Bible Study Love the Lord your God with....all your soul....

The other day I read Mark chapter 12 and this verse stood out: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12:30&version=KJV

A extremely well known one by all Christians. The word SOUL caught my attention - what exactly does that refer to? Not even Google could help very much. Many webpages about heart and mind, hardly any webpages about soul.

That really bugs me. I wanted more than broad theological definitions about soul - what does this actually mean for a Christian on a personal level?

Many do not know that it is a scripture from the Old Testament writings that some up our duty of love to God through FAITH in God's Word that produces the FRUIT of obedience to God's 10 commandments written on the heart to love and follow God...

Jesus was quoting the Old testament scripture when referring to the two great commandments found in Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 and finishes with "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. (Matt 22:36-40)

JoChris said:

The other day I read Mark chapter 12 and this verse stood out: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12:30&version=KJV

A extremely well known one by all Christians. The word SOUL caught my attention - what exactly does that refer to? Not even Google could help very much. Many webpages about heart and mind, hardly any webpages about soul.

That really bugs me. I wanted more than broad theological definitions about soul - what does this actually mean for a Christian on a personal level?

Click to expand...

For starters that is the only way for those in the old testament to live.
Adam was created a living soul, after the fall and having received death-life was absolutely separated from God.
Those in the old testament could not live by spirit as born again believers do, first because there was no cross to cancel death out as of yet.
Second, because of this they had a sin nature that was not akin to God the Father.

Soul is your creation, the way God created you.
The very unique individual called you, your expression, all in the image and likeness of God.
Well some of us do not like the way we are from time to time, but you have to understand that you still have in you a soul that has been used by that death life we inherited from Adam to express itself.
This is where religion fails believers, believing that they have been made perfect in soul, by the cross.
That is error, and alot of Christians hear a gospel of correction week in and week out.
Never being able to come to the simple knowledge "their completeness or perfect in spirit only."
So a very vicious cycle can start of trying everything to get cleaned up and hope we make heaven, that is a brutal way to live.
All of this comes from soul, the seat of knowledge, the emotions are there, your will.

Adam became a living soul. The mind, will, and emotions that Soul man spoke of.

Evidently Adam (and Eve) did not become masters of spiritual gifts in Eden. Eve was not able to resist the serpent in the garden. Eve did not resist Satan (who was behind the temptation). Eve did not overcome the evil force. Adam did not tell Eve (get the behind me Satan). Adam was a living soul and not a Holy Spirit filled person.

That said.
My early church instruction was that the soul was the good part of man. The actions in the garden just do not support that thought, I suggest that everyone study and meditate on this issue. Slow study to see what is going on in the soul.

To find out what is going on in the spirit of the mind is new to some. The new birth and the kingdom of the mind is hard to comprehend. Especially, when the new heart can confess sin, but still awaits the final trump for total transformation. Romans 7:25

Of course I am a Mississippi redneck with a smoked piece of glass my mind is looking through.

eddif

Hewbrews 4:12 KJV
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Romans 7:25 kjv
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

I will let others begin to separate mind and heart.

eddif

This body/flesh dies and deteriorates as it turns back to dust while in the ground. The breath/spirit goes back to God who gave it, Ecc 12:7. The soul which makes up the conscious part of ones being is that of thought, action and emotion. The spiritual nature of man regarded as immortal and separable from the body/flesh at death and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.

Without the spirit/breath from God our soul would not be alive as spirit and soul are connected, Genesis 2:7. When we physically die our soul also dies as the breath goes back to God who gave it. 1Corinthians Chapter 15 speaks of the resurrection of the dead as those who have died that are the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus as this is the first resurrection. We will not be raised from the grave in our old physical bodies, but will be raised with new Glorified bodies which we not know what we will look like, but will be like Christ, 1John 3:1-3.

Quick points:
I first read about the separation of spirit and soul via books of Watchman Nee many years ago, and I have learnt since then that he jumbled a fair few teachings on theology. What I remember is that he believed that soul had many different characteristics to spirit. I had the impression he believed that soul was part of the flesh, and only spirit was renewed after being born again. Therefore personality, temperament, personal strengths/ weaknesses wouldn't be altered.Any thoughts on (my interpretation of) Nee's viewpoint?

If soul refers to personal temperament etc, how does a Christian differentiate between loving with heart and soul?

Is it possible to love with heart and mind but not soul? What would the fruit of not loving God with soul look like?

