2 beast, two Babylons

[Douglas Summers]

This is a continuation of Post # 1483.

The first beast in Revelation's 13 is a Gentile king or kingdom from the "sea" (mass of mankind) that is over all nations in which Israel is in servitude to also (servitude does not mean a slave to, but dependent upon) Just as they are now. This beast is the civil power and mystery kingdom or (Babylonian mystery kingdom). It is a mystery, or rather, not familiar to the saints of God, because of (Matthews chapters 5,6,and 7). For this how the kingdom of God will be governed.

This Gentile civil authority (1st. beast) becomes the authority and enforcer of religious beliefs and doctrines that are anti-christian. A glimpse into how this is possible would be the religious civil laws that replace the Spiritual teaching of Christ by this present administration. And as the anti-Christ population (like this present day), praise and look up to the head of the nations (USA). So then they will worship his authority because he takes away the guilt of sin by making sin lawful, actually making war against the saints. (Rev. 13:7-8) And they are over powered by the beast because of his laws against Christians. This is what it means when they blaspheme God or God's name and his saints. (Rev. 13:5-6) Because of the beast favor of anti-Christ doctrine and laws, all the nations praise him (worship him and his power or might under the power of Satan). These are Satan's children, and in fact, they are worshiping Satan.

But this first beast (kingdom) is eventually defeated, but returns again (Rev. 13:3). But in the end, they do not endure or prevail. God does not know them. And they live and die the same way they put the saints in captivity and killed with the sword. (Rev. 13:9-10)

Then comes another beast. (Rev. 13:11)

 

[smaller]

There are 3 Babylon's presented in the scriptures.

At the tower of Babel it is seen as confusion.

In the second Babylon, as captivity of Gods people.

At the end, the real Babylon stands up and is revealed Spiritually for what it, that MYSTERY is:

Revelation 17:5
And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

Revelation 18:2
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

When we see and apply this in reverse, we come to know more about the first two Babel, Babylon's and what they convey in the natural, as Spiritual matters.

 

[Douglas Summers]

There are 3 Babylon's presented in the scriptures.

Yes, but in Revelation, we are speaking of the meaning of the first Babylon (confusion) and applying that as a synonym to the confusion of the mass of mankind's kingdom's (the word of God mixed with the governing principles of Satan through man) And taking religion just by itself it is not pure but gross confusion upon the earth, (except to the called and born again believer). Two mysteries, both confusion, to God and His people.

In other word's, they are foreign to God, they are a mystery, He does not recognize any such teaching or doctrines. And it is confusing to see people govern and worship claiming it is His will?

Here is something amazing for those who claim to be believers,, That Christ could not return until the TV was invented. Now, everyone will be able to see Him because most everyone has a TV!!!! Outrageous!

 

[smaller]

Yes, but in Revelation, we are speaking of the meaning of the first Babylon (confusion) and applying that as a synonym to the confusion of the mass of mankind's kingdom's (the word of God mixed with the governing principles of Satan through man)

There are a LOT of things shown to us about Babylon in the scriptures. But I agree with that general assessment above with the axiom being the mixing isn't with principles, but "the principality," Satan, upon/in their minds and hearts. And yes, just as we see with the first 2 Babylon's being engaged by God Himself, so it remains today as well. God is A User of Babylon(s) for His Purposes.

And taking religion just by itself it is not pure but gross confusion upon the earth, (except to the called and born again believer). Two mysteries, both confusion, to God and His people.

In other word's, they are foreign to God, they are a mystery, He does not recognize any such teaching or doctrines. And it is confusing to see people govern and worship claiming it is His will?

It might also be seen as doing Gods Will in inverse/perverted ways. Claiming it Divinely Intended and in alignment, but nothing could be further from the truth.

Here is something amazing for those who claim to be believers,, That Christ could not return until the TV was invented. Now, everyone will be able to see Him because most everyone has a TV!!!! Outrageous!

The every eye seeing Him principle found in Rev. 1 is probably not seeing on the teevee. Satan and his messengers will also "see" the return of God in Christ. Their eyes are also included. I don't think they'll be seeing or watching on teevee. Spiritual/adverse spiritual sight is a different set of lenses, beyond the physical. Technically we have a world of physicality overlaid with invisible controllers/entities. It can be a problematic concept to grasp, especially when trying to force fit these two worlds into one state. It is as you note above, a mixture. That mixture is with flesh and adverse disobedient spirit. Eph. 2:2.

I study scriptural physical Babylon's of the O.T. to see the unseen world of our adversaries in Mystery Babylon of Rev. noted prior. There is much to be seen and had in this direction.

But hey, everybody will see differently, and will so because of Mystery Babylon, which "all" Gods people are called out from.

