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JLB said:
In our initial salvation we demonstrate we believe the Gospel by obeying the command of the Gospel which is repent.

Repent means to turn to God.

If you are called to turn to God, then by default you are called to turn from Satan as your lord.

The way that you express this obedience of faith, concerning the Gospel is to confess Jesus as Lord.

This is what grants the believer/obeyer of the Gospel, the forgiveness of sins.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10

The faith action is to confess Jesus as Lord. in submission to His rule and authority.

This is the command of the Gospel that we are to obey, if we believe the Gospel.

JLB
Click to expand...
i can agree with what your saying .. but to the new believer this is all greek ..had anyone even tried to explain half of this to me before i got saved. i would have looked at them like a mule looking at a new gate....the phillipan jailer asked what must i do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ .the night i got saved i heard no voice saying your forgiven . i said God save me i called out by faith i accepted by faith end results i was saved by Grace. man kind has complicated salvation .. speak in tongues be baptized. say this sinners pray. a simple prayer of faith is all that is needed from a sincere heart . the rest comes as we mature grow in" his " grace and knowledge . jesus said seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these other things will be added . start out on milk end up on meat
 
WIP said:
Do you think it could be said that such a man is not really a believer? I wonder about that.
Click to expand...
A lot of people do think that. But I don't think so, primarily because the epistle is a practical treatise on Christian living. And I don't see how an example of an unbeliever's behavior has any relevance to a believer's. Kinda like comparing apples to oranges.

One of the most common complaints unbelievers have about going to church is "all the hypocrites there". I don't believe that only unbelievers can be hypocrites.

In my mind, a true believer would be inclined to want to help his neighbor.
Click to expand...
This is certainly the ideal, and what we are commanded to do. But life isn't always ideal. Remember the strong command of Paul to believers: "stop grieving the Holy Spirit" in Eph 4:30 and "stop quenching the Spirit" in 1 Thess 5:19.

Wouldn't hypocrisy either grieve or quench the Spirit? Seems so to me.

In other words, it is more than just doing to show or prove to others that one is a believer. It is about doing because Christ in him/her is leading the way, which could be what is meant by following Jesus.
Click to expand...
Yes. And again, what Paul told his audience of believers: "be filled with the Spirit" in Eph 5:18 and "walk by means of the Spirit" in Gal 5:16.

I find it very sad how many believers seem unaware of these spiritual realities, based on responses on these forums.
 
I said:
"everyone is happy with what they agree with. Or else, they'd not agree to it if it made them sad."
chessman said:
Pff, 90% of the movies I agree to see or restaurants I patron make me sad. ...
Click to expand...
I think this demonstrastes that you didn't agree with the movie and/or restaurants. Or they didn't "agree" with you.

But the wife and kids are happy
Click to expand...
Exactly. The movie/restaurants agreed with them, or vice versa.
 
FreeGrace said:
Let's examine what the Bible says about a saved man:
1 Thess 5:23 - May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Unsaved man has a body and soul, but no spirit.
Click to expand...

This is an interesting proposition.
11> "Therefore I will not keep silent; I will speak out in the anguish of my spirit, I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.
Job 7:11

6> I spread out my hands to you; my soul thirsts for you like a parched land. Selah
7> Answer me quickly, O LORD; my spirit fails. Do not hide your face from me or I will be like those who go down to the pit.
Psalm 143:6-7

2> When I was in distress, I sought the Lord; at night I stretched out untiring hands and my soul refused to be comforted.
3> I remembered you, O God, and I groaned; I mused, and my spirit grew faint.
Psalm 77:2-3

9> My soul yearns for you in the night; in the morning my spirit longs for you. When your judgments come upon the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness.
Isaiah 26:9

15> But what can I say? He has spoken to me, and he himself has done this. I will walk humbly all my years because of this anguish of my soul.
16> Lord, by such things men live; and my spirit finds life in them too. You restored me to health and let me live.
Isaiah 38:15-16

23> May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thess 5:23

12> For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double--edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Heb 4:12

The above verses imply all have a soul, spirit and body. So I do not see your proposition in
scripture.

The problem with the theology of a saved person receives an eternal spirit, is how this works in
the old testament, where they obviously have a spirit too, unless they equally were born again with
a new spirit. But there is a real difference between the Holy Spirit in the believer and what was
experienced in Israel. The new covenant is a real communion, so I do not see this in this language.

