What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

    Read daily articles from Focus on the Family in the Marriage and Parenting Resources forum.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses

  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

    Read The Gospel Online.

Bible Study Old Testament? New Testament? NO, NO!! Only One Covenant (Testament)

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$1,038.00
Goal
$1,038.00
Donate View
Chopper said:
For those of you who are stuck in the Western mind set in thinking that there are two Testaments, old & new are sadly mistaken. Testaments are really Covenants. The Truth of the Scriptures prove that there is only one Covenant.

Do you dare to seek the Truth? Or don't you want to pull your head out of the sand? My Hebrew Teacher Alan Horvath has a teaching video on this subject. Here it is....www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF0A4PROiH0
WATCH IT AND LEARN!! Ignore it and stay ignorant :chair.
Click to expand...
thanks for this - this is awesome - God Bless you
 
Last edited:
Chopper said:
I believe you have totally misunderstood my intentions about presenting Alan Horvath. He is my Hebrew Teacher. For a very long time, I've been constantly praying to Elohim that He would lead me into all Truth. Several years ago, The Holy Spirit led me to Alan Horvath, a third generation Hebrew believer in Christ Jesus. As a result of learning ancient Hebrew, I have view almost a hundred teaching video's from this anointed man of God.

In all those teaching video's, I've not as yet found anything I disagree with. His walk testifies to his position in Yahshua Jesus. I simply put out Alan's name and video's to help those who are hungry for Truth, not someone to bash. So far, only one has made positives remarks to Alan's words and video's and that is Bill Taylor. Bill knows when the Holy Spirit is putting forth great teachings. I also believe that Edward has made positive remarks. Thanks for both of you.

All others, be very careful what the Holy Spirit is doing in our midst. If you don't like what I'm doing, keep it to yourself and allow Almighty YHWH to rule between us.

I love you all and want the best of what Yahshua Jesus has for you all.
In Love,
Chopper
Click to expand...
amen

the problem is too many people do not read or study Tanakh because they believe it is old and passed away - and as a result misunderstand what Jesus said about it - and totally misunderstand what Paul really said about it

it's hard to share these things without people thinking we are making small and of no effect the awesome work of Christ

God Bless you my friend
 
Last edited:
th1b.taylor said:
If my wife and daughter had not had so much pain in their face when I jerked from the throbbing pain of my most recent Heart Attack, I would be standing on the other edge of the Spiritual Jordan but they could not take it and we went to the Horse-Pistol and almost as soon as they gave me the Nitro I quit bouncing around. And bot, did that Heart Surgeon get upset when I told him I already have too many stints in my system and that God would handle the problem, His way. LOL
Click to expand...
praying for your health as per 1 Peter 2:24 and Isaiah 53:5 in Jesus' excellent name
 
Chopper said:
Do you dare to seek the Truth? Or don't you want to pull your head out of the sand? My Hebrew Teacher Alan Horvath has a teaching video on this subject. Here it is....www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF0A4PROiH0
WATCH IT AND LEARN!! Ignore it and stay ignorant :chair.
Click to expand...

I have went back and tried watching the video again Chopper, and it appears there seems to be a confusion in terms, and a conflation of covenants. Mr Horvath is not here to respond, so you will have to clarify his teaching for us.

We might do ourselves a better service if we stop referring to the covenants as new or old, or as first or second, but rather we should refer to them as the Covenant promised to Abraham and the Covenant made with Moses. For these are indeed two different covenants.

Mr. Horvath in the video refers to the first covenant as the covenant sworn to Abraham. In saying this is the first covenant, he is technically correct, for the covenant promised to Abraham predated the Covenant made with Moses by 430 years. But many, including Jesus and Paul referred to the first covenant as the Covenant with Moses. It is the covenant with Moses that is ready to vanish away.