 

[Douglas Summers]

But hey, everybody will see differently, and will so because of Mystery Babylon, which "all" Gods people are called out from.

Amen. Come out from among them that you do not share in their judgment (2 Cor. 6:17-18)

 

[for_his_glory]

The beast rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. This beast is a Luciferian militant and religious order. The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire.

Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon.

Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire.

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire:
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. Seven of these nations are the ancestors of the modern nations of Europe.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

What was, was Roman rule from 538 AD with Emperor Justinian’s decree and under the military protection of Belisarius until the deadly wound, was not, came in 1798 by General Berthier who made his entrance into Rome and abolished the Roman government and established a secular one. This was the time when Rome persecuted the Christians and killed them which were approximately 500 million people slain for the cause of their faith in Jesus. Napoleon had closed down the this beast religious system and its power was thought to be forever broken. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave authority to bring back the beast religious system as the beast gave power to the son of perdition/false prophet and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty. This is mystery Babylon.

 

[turnorburn]

The second beast began his shenanigans on the 19th of April 1541... its only goal is to support the first beast...

 

[Douglas Summers]

The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave authority to bring back the beast religious system as the beast gave power to the son of perdition/false prophet and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty. This is mystery Babylon.

Are you a Preterist?

 

[for_his_glory]

Are you a Preterist?

No, in post #6 I was showing What was and was not and yet to come spoken of in Rev 17:8

 

[for_his_glory]

The second beast began his shenanigans on the 19th of April 1541... its only goal is to support the first beast...

 

[Douglas Summers]

No, in post #6 I was showing What was and was not and yet to come spoken of in Rev 17:8

Tell me your teaching of the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D. in Luke and it's (if any) relation to Christ prophecy Starting with Matthew chapter 24.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I saw a beast rise up out of the sea….Psalm 104:25-26 “So is this great and wide sea, wherein are things creeping innumerable, both small and great beasts.26 There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein.”

“And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?”

Who is able to make war with him?

Job 41 “Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?3 Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee?4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?”

A covenant with death….Isaiah 28:15, Isaiah 28:18 Wage of sin is death…worshipping the Dragon is serving his desire= sin.

Whosoever sins is the servant of sin.

“And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I saw a beast rise up out of the sea….Psalm 104:25-26 “So is this great and wide sea, wherein are things creeping innumerable, both small and great beasts.26 There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein.”

“And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?”

Who is able to make war with him?

Job 41 “Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?3 Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee?4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?”

A covenant with death….Isaiah 28:15, Isaiah 28:18 Wage of sin is death…worshipping the Dragon is serving his desire= sin.

Whosoever sins is the servant of sin.

“And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”

Romans 7:23 “But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.”

Who is able to make war with him?

7 Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears?8 Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more.9 Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?10 None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?”

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;”

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Who can make war with him?

“The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.28 The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.29 Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear.” …33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.” (Revelation 9:11)

Ephesians 6:12 “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Revelation 9:11 “And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. =Destroyer=Destruction

Ecclesiastes 9:18 “Wisdom is better than weapons of war: but one sinner destroyeth much good.

James 4:1 “From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?”

1 Peter 2:11 “Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

Who will make war with him?

Revelation 17:14 “These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Isaiah 27:1 “In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.”

Revelation 20:2 “And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

 

[for_his_glory]

Tell me your teaching of the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D. in Luke and it's (if any) relation to Christ prophecy Starting with Matthew chapter 24.

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to show him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Israel (those who follow after Judaism seeking other gods) lost there right to be called Gods chosen people, but God did save a generational remnant out of the 12 tribes who have always been faithful to God in their obedience to His commandments, 1Kings 9:1-9; Rev 7. God’s judgment against them led them to be captured, 605 – 537 B.C., by Nebuchadnezzar and taken into Babylon for seventy years while Nebuchadnezzar’s army killed many Jews in Judah and Jerusalem destroying the whole city of Jerusalem including the first Temple that was built through King Solomon’s reign in Jerusalem.

The second Temple was built under Ezra’s leadership and Israel continued practicing Judaism and their Temple was desecrated as part of an effort to impose Greek-oriented culture and customs on the entire population. Roman rule refurbished the temple as Herod, Romans vassal king, rules the land of Israel. In 70 A.D. the Temple is once again destroyed. The Temple Mount was taken over in 691 A.D. as the Arab nation built the Dome of the Rock and there has not been any other Temple built since that time on the original Temple Mount.

Rev 13 the beast (revived Babylonian Empire) rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. This beast out of the sea gives power to the beast out of the earth who is the son of perdition/false prophet, 2Thessalonians 2:3-12 who will declare a peace treaty, 1Thessalonians 5:1-5, with the Arab nations and we be given the refurbished (being refurbished now) Dome of the Rock (Temple Mount) where he will sit on his throne to rule over the nations. This is the abomination that causes desolation that Daniel spoke of in Daniel Chapter 7 and that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:15,16.