I would suggest such theology is grasping at straws and not supported by the text, but
I would like to see a verse that says this is what happens, because it is not a minor point theologically,
or even if true in our lives.

I have met people who claim once you come to faith you are born of the Spirit and become eternal.
The only problem is for such as these, they claim they have had the experience but I have not, even though
it is founded on faith in the cross. It is actually a mysterious experience, which happens to the "right" group,
but not those who do not hold to the exact way of expressing faith that they have.

Now when I came to faith, I knew nothing about security of theological ideas, yet I have failed, which
is simply an inconsistent faith position. I would say simply a group who make normal believers following Jesus
and obeying His word enemies, are not friends of Christ at all.

5> But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:
6> Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
1 John 2:5-6

Jesus walked in love, humbleness, meekness and grace. If the fruit of people is abuse, insults, disrespect,
rudeness, aggression, rudeness etc. you know they are not walking the Spirit but opposing it.

It is this have I have received from those who claim they walk in Christs ways and I do not. Strange how deep
the blindness goes, and how self serving they become, boasting in their sin, and failure, as if this is honesty and
victory. If one shares about victory, of joy, love and overcoming this becomes boasting in works, rather than giving
glory to God for His Holy Spirit at work in a sinner to sanctify them. The spirit of such words against the work of
God is not from Him. Make no mistake such people who preach this gospel desire to destroy the church as we know it.
 
There are two ways for the born again Christian, who is empowered by God's Spirit, to live their life on earth.

  1. According to the flesh.
  2. According to the Spirit.

If you have been born again and filled with God's Spirit, then you have the ability to reign and rule in dominion over the sin that dwells in your flesh, as well as the devil who seeks to entice you into destructive plan of sin and defeat.

Living life according to the Spirit, is the way of victory and blessing, and peace.

Living life according to the dictates of the flesh, seeking to gratify it's lustful desires of sin, whereby we become enslaved again to sin and the devil, once we have been set free, is the way of defeat, depression, and bondage, and leads to death; eternal death.


12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.Romans 8:12-13
 
I said:
"Let's examine what the Bible says about a saved man:
1 Thess 5:23 - May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Unsaved man has a body and soul, but no spirit."
PeterJens said:
This is an interesting proposition.
11> "Therefore I will not keep silent; I will speak out in the anguish of my spirit, I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.
Job 7:11

6> I spread out my hands to you; my soul thirsts for you like a parched land. Selah
7> Answer me quickly, O LORD; my spirit fails. Do not hide your face from me or I will be like those who go down to the pit.
Psalm 143:6-7

2> When I was in distress, I sought the Lord; at night I stretched out untiring hands and my soul refused to be comforted.
3> I remembered you, O God, and I groaned; I mused, and my spirit grew faint.
Psalm 77:2-3

9> My soul yearns for you in the night; in the morning my spirit longs for you. When your judgments come upon the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness.
Isaiah 26:9

15> But what can I say? He has spoken to me, and he himself has done this. I will walk humbly all my years because of this anguish of my soul.
16> Lord, by such things men live; and my spirit finds life in them too. You restored me to health and let me live.
Isaiah 38:15-16

23> May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thess 5:23

12> For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double--edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Heb 4:12

The above verses imply all have a soul, spirit and body. So I do not see your proposition in
scripture.

The problem with the theology of a saved person receives an eternal spirit, is how this works in
the old testament, where they obviously have a spirit too, unless they equally were born again with
a new spirit. But there is a real difference between the Holy Spirit in the believer and what was
experienced in Israel. The new covenant is a real communion, so I do not see this in this language.

I would suggest such theology is grasping at straws and not supported by the text, but
I would like to see a verse that says this is what happens, because it is not a minor point theologically,
or even if true in our lives.

I have met people who claim once you come to faith you are born of the Spirit and become eternal.
The only problem is for such as these, they claim they have had the experience but I have not, even though
it is founded on faith in the cross. It is actually a mysterious experience, which happens to the "right" group,
but not those who do not hold to the exact way of expressing faith that they have.

Now when I came to faith, I knew nothing about security of theological ideas, yet I have failed, which
is simply an inconsistent faith position. I would say simply a group who make normal believers following Jesus
and obeying His word enemies, are not friends of Christ at all.

