Bible Study How Many Judgments Are There?

[KevinK]

When Judgement Day occurs, all souls will be judged, and the damned go into the final lake of fire (Gehenna) along with Satan and his demonic minions. In the meantime, when a person dies aren't they "immediately" judged and if damned sent to the current hell (Sheol, also called Hades)? I understand the Bible mentions a first and second death. Does that mean there are also 2 judgments? Is it then possible to fail the first time, but be saved the second and final time? Forgive me if this is a basic question.

 

[Angel]

Good question... I am confused about all this too. Hopefully someone can help us understand.

 

[KevinK]

Glad I'm not the only one who was wondering this. I wasn't even sure if the question made sense.

 

[TOG]

There will be two judgments - one at the first resurrection when Jesus returns, and another 1000 years later when the unsaved will be judged. Since neither of those judgments has taken place yet, there is no-one in Heaven or Hell yet. People who have died are currently unconscious and know nothing and will know nothing until they are judged. Since they are completely unaware of their surroundings or of the passage of time, it will seem to them that they are immediately judged, even if thousands of years have actually past.

The TOG​

 

[KevinK]

So you don't believe people like Bill Weise and Mary Katherine Baxter who say the Lord brought them to Hell to see the fate of the damned?

 

[th1b.taylor]

TOG came close, as I understand it, to answering your question. Much incorrect discernment [judgement] is available that is rooted in the lack of study. One important but glossed over fact is that God's ways are not our ways and we must cease trying to "contain" God within a framework created by ourselves.

Remembering this truth is essential when dealing with all matters concerning what God will, will not, does and will not do. God has declared the Bema Seat Judgement and the Great White Throne Judgement that will occur. The Greeks, after the Olympics, stood the Bema Seat Judgement to receive their rewards and the Christian teacher often use the example and the title, Bema Seat Judgement, to exemplify the receiving of the Crowns we will then cast to the feet of our LORD.

The Great White Throne Judgement, spoken directly of in the scriptures, is the Second Judgement of the people held in Hell awaiting their final destination, the Lake of Fire, a.k.a. the Bottomless Pit. In the opinions of men it is easy to determine, incorrectly, that the Lost suffer two judgements because they are not immediately in the presence of God but are "warehoused" in Hell awaiting the Great White Throne Judgement.

But, if we drop the current Revisionist Ideology and return to Absolutes Truths we see that men are often held in county and City Jails until they are judged for thier misdeeds. This is a living analogy of the present condition of the people in Hell, as viewed from the perspective of God.

I pray this has answered your concerns. May God bless.

 

[th1b.taylor]

So you don't believe people like Bill Weise and Mary Katherine Baxter who say the Lord brought them to Hell to see the fate of the damned?

When any person's testimony does not align with what god has had recorded for our guidance it is easily dismissed. I once did some Special Music in Bill's church and worked with a couple of his descendants to help them learn to play instruments. I did one Special there and refused to do any more because of the heresy I witnessed in his church occurring with his stamp of approval.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I apologize, I just looked Bill up on Google and this one appears to be the grandson I was trying to teach to play. But he grew up in that church so I will still stand by my words.

 

[Kathi]

Their are two judgments.The Judgment Seat of Christ/Bema Seat judgment for the believers and The Great White Throne judgment for the unbelievers.
The second death is a "death" that is separation from God of the unbelievers.It is called the "second" death because it follows physical death.

 

[KevinK]

Thanks for all the replies so far, lots to think about. I can't believe I was brought up in the RCC (including university!) and was never exposed to some of these terms. Not bashing on RCC, just registering surprise.

As far as Bill Weise, I have never met or seen the man, and have nothing for or against him per se. In his defense I will say that he says not to listen to him, but to read Scripture. He's just acting as a signpost. I can't remember for the moment whether Baxter says the same thing.

If anyone else wants to throw up their interpretation, please by all means. I'm all ears at this point.

 

[Kathi]

Their has been the book and movie "Heaven Is For Real".About the four year old that said he experienced NDE.His dad wrote the book.What do you think about that?

 

[KevinK]

Their has been the book and movie "Heaven Is For Real".About the four year old that said he experienced NDE.His dad wrote the book.What do you think about that?

I read the book. Remember my viewpoint on these NDE/OOB accounts will be somewhat influenced because I'm one of the people who had one. What I think is these experiences are for the most part valid paranormal (spiritual) experiences; the real question is where they are coming from. I believe both Jesus and the Enemy (Satan) are throwing these visions up, in a contest that will at some point spill onto the Earth (Revelations stuff). The Enemy is very, very clever. He knows how to concoct convincing and seductive visions. In general, these are the ones that have a more "New Age" feel to them. The information from Our Lord leans toward the more conservative and Scriptural, as you would expect. I personally believe there is valid new information the Lord is trying to transmit to us; some of it won't be in the Bible simply because it's a book, and a printed book cannot physically hold all the information in the Universe. The devil, if you will, is in the details, and our work is separating the wheat from the chaff, i.e. God's Holy Truth from the lies of Satan. So that's where I'm at. How about yourself?

 

[th1b.taylor]

Thanks for all the replies so far, lots to think about. I can't believe I was brought up in the RCC (including university!) and was never exposed to some of these terms. Not bashing on RCC, just registering surprise.

As far as Bill Weise, I have never met or seen the man, and have nothing for or against him per se. In his defense I will say that he says not to listen to him, but to read Scripture. He's just acting as a signpost. I can't remember for the moment whether Baxter says the same thing.

If anyone else wants to throw up their interpretation, please by all means. I'm all ears at this point.

