) And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.
So everyone will end up having either eternal life or eternal torment in the lake of fire.

In general, we do not use the word "Hades" (the place of the dead) but, rather, when we use the word "hell" and by it we refer to a place of torment in flames.

There is scriptural support for that view in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. (Luke 16:19-31)
The experience of the rich man is described thus:
...being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Then he cried and said, "Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame." (VS. 23-24)
So, according to scripture, the unrighteous dead experience torment in flames in Hades to which we commonly refer as "hell."

iakov the fool

for_his_glory · Dec 10, 2017

Eugene said:
This above statement you wrote is in reference to a response th1b.taylor made. Are you politely saying that if he would study his bible he could know God as well as you?

No, I would never say that to anyone. That would be very rude of me and certainly would bring no glory to God. What I was saying is that Revelations involves many scriptures from Genesis to Jude to have Revelations unveiled to us. Bill is very knowledgeable with the scriptures even though we might not always agree.

ezra · Dec 10, 2017

for_his_glory said:
Luke 16 is a parable of a rich man who had everything and would give nothing to the beggar at his gate. They both died and the beggar now has everything as he is now comforted by God, but the rich man is now in pain as being the flames of his torment, not actual flames nor hell being the lake of fire, but only the grave. Jesus used parables as likening them to the things he was teaching the disciples.

parable maybe but it never starts out using the word parable another word for hell ---
Gehenna

(originally Ge bene Hinnom; i.e., "the valley of the sons of Hinnom"), a deep, narrow glen to the south of Jerusalem, where the idolatrous Jews offered their children in sacrifice to Molech ( 2 Chronicles 28:3 ; 33:6 ; Jeremiah 7:31 ; 19:2-6 ). This valley afterwards became the common receptacle for all the refuse of the city. Here the dead bodies of animals and of criminals, and all kinds of filth, were cast and consumed by fire kept always burning. It thus in process of time became the image of the place of everlasting destruction. In this sense it is used by our Lord in Matthew 5:22 Matthew 5:29 Matthew 5:30 ; 10:28 ; 18:9 ; Matthew 23:15 Matthew 23:33 ; Mark 9:43 Mark 9:45 Mark 9:47 ; Luke 12:5 . In these passages, and also in James 3:6 , the word is uniformly rendered "hell," the Revised Version placing "Gehenna" in the margin. (See HELL; HINNOM .)
the torment was real parable or no parable they are used to make a point and the point is the rich man trusted in his wealth instead of Christ .the Jews prided them self with riches .paul wrote the Love of money is the root of all evil.. we can see the evil of loving money men use it as power

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