5> But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:
6> Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
1 John 2:5-6

Jesus walked in love, humbleness, meekness and grace. If the fruit of people is abuse, insults, disrespect,
rudeness, aggression, rudeness etc. you know they are not walking the Spirit but opposing it.

It is this have I have received from those who claim they walk in Christs ways and I do not. Strange how deep
the blindness goes, and how self serving they become, boasting in their sin, and failure, as if this is honesty and
victory. If one shares about victory, of joy, love and overcoming this becomes boasting in works, rather than giving
glory to God for His Holy Spirit at work in a sinner to sanctify them. The spirit of such words against the work of
God is not from Him. Make no mistake such people who preach this gospel desire to destroy the church as we know it.
Click to expand...
I do not see how any of this post relates to what I said.
 
JLB said:
There are two ways for the born again Christian, who is empowered by God's Spirit, to live their life on earth.

  1. According to the flesh.
  2. According to the Spirit.

If you have been born again and filled with God's Spirit, then you have the ability to reign and rule in dominion over the sin that dwells in your flesh, as well as the devil who seeks to entice you into destructive plan of sin and defeat.

Living life according to the Spirit, is the way of victory and blessing, and peace.

Living life according to the dictates of the flesh, seeking to gratify it's lustful desires of sin, whereby we become enslaved again to sin and the devil, once we have been set free, is the way of defeat, depression, and bondage, and leads to death; eternal death.
Click to expand...
No. The Bible does not say that the believer who lives according to the flesh will die eternally, as is being suggested here.

If that were true, then Jesus was wrong when He made 3 very important points in John's gospel;

POINT 1: those who believe HAVE eternal life. This means they are given eternal life, a gift of God, when they believe, because the Bible says nothing about receiving this gift after any kind of probationary period.
John 3:15,16, 36, 5:24, 6:47, 11;25-27, 20:31, 1 Tim 1:16, 1 John 5:13

POINT 2: Jesus Himself is the Giver of the gift of eternal life. John 10:28

POINT 3: Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

So, IF...a believer who walked according to the flesh will eternally die, which means to perish, then Jesus was flat wrong.

Jesus gave NO CONDITIONS to recipients of eternal life. There is, however, ONE CONDITION for becoming a recipient of etenral life: one must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as Messiah/Savior.
John 3:16, 5:24, 6:40,47, 11;25-27, 20:31, 1 John 5:13

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.Romans 8:12-13
Click to expand...
It says "die", not "die spiritually" or "die eternally".

It's not acceptable to add words to Scripture that aren't there.

The believer who lives according to the flesh will die the "sin unto death" which is physical death. Yes, everyone will die physically. But when the Lord administers physical death as discipline for behavior, believe what the Bible says about the Lord's discipline: it is painful.

Heb 12:11

Paul twice noted believers who were "turned over" to Satan for the destruction of the flesh. 1 Cor 5:5 and 1 Tim 1:20

Remember this: when Jesus gives a believer eternal life, which is when they believe, they shall never perish.

No 2 ways about it.

Once given eternal life, there will be no perishing.
 
FreeGrace said:
No. The Bible does not say that the believer who lives according to the flesh will die eternally, as is being suggested here.

If that were true, then Jesus was wrong when He made 3 very important points in John's gospel;

POINT 1: those who believe HAVE eternal life. This means they are given eternal life, a gift of God, when they believe, because the Bible says nothing about receiving this gift after any kind of probationary period.
John 3:15,16, 36, 5:24, 6:47, 11;25-27, 20:31, 1 Tim 1:16, 1 John 5:13

POINT 2: Jesus Himself is the Giver of the gift of eternal life. John 10:28

POINT 3: Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

So, IF...a believer who walked according to the flesh will eternally die, which means to perish, then Jesus was flat wrong.

Jesus gave NO CONDITIONS to recipients of eternal life. There is, however, ONE CONDITION for becoming a recipient of etenral life: one must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as Messiah/Savior.
John 3:16, 5:24, 6:40,47, 11;25-27, 20:31, 1 John 5:13


It says "die", not "die spiritually" or "die eternally".

It's not acceptable to add words to Scripture that aren't there.

The believer who lives according to the flesh will die the "sin unto death" which is physical death. Yes, everyone will die physically. But when the Lord administers physical death as discipline for behavior, believe what the Bible says about the Lord's discipline: it is painful.