I Corinthians 15:49 KJV
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Any time they start talking about a mystery, I think of through a glass darkly.

Anyway. We shall be changed. Then? Dead changed then? Alive changed then?

Revelation 6:11 KJV
And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Did Jesus give the white robes when he preached to those in Abraham’s bosom (captivity)?

I do not think there is a way to hem it all up. I am pro change (however it happens).

eddif

II Chronicles 7:14 KJV
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

IMHO
This is the soul part of man. It is temporal and limited.
II Chronicles 7:19
But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;
20 Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations.

This is the limit of the soul of man.
.................

If you wish to have eternal life, then you must trust in what Jesus accomplished in his death on the cross.

I Peter 2:24 kjv
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

If we grow beyond our soul, we come to what Jesus Christ accomplished. The new birth and kingdom are beyond our temporal original soul.

I John 1:9 KJV
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

What He did / does is eternally important. No more temporal soul benefits. No more Lord, Lord did we not do many great works statement at judgement. Our dependence on him is paramount. The gospel message is about Him.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

JoChris said:

Quick points:
I first read about the separation of spirit and soul via books of Watchman Nee many years ago, and I have learnt since then that he jumbled a fair few teachings on theology. What I remember is that he believed that soul had many different characteristics to spirit. I had the impression he believed that soul was part of the flesh, and only spirit was renewed after being born again. Therefore personality, temperament, personal strengths/ weaknesses wouldn't be altered.Any thoughts on (my interpretation of) Nee's viewpoint?

If soul refers to personal temperament etc, how does a Christian differentiate between loving with heart and soul?

Is it possible to love with heart and mind but not soul? What would the fruit of not loving God with soul look like?

Click to expand...

I would agree with you, soul does not need to be changed in this aspect..
It is the way you were created, misused by the sin in us but never the less you are still you.
A Word on Nee and those that have had something to say to the body.
They were deep writers for their time, God has used them immensely, did they know it all, no, did they make statements that sounded odd at times, yes.
But they furthered the body, they searched the word of God to feed meat to their listeners.
I'm trying not to get to cynical because of the times we live in and money is such an issue.
A book a week flies off the shelves by our best sellers, on how to do something, no meat just how to fix your christian life.
We have our deep writers that have come from these writers of old, its called progressive.
Present truth Peter calls it, we glean from each other, listening to the HolySpirit for the truth of God's word.
We have men and women such as Dwight Davis, Don Byrd, Linda Kenebrew, Warren litzman and many more.
In my opinion Will one day go down as the finest writers of our time.
Their not as well known as some, as far as I know, but they have something to say.

Soul man said:

I would agree with you, soul does not need to be changed in this aspect..
It is the way you were created, misused by the sin in us but never the less you are still you.
A Word on Nee and those that have had something to say to the body.
They were deep writers for their time, God has used them immensely, did they know it all, no, did they make statements that sounded odd at times, yes.
But they furthered the body, they searched the word of God to feed meat to their listeners.
I'm trying not to get to cynical because of the times we live in and money is such an issue.
A book a week flies off the shelves by our best sellers, on how to do something, no meat just how to fix your christian life.
We have our deep writers that have come from these writers of old, its called progressive.
Present truth Peter calls it, we glean from each other, listening to the HolySpirit for the truth of God's word.
We have men and women such as Dwight Davis, Don Byrd, Linda Kenebrew, Warren litzman and many more.
In my opinion Will one day go down as the finest writers of our time.
Their not as well known as some, as far as I know, but they have something to say.

Click to expand...

There is the impression amongst some Christians that the soul of a person should change after becoming a Christian to prove they really love God.

I will use myself as an example. When I was a teenager I felt pressure from some authors that all Christians become successful evangelists and love to talk to everybody. I am an extreme introvert and now I am middle aged I am finally resigned to being that way. When I read that verse I go "aarrgghhh!" That outwardly the personality should change so people can tell you are really do love the Lord. I would be a complete phoney if I did that.

So the soul that you have, not try to remodel according to the current Christian fashionable personality?

JoChris said:

There is the impression amongst some Christians that the soul of a person should change after becoming a Christian to prove they really love God.

I will use myself as an example. When I was a teenager I felt pressure from some authors that all Christians become successful evangelists and love to talk to everybody. I am an extreme introvert and now I am middle aged I am finally resigned to being that way. When I read that verse I go "aarrgghhh!" That outwardly the personality should change so people can tell you are really do love the Lord. I would be a complete phoney if I did that.