 

[eddif]

Oh well. I guess I will open myself up to being checked out ( my thoughts checked out).

Beasts of Babylon:
Ignoring God as creator
Refusing to worship the creator, and worshiping creation (including man)
Others(?)

How does God intervene?

Adam and Eve removed from Garden got their attention
Confusion at Babel stopped the spread of heresy. (Making a name for themselves)
Destruction at the Flood slowed: ( heart only evil continually)
40 years of wilderness wandering slowed (rebellion)
400 years of destruction of Jerusalem pretty much stopped (idol worship)

Daniel 4:30 KJV
The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?
31 While the word was in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee.
32 And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

Modern man says we walked out of the sea (evolution - no creator God)
Modern man exalts himself (Jesus left out of most everything)

If we confess our sins he works

Of course the heat index was pretty high today in Mississippi, and fried my natural self clearing new ground.
All that was left was a cry for his provision.

eddif

 

[smaller]

How does God intervene?

With destruction. What destroys the anti-Christ spirits? The eternal things of God. Mercy and kindness, primarily. And Love, of course. The waters of Noah that Jesus speaks of in the Gospels is also referenced in Isaiah 54:5-13.

It is NOT like believers commonly think. It is in fact the opposite of what most tend to see.

Romans 12:20
Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

 

[eddif]

With destruction. What destroys the anti-Christ spirits? The eternal things of God. Mercy and kindness, primarily. And Love, of course. The waters of Noah that Jesus speaks of in the Gospels is also referenced in Isaiah 54:5-13.

It is NOT like believers commonly think. It is in fact the opposite of what most tend to see.

Romans 12:20
Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

I Corinthians 5:5 KJV
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

You done good. I did the time under the OC / OT first. Which was a foreshadowing of the wrath of God being poured out on Jesus that eternal life could exist.

Only under the NC / NT do we really see the eternal make itself known (through Christ Jesus). To some folks everything is in parables. The first list was about actions that were temporal in form.

This thread is looking at the beasts of Babylon. Their temporal punishment is seen and the eternal destruction is seen too:
The temporary punishment is only temporary, but leads to repentance, the first repentance from dead works of John and then repentance in Christ Jesus - which is probably another thread in itself).

Repentance leads to continuing to see the eternal solution in accepting what Jesus accomplished, and not turn back to dead works of the flesh (circumcision party). Repentance also is seeing ourselves trying to get off track after having escaped the wrath to come and receiving the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is then sent to help reveal and teach others.

The love of God is double sided. The rod and staff comfort the believer. Hugs and swats direct us. Sticky sweet is true, as well as is church discipline. Sometimes a person (or persons) will choose just the punishment or just the hugs, but both exist.

To turn one over for the destruction of the flesh is love, but only as an incentive to continue to rely on the eternal work of Jesus.

Ok. Very complicated at times, but with simple solutions.
Repent
Accept Jesus for the remission of sins
Receive the Holy Spirit that you might receive power to be a witness.

eddif

 

[smaller]

I Corinthians 5:5 KJV
Only under the NC / NT do we really see the eternal make itself known (through Christ Jesus). To some folks everything is in parables. The first list was about actions that were temporal in form.

Very good sight! Yes indeed. What we see in the O.T. are actions with the first, the natural man, who does not comprehend. Even with Jesus coming as a natural man. Even with the church, natural first. This IS Gods Order of Business in the earth. So even with the first 2 Babel, Babylons they are first shown in the natural order. Which leads to the "final solution," pardon the term, final solution being dissolution of Mystery Babylon.

All the death and woe we see in Revelation may include some unpleasant matters for the flesh, but that has always been the case. The real bad actors however are the ones who are going to suffer and these are NOT visible. They are in fact the kings of the earth, the rulers of the flesh. And these, this entire family, unseen, are going to have a very Great Tribulation. For which "we" as believers should rejoice. And even though I would not discount some pain along the way for our own flesh.

This thread is looking at the beasts of Babylon. Their temporal punishment is seen and the eternal destruction is seen too:

Think of it this way. The destruction of the world's populace by flood and S&G by fire was a warning to man? OR a warning to the rulers of the flesh? Count me in the latter sight. The bad actors unseen who existed at the time of the destruction of the flood and of fire are still on earth. They have not yet passed away like our flesh passes away. The devil is still here walking his domain, as are "his own" family and kingdom.

Scripture does depict the unseen, which is why it is so fascinatingly unique. Better than any science fiction novels ever written, IF one considers the reality of it.