The Covenant promised to Abraham was a covenant that was not renewed in Christ, but it was a Covenant made with Christ and confirmed in his own Blood. As Jesus said drink, for this my blood of the NEW covenant. The new covenant is not the same as the old. The New Covenant was made with Christ, the Old was made with Moses

Where Mr. Horvath in his video goes on to confuse the matters greatly, is he calls the First Covenant the one promised to Abraham, as given and recorded in the books of the first testament and the books of the law. But in this he is mistaken, for the First Testament and covenant with made with Moses are found written and recorded in the words of the Book; But the New Covenant in Christ is written in and read from the heart.
 
It can get so tiresome when people that have not an idea of all the Bible of Jesus has to offer because they have chosen the short sited approaches of the Later Day New Testament and New Covenant Teachers but being led by the Deceiver has fooled them all into believing his nonsense, rejecting the truth that while the New Testament is accurately thought of as the Renewed Covenant or as the only God Inspired Life Application Commentaries. The Bible was perfect before the Jews exercised the First Canon but God, knowing our propensities to go astray and to make a religion out of a relationship and with the predetermined birth and death of the Son of God, He made it simple, Read His Word and then the misnamed New Testament to see the Practical Application of the Bible Teachings.
 
th1b.taylor said:
The Bible was perfect before the Jews exercised the First Canon but God,
Click to expand...


Any honest student of the scriptures would acknowledge that the Bible did not yet exist before the the 12 tribes broke faith with the Lord. Before the scriptures were assemble, before a scroll was penned, the first covenant was broken before the second was ever spoken. The stone tablets of the first were cast down to the ground and dashed upon a rock. But the stone tablets of the second they carried with them shut up within an ark.
 
ezrider said:
I have went back and tried watching the video again Chopper, and it appears there seems to be a confusion in terms, and a conflation of covenants. Mr Horvath is not here to respond, so you will have to clarify his teaching for us.

We might do ourselves a better service if we stop referring to the covenants as new or old, or as first or second, but rather we should refer to them as the Covenant promised to Abraham and the Covenant made with Moses. For these are indeed two different covenants.

Mr. Horvath in the video refers to the first covenant as the covenant sworn to Abraham. In saying this is the first covenant, he is technically correct, for the covenant promised to Abraham predated the Covenant made with Moses by 430 years. But many, including Jesus and Paul referred to the first covenant as the Covenant with Moses. It is the covenant with Moses that is ready to vanish away.

The Covenant promised to Abraham was a covenant that was not renewed in Christ, but it was a Covenant made with Christ and confirmed in his own Blood. As Jesus said drink, for this my blood of the NEW covenant. The new covenant is not the same as the old. The New Covenant was made with Christ, the Old was made with Moses

Where Mr. Horvath in his video goes on to confuse the matters greatly, is he calls the First Covenant the one promised to Abraham, as given and recorded in the books of the first testament and the books of the law. But in this he is mistaken, for the First Testament and covenant with made with Moses are found written and recorded in the words of the Book; But the New Covenant in Christ is written in and read from the heart.
Click to expand...

Mr. Horvath calls the Covenants the "First Covenant, and the Renewed Covenant" They're really only one Covenant. The initial Covenant and the renewed Covenant. they are not the "Law" They are loving instructions from Jesus Who wrote all scriptures to learn how to escape the traps of Satan and walk thru life on the "narrow road".
 
Chopper said:
Mr. Horvath calls the Covenants the "First Covenant, and the Renewed Covenant" They're really only one Covenant. The initial Covenant and the renewed Covenant. they are not the "Law" They are loving instructions from Jesus Who wrote all scriptures to learn how to escape the traps of Satan and walk thru life on the "narrow road".
Click to expand...

I know what Mr. Horvath calls the covenants; I watched the video. I ask you to address what I find to be discrepancies in his teaching because he can not. Was I mistaken in believing you could address the scriptures instead of just repeating what Mr Horvath teaches in the video? The vail remains in place; for the Words of the Book are sealed...