So the soul that you have, not try to remodel according to the current Christian fashionable personality?

Click to expand...

I like your post.
In this way.

The new born again (of the Spirit) person becomes aware of his deficit soulish behavior. His evangelism becomes to confess negative behavior, and to praise God for working out a solution. The confession of poor soul behavior just drives some folks bonkers. Scripture seems not to disagree.

The natural soul of man does not provide the total temporal and eternal solution. Is mankind in need of solutions? Yes. Should our negative behavior trouble us? Yes.

Just how does a redneck state this? With a whole lot of difficulty. Paul said he was a wretched man.
However.
In our mind we are seated with Christ Jesus in heaven. Now this just seems impossible. We just do not yet see the improvement needed. And scripture is honest about all this.

Rednecks are just needy. Come on last trump.
eddif

Hebrews 2:8 KJV
Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

eddif

JoChris said:

There is the impression amongst some Christians that the soul of a person should change after becoming a Christian to prove they really love God.

I will use myself as an example. When I was a teenager I felt pressure from some authors that all Christians become successful evangelists and love to talk to everybody. I am an extreme introvert and now I am middle aged I am finally resigned to being that way. When I read that verse I go "aarrgghhh!" That outwardly the personality should change so people can tell you are really do love the Lord. I would be a complete phoney if I did that.

So the soul that you have, not try to remodel according to the current Christian fashionable personality?

Click to expand...

Yes, when I first discovered that the lord was not trying to change my creation, it was like being born again again.
He created us perfect, in the womb He gave to us that special touch that is you.
We are to be the expression for christ to come out of us as He is, but nonetheless it will be exactly the way you were created.
Look at the fruit of the Spirit for an example, it is not the fruit of the believer, the believer can only allow this fruit to come out of them they cant produce the fruit.
That is Christianity 101 if you will, christ lives as your unique expression.
This is how union works, the two have become one.
Don't be fooled by all of the voices, it's very easy because they are flattering, well spoken and most are well meaning.
But they are still trying to correct who you were created to be, that is the error of their gospel message.
It is an effrontery to the cross, as well as your creation.
The Gospel allows you to be who you were created to be, and see your completion in christ.
This is the main reason Paul was so adamant on the gospel he preached, men can't see it so they preach correction instead of the true gospel.

Romans 10:2 KJV
For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

Saul of Tarsus had a zeal for God, but was misdirected in his persecution of Christians. Here is natural soul at work, but without correct direction.

Saul, now Paul, still had zeal after the new birth, but it was according to God's knowledge.

Man plans his way, but the lord directs the steps there off. (Memory)

Proverbs 16:9 KJV
A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

eddif

eddif said:

Romans 10:2 KJV
For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

Saul of Tarsus had a zeal for God, but was misdirected in his persecution of Christians. Here is natural soul at work, but without correct direction.

Saul, now Paul, still had zeal after the new birth, but it was according to God's knowledge.

Man plans his way, but the lord directs the steps there off. (Memory)

Proverbs 16:9 KJV
A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

eddif

Click to expand...

Being used of God is a tricky thing, we have a desire (thank God) to do something.
And we most generally will jump in and do what we can with not much knowledge.
That was me anyway, and my experience with most. The school boys as I most graciously referr to them, may get to miss out on some good hard knocks.
I'm not against education, far from it, look how God was able to use Paul and his knowledge, but Paul would also go on to say "I count all things as loss" for this new understanding.
It doesn't matter who you are, we need revelation and understanding.
We cannot be taught the wisdom of God, it can be proclaimed, but it is a revelation.
It is like dividing soul and spirit, we cannot do it on our own, but it can be done.
Because we can't do it on our own we act like it can't be done. Some of our theologians and scholars will dance all around such scriptures they can't explain and men/women go lacking listening to such a thing.
We have it all plainly written in black and white english, but you must search it out, seek, ask Jesus said.

Some think in the OT they were saved by works but under the NT by faith......
Not true....
As Abraham was saved by faith the same as us today.....
Galations 3:6-9
They truste an invisible God that spoke to their forfathers Abraham Isaac Jacob and Moses.....
Same as today...we trust an invisble God who sent His son whom we havent seen
But trust the testimony of His disciples.....
However the real test of sqlvation is love as Jesus stated was the greatest commandment

I Peter 3:19 KJV
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

IMHO
I think the OT saints in Abraham’s bosom saw Jesus and heard the gospel message.

They had to believe in faith just like us,

eddif