Heb 12:11

Paul twice noted believers who were "turned over" to Satan for the destruction of the flesh. 1 Cor 5:5 and 1 Tim 1:20

Remember this: when Jesus gives a believer eternal life, which is when they believe, they shall never perish.

No 2 ways about it.

Once given eternal life, there will be no perishing.
Click to expand...

Here is what Jesus said about eternal life:

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

  • those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

Compared to what Paul said about eternal life:


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Jesus:
  • those who have done good, to the resurrection of life: Jesus
  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good: Paul


Sir, I don't know you, or who has taught you, or what you have been through in this life.

I can only share what the scriptures teach us.

There are two ways for the born again Christian, who is empowered by God's Spirit, to live their life on earth.

  1. According to the flesh.
  2. According to the Spirit.

If you have been born again and filled with God's Spirit, then you have the ability to reign and rule in dominion over the sin that dwells in your flesh, as well as the devil who seeks to entice you into destructive plan of sin and defeat.

Living life according to the Spirit, is the way of victory and blessing, and peace.

Living life according to the dictates of the flesh, seeking to gratify it's lustful desires of sin, whereby we become enslaved again to sin and the devil, once we have been set free, is the way of defeat, depression, and bondage, and leads to death; eternal death.


12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.Romans 8:12-13


JLB
 
JLB said:
Compared to what Paul said about eternal life:


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8
Click to expand...
What translation is this, because t’s NOT the NKJV nor any other besides your own. You’ve altered the NKJV v6 by including some of v5, yet without proper reference to it.

who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:​
Romans 2:6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 2:6&version=NKJV


Who was Paul quoting in v6 (the passage properly quoted inside the quotation marks of the NKJV)?
 
FreeGrace said:
I said:
"Let's examine what the Bible says about a saved man:
1 Thess 5:23 - May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Unsaved man has a body and soul, but no spirit."

I do not see how any of this post relates to what I said.
Click to expand...

Free.
Your proposition is unsaved people do not have a spirit.
I quoted a lot of scripture where people talk about their spirit.
And the scriptures are in the context that everyone has a spirit.

11> The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12> We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
1 cor 2:11-12

It is clear Paul accepts everyone has a spirit, it is their essence, that which dwells in their heart.
In discussions, just ignoring verses which do not agree with a proposition, is not an argument
just ignoring it. I am not saying you are doing this, I am commenting in general.

I had a discussion with someone who wrote something, declaring a point.
The next post they denied they had said such a thing.

I found this a strange event. It was simply not telling the truth about something that was
there on the page. But they carried on as if nothing had happened.

If someone has no integrity or honesty, and they just want to win an argument even when it is
lost, one way is to deny the argument and carry on as before in the absolute certainty nothing has
changed.

John wrote about this in the book of revelations.

11> Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy."
12> "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.
13> I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14> "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
15> Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Rev 22:11-15

Eternal things come from what we sow, that is our choice, and the fruit of which our hearts will speak of.
There will be no hiding on that last day, and the judgements made will be true. Amen, come Lord Jesus.
 
Faith alone is not the only requirement for salvation......
You must show the fruits of the Spirit
BY their fruits you will know them.....
Matthew 7:16
Add to your faith vitue. Knowledge self-control kindness and Love...
2 peter 1:5-7
Love is the fulfillment of the law
Romans 13:10
Faith alone cannot save
James 2:17
 
ezra said:
i was just making sure so as i did not disagree when it is agreeable .. my big issue/ disagreement is Abraham justified several times. justified takes place at salvation. then sanctification takes over
Click to expand...
This is correct Ezra.
It's just language sometimes...
 
Traveling teacher said:
Faith alone is not the only requirement for salvation......
You must show the fruits of the Spirit
BY their fruits you will know them.....
Matthew 7:16
Add to your faith vitue. Knowledge self-control kindness and Love...
2 peter 1:5-7
Love is the fulfillment of the law
Romans 13:10
Faith alone cannot save
James 2:17
Click to expand...
The only requirement for salvation is faith.
Then sanctification kicks in.
 