Actually, I'm very glad to hear he has taken that position. Perhaps the LORD was busy as Bill was was picking up points on playing with the Worship Team because, if this is the original Bill Weise's grandson from Houston, Texas, I do remember both the grandson and the granddaughter asking me my position on teaching the Word from, the pulpit and, of course, I have always taught that one becomes a fool for taking my word on matters concerning God and that, until Jesus returns, the Bible, in context, is the Christian's and, whether they like it or not, the Lost Man's Court Of Final Arbitration.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I read the book. Remember my viewpoint on these NDE/OOB accounts will be somewhat influenced because I'm one of the people who had one. What I think is these experiences are for the most part valid paranormal (spiritual) experiences; the real question is where they are coming from. I believe both Jesus and the Enemy (Satan) are throwing these visions up, in a contest that will at some point spill onto the Earth (Revelations stuff). The Enemy is very, very clever. He knows how to concoct convincing and seductive visions. In general, these are the ones that have a more "New Age" feel to them. The information from Our Lord leans toward the more conservative and Scriptural, as you would expect. I personally believe there is valid new information the Lord is trying to transmit to us; some of it won't be in the Bible simply because it's a book, and a printed book cannot physically hold all the information in the Universe. The devil, if you will, is in the details, and our work is separating the wheat from the chaff, i.e. God's Holy Truth from the lies of Satan. So that's where I'm at. How about yourself?

I, too, have read the book, and having had enough experience, previously, will not and have chosen not to pay to see the film. In truth, if any book or any film fails to align with or contradicts the God inspired Bible, it cannot be true because the Word of God is, absolutely true. I did not find anything in Heaven Is For Real that does not align with the scriptures but neither did I find any "New" revelations and had I, it would not be resident in our Curch Library.

 

[KevinK]

TOG came close, as I understand it, to answering your question. Much incorrect discernment [judgement] is available that is rooted in the lack of study. One important but glossed over fact is that God's ways are not our ways and we must cease trying to "contain" God within a framework created by ourselves.

Remembering this truth is essential when dealing with all matters concerning what God will, will not, does and will not do. God has declared the Bema Seat Judgement and the Great White Throne Judgement that will occur. The Greeks, after the Olympics, stood the Bema Seat Judgement to receive their rewards and the Christian teacher often use the example and the title, Bema Seat Judgement, to exemplify the receiving of the Crowns we will then cast to the feet of our LORD.

The Great White Throne Judgement, spoken directly of in the scriptures, is the Second Judgement of the people held in Hell awaiting their final destination, the Lake of Fire, a.k.a. the Bottomless Pit. In the opinions of men it is easy to determine, incorrectly, that the Lost suffer two judgements because they are not immediately in the presence of God but are "warehoused" in Hell awaiting the Great White Throne Judgement.

But, if we drop the current Revisionist Ideology and return to Absolutes Truths we see that men are often held in county and City Jails until they are judged for thier misdeeds. This is a living analogy of the present condition of the people in Hell, as viewed from the perspective of God.

I pray this has answered your concerns. May God bless.

I must admit, you've lost me here. Haven't a clue.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I must admit, you've lost me here. Haven't a clue.

Except you tell me what you don't get I am unable to help you because i explained it a simply as I know how,

 

[Kathi]

I read the book. Remember my viewpoint on these NDE/OOB accounts will be somewhat influenced because I'm one of the people who had one. What I think is these experiences are for the most part valid paranormal (spiritual) experiences; the real question is where they are coming from. I believe both Jesus and the Enemy (Satan) are throwing these visions up, in a contest that will at some point spill onto the Earth (Revelations stuff). The Enemy is very, very clever. He knows how to concoct convincing and seductive visions. In general, these are the ones that have a more "New Age" feel to them. The information from Our Lord leans toward the more conservative and Scriptural, as you would expect. I personally believe there is valid new information the Lord is trying to transmit to us; some of it won't be in the Bible simply because it's a book, and a printed book cannot physically hold all the information in the Universe. The devil, if you will, is in the details, and our work is separating the wheat from the chaff, i.e. God's Holy Truth from the lies of Satan. So that's where I'm at. How about yourself?

A person who says they have had a NDE need to be very careful that they are not seeing what they think is a Godly experience but is actually seeing what Satan whats them to think is a Godly experience.Certain drugs and anesthesia can also make a person hallucinate.Everything that person related who has had a NDE has to lineup with Scripture.Several years ago I read a book by a lady who said she had a NDE.She was in the hospital.She claimed that she went to heaven for awhile and talked to Jesus and Jesus told her to do all of these things and tell people all of these things when she returned back to earth.I ditched that book really fast.I got a sick feeling when I was reading it.

 

[KevinK]

Except you tell me what you don't get I am unable to help you because i explained it a simply as I know how,

Well, it's me and not you. Your explanation was perfect. It's just I have never even heard of some of these terms before.

 

[KevinK]

A person who says they have had a NDE need to be very careful that they are not seeing what they think is a Godly experience but is actually seeing what Satan whats them to think is a Godly experience.Certain drugs and anesthesia can also make a person hallucinate.Everything that person related who has had a NDE has to lineup with Scripture.Several years ago I read a book by a lady who said she had a NDE.She was in the hospital.She claimed that she went to heaven for awhile and talked to Jesus and Jesus told her to do all of these things and tell people all of these things when she returned back to earth.I ditched that book really fast.I got a sick feeling when I was reading it.

Actually mine was an out-of-body. I am very cognizant of the danger you are talking about. That's what I'm trying to sort out. Thank you for your help so far, both of you.

 

[KevinK]

Their are two judgments.The Judgment Seat of Christ/Bema Seat judgment for the believers and The Great White Throne judgment for the unbelievers.
The second death is a "death" that is separation from God of the unbelievers.It is called the "second" death because it follows physical death.

Rev 20:14 says "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." Is this what you're talking about?