Bible Study Two Covenants: The Old and New

[ezrider]