Do you understand that the covenants were marriage contracts? How can the widow renew the covenant with her husband when she had him killed? And if she seeks to renew that covenant, then she saith in her heart that she sits a queen and is no widow. Yet in the second death, which vows will she seek?

Chopper, just a simple question that I hope you can give a simple answer to in your own words: If you are trying to walk thru life on the "narrow road," where is it that this road takes you? What is your destination?
 
Last edited:
Chopper, can you please address the following scriptures?


Exodus 2:23-25
And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage. And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob. And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.

The Lord remembered His Covenant that He promised to Abraham.

Deuteronomy 5:1-5
And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day. The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire, (I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to shew you the word of the Lord: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount;) saying,

I have highlighted the two different covenants spoken of in the Old Testament. The one I have highlighted in blue is the Covenant promised to Abraham and made with Christ. The one highlighted in red is the Covenant made with Moses, typically referred to as the Old Covenant. Moses tells them this covenant is NOT the one made with Abraham. So which Covenant do you consider to be first, and what Covenant do you consider to be renewed? Because BOTH covenants are spoken of in the OLD TESTAMENT and BOTH covenants are spoken of in the NEW TESTAMENT. Both testaments speak of two covenants.

Galatians 4:21-27
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

If the one covenant leads to BONDAGE, and the other covenant is FREE; then to which of these TWO Covenants do you teach is the renewed one?
 
Isaiah 54:1-10
Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear;
break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child:
for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.
Enlarge the place of thy tent,
and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations:
spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left;
and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles,
and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed:
neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame:
for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth,
and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.
For thy Maker is thine husband;
the Lord of hosts is his name;
and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
For the Lord hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit,
and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
For a small moment have I forsaken thee;
but with great mercies will I gather thee.
In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment;
but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee,
saith the Lord thy Redeemer.
For this is as the waters of Noah unto me:
for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth;
so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
For the mountains shall depart,
and the hills be removed;
but my kindness shall not depart from thee,
neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed,
saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee.
 
Isaiah 28:14-20
Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men,
that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death,
and with hell are we at agreement;
when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us:
for we have made lies our refuge,
and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Therefore thus saith the Lord God,
Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone,
a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation:
he that believeth shall not make haste.
Judgment also will I lay to the line,
and righteousness to the plummet:
and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies,
and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
And your covenant with death shall be disannulled,
and your agreement with hell shall not stand;
when the overflowing scourge shall pass through,
then ye shall be trodden down by it.
From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you:
for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night:
and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it:
and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.


Chopper, if the Lord through the prophets called it a Covenant with DEATH, then would the Renewed covenant with death be the SECOND DEATH?
 
Jeremiah 31:31 NASB
“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

Luke 22:20 NASB
And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

1 Corinthians 11:25 NASB
In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

2 Corinthians 3:6 NASB
who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Hebrews 8:8 NASB
For finding fault with them, He says,
“BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD,
WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT
WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;

Hebrews 8:13 NASB
When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Hebrews 9:15 NASB
For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Hebrews 12:24 NASB
and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.


Contrary to the title, I am pretty sure there IS a new covenant.
 
ezrider said:
Chopper, can you please address the following scriptures?


Exodus 2:23-25
And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage. And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob. And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.

The Lord remembered His Covenant that He promised to Abraham.

Deuteronomy 5:1-5
And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day. The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire, (I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to shew you the word of the Lord: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount;) saying,

I have highlighted the two different covenants spoken of in the Old Testament. The one I have highlighted in blue is the Covenant promised to Abraham and made with Christ. The one highlighted in red is the Covenant made with Moses, typically referred to as the Old Covenant. Moses tells them this covenant is NOT the one made with Abraham. So which Covenant do you consider to be first, and what Covenant do you consider to be renewed? Because BOTH covenants are spoken of in the OLD TESTAMENT and BOTH covenants are spoken of in the NEW TESTAMENT. Both testaments speak of two covenants.