Traveling teacher said:
Faith alone is not the only requirement for salvation......
You must show the fruits of the Spirit
BY their fruits you will know them.....
Matthew 7:16
Add to your faith vitue. Knowledge self-control kindness and Love...
2 peter 1:5-7
Love is the fulfillment of the law
Romans 13:10
Faith alone cannot save
James 2:17
Click to expand...
your way off course saved by grace through Faith not of works less any one should boast it is the gift of God... the fruit not fruits which is how paul wrote it in Galatians the fruit of the spirit comes after salvation Grace saves through faith .. it appears you to be adding to the plan of salvation
 
chessman said:
What translation is this, because t’s NOT the NKJV nor any other besides your own. You’ve altered the NKJV v6 by including some of v5, yet without proper reference to it.

who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:​
Romans 2:6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 2:6&version=NKJV


Who was Paul quoting in v6 (the passage properly quoted inside the quotation marks of the NKJV)?
Click to expand...

Here maybe this will help, because it’s the NKJV.

But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:5-11

The Who is verse 6 is God... who will render to each one of us according to our deeds.

  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Born again Christians who choose to live according to the flesh, practicing the works of the flesh, when they have been empowered by the Holy Spirit to live their life according to the Spirit, will suffer the wrath of God on Judgement Day.

  • but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,


JLB
 
JLB said:
Born again Christians who choose to live according to the flesh, practicing the works of the flesh, when they have been empowered by the Holy Spirit to live their life according to the Spirit, will suffer the wrath of God on Judgement Day.
Click to expand...
they never was saved to start with
 
ezra said:
they never was saved to start with
Click to expand...

Please explain how a born again Christian is not saved ?

Is there something more a person must do to be saved, other than believe?


Born again Christians who choose to live according to the flesh, practicing the works of the flesh, when they have been empowered by the Holy Spirit to live their life according to the Spirit, will suffer the wrath of God on Judgement Day.

  • but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,


JLB
 
JLB said:
Here maybe this will help, because it’s the NKJV.
Click to expand...
Your previous postings of the ‘verse’ have been misquotations of the verse and a snip of Paul’s sentence. But yes, it’s much more helpful to quote the full sentence properly.

How about helping me and the forum further and answering the question. Who is Paul quoting in the v6 portion?

JLB said:
The Who is verse 6 is God... who will render to each one of us according to our deeds.
Click to expand...
Well there you go again. Yes the Who is God in v6!

Yet what Paul actually quoted was; “will render to each one according to his deeds”

Why change “his deeds” (Paul’s words) to ‘our deeds’ (your words)???
 
I am puzzlled. The Lord never forced anyone to do anything. The parable of the prodigal son, the
tenant keepers of the vineyard, the returning King, the wedding banquet.

But the ways of the enemy are intimidation, domination, orders, punishments, torture, bondage.
Now how is it that some are believing, God forces believers who make a commitment, but then
change their minds are then forced into the Kingdom, whether they want to or not.

Is the Kingdom of heaven full of conscripted recruits, egged on by seeing themselves saved from
hell by a short fling of fancy with the Lord? Did not read that anywhere is scripture, rather the opposite.
Those who play around with the things of God, get literally swallowed up by the ground, struck dead
by Gods word, stand is fear and trembling before the great throne and the King they have trampled on.

21> The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, "I am trembling with fear."
22> But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,
23> to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,
24> to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
25> See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven?
Heb 12:21-25

14> Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
15> See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.
Heb 12:14-15

10> You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.
11> It is written: "'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'"
12> So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
Rom 14:10-12

16> Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil.
17> For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,
18> because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.
Rom 14:16-18
 
JLB said:
Please explain how a born again Christian is not saved ?

Is there something more a person must do to be saved, other than believe?


Born again Christians who choose to live according to the flesh, practicing the works of the flesh, when they have been empowered by the Holy Spirit to live their life according to the Spirit, will suffer the wrath of God on Judgement Day.

  • but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,


JLB
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let me thank you for twisting what i posted.i must say you done a great job... let me try this again please read very carefully
Born again Christians {{{who choose to live according to the flesh, practicing the works of the flesh}}}}, when they have been empowered by the Holy Spirit to live their life according to the Spirit, will suffer the wrath of God on Judgement Day.
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first off practicing the works of the flesh in the manner you posted ..is not characteristics of the spirit filled life nor of a born again believer
Galatians 5:19-21King James Version (KJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past,
that{{{{ they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.}}} will we sin yes .... the spirit will prick bring conviction which should lead to repentance /.. i hope this clears your confusion up Born again== new creation in Christ . i realize you believe one can lose their salvation .. please understand this is not what my point is can or can not...
 
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