Galatians 4:21-27
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

If the one covenant leads to BONDAGE, and the other covenant is FREE; then to which of these TWO Covenants do you teach is the renewed one?
Click to expand...

What I'd like everyone to understand is that Yahshua Jesus wrote the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation. He did so by the Holy Spirit (Ruah ha'Qodesh) as He inspired certain men to document what Abba Father wanted written by His Son thru Spirit filled men.

Yahshua Jesus established a thing called "Covenant"
H548
אֲמָנָה
'ămânâh
am-aw-naw'
Feminine of H543; something fixed, that is, a covenant, an allowance: - certain portion, sure.

Keep in mind that Yahshua Jesus, and the Divine Counsel established the First Covenant to always set in motion the absolute need for a renewed Covenant with Yahshua Jesus as the focal point to accomplish what the First Covenant could not do. The First Covenant with it's instruction, pointed to the stake (cross) on which Yahshua Jesus would fulfill as the Lamb of Elohim (God) all the rules of the First Covenant.

In the absence of the Renewed Covenant, there was needed a loving instruction from Elohim (Divine Counsel) to walk in obedience to the Tora, thus avoiding the traps of Satan and his minions.

Yahshua Jesus, by His death, fulfilled all the sacrifices of the First Covenant. In order to really grasp the meaning of one continual Covenant, First and renewed, one must get it in their thinking that Yahshua Jesus along with the Divine Counsel Elohim created the heavens and earth, man and all creatures. Everything that happens from that point on is the responsibility of the Divine Counsel, not created man!!

Yahshua also established the Covenants in the First Covenant as a road map to the Renewed Covenant. If Yahshua didn't renew the first one, Israel would be stuck forever in their sins of being disobedient forever. Hallelu-Yah Yahshua went to the stake (cross), died as the sacrificial Lamb of Yahweh, shed His Blood, resurrected to the Shamayim (heaven) with His Own Blood and deposited on the mercy seat in the Temple not made by hands.

The Renewed Covenant was established when Yahshua placed His Blood, not on the earth like the Kohen (High Priest) But in the Shamayim in it's Temple by Yahshua Who is the Kohen ha'gadol (High Priest) that renewed the First Covenant which was temporal until Yahshua renewed it for an everlasting Covenant with His Children.

Hey folks, There are several ways of considering a new and in depth teaching of the Word of the "most High El" You can argue and debate and stay in your ignorance, or you can ponder and ask Abba Father for the truth. He always leads us to the Way, Truth, & Life.
 
Chopper said:
What I'd like everyone to understand is that Yahshua Jesus wrote the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation. He did so by the Holy Spirit (Ruah ha'Qodesh) as He inspired certain men to document what Abba Father wanted written by His Son thru Spirit filled men.

Yahshua Jesus established a thing called "Covenant"
H548
אֲמָנָה
'ămânâh
am-aw-naw'
Feminine of H543; something fixed, that is, a covenant, an allowance: - certain portion, sure.

Keep in mind that Yahshua Jesus, and the Divine Counsel established the First Covenant to always set in motion the absolute need for a renewed Covenant with Yahshua Jesus as the focal point to accomplish what the First Covenant could not do. The First Covenant with it's instruction, pointed to the stake (cross) on which Yahshua Jesus would fulfill as the Lamb of Elohim (God) all the rules of the First Covenant.

In the absence of the Renewed Covenant, there was needed a loving instruction from Elohim (Divine Counsel) to walk in obedience to the Tora, thus avoiding the traps of Satan and his minions.

Yahshua Jesus, by His death, fulfilled all the sacrifices of the First Covenant. In order to really grasp the meaning of one continual Covenant, First and renewed, one must get it in their thinking that Yahshua Jesus along with the Divine Counsel Elohim created the heavens and earth, man and all creatures. Everything that happens from that point on is the responsibility of the Divine Counsel, not created man!!

Yahshua also established the Covenants in the First Covenant as a road map to the Renewed Covenant. If Yahshua didn't renew the first one, Israel would be stuck forever in their sins of being disobedient forever. Hallelu-Yah Yahshua went to the stake (cross), died as the sacrificial Lamb of Yahweh, shed His Blood, resurrected to the Shamayim (heaven) with His Own Blood and deposited on the mercy seat in the Temple not made by hands.

The Renewed Covenant was established when Yahshua placed His Blood, not on the earth like the Kohen (High Priest) But in the Shamayim in it's Temple by Yahshua Who is the Kohen ha'gadol (High Priest) that renewed the First Covenant which was temporal until Yahshua renewed it for an everlasting Covenant with His Children.

Hey folks, There are several ways of considering a new and in depth teaching of the Word of the "most High El" You can argue and debate and stay in your ignorance, or you can ponder and ask Abba Father for the truth. He always leads us to the Way, Truth, & Life.
Click to expand...

hello Chopper, dirtfarmer here

You haven't answered any of my question before, so, will it be the same with this post?

"YaHshua Jesus didn't write the whole bible. We are told in Hebrews 1:1; " God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in times past unto the fathers by the prophets."
In Hebrews 1:2 tells us: "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, Whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by who also he made the worlds;"

In Hebrews 1:1 the word God in the greek is "Theos", not "Jehoshua". In Hebrews 1:2 "his Son" in the greek is Huio.
 
ezrider said:
I know what Mr. Horvath calls the covenants; I watched the video. I ask you to address what I find to be discrepancies in his teaching because he can not. Was I mistaken in believing you could address the scriptures instead of just repeating what Mr Horvath teaches in the video? The vail remains in place; for the Words of the Book are sealed...

Do you understand that the covenants were marriage contracts? How can the widow renew the covenant with her husband when she had him killed? And if she seeks to renew that covenant, then she saith in her heart that she sits a queen and is no widow. Yet in the second death, which vows will she seek?

Chopper, just a simple question that I hope you can give a simple answer to in your own words: If you are trying to walk thru life on the "narrow road," where is it that this road takes you? What is your destination?
Click to expand...
My destination is the Kingdom of God.
 
dirtfarmer said:
hello Chopper, dirtfarmer here

You haven't answered any of my question before, so, will it be the same with this post?

"YaHshua Jesus didn't write the whole bible. We are told in Hebrews 1:1; " God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in times past unto the fathers by the prophets."
In Hebrews 1:2 tells us: "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, Whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by who also he made the worlds;"

In Hebrews 1:1 the word God in the greek is "Theos", not "Jehoshua". In Hebrews 1:2 "his Son" in the greek is Huio.
Click to expand...

First off, I don't quote Scriptures in Greek. I quote in Aramaic/Hebrew. Yahshua spoke thru the Prophets, same as Moses.
 
ezrider said:
Chopper, can you please address the following scriptures?


Exodus 2:23-25
And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage. And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob. And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.

The Lord remembered His Covenant that He promised to Abraham.

Deuteronomy 5:1-5
And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day. The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire, (I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to shew you the word of the Lord: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount;) saying,

I have highlighted the two different covenants spoken of in the Old Testament. The one I have highlighted in blue is the Covenant promised to Abraham and made with Christ. The one highlighted in red is the Covenant made with Moses, typically referred to as the Old Covenant. Moses tells them this covenant is NOT the one made with Abraham. So which Covenant do you consider to be first, and what Covenant do you consider to be renewed? Because BOTH covenants are spoken of in the OLD TESTAMENT and BOTH covenants are spoken of in the NEW TESTAMENT. Both testaments speak of two covenants.

Galatians 4:21-27
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

If the one covenant leads to BONDAGE, and the other covenant is FREE; then to which of these TWO Covenants do you teach is the renewed one?
Click to expand...

Ez, my purpose of this thread is instruction, not debating your presuppositions. I'm just not interested in arguing against what I believe is Truth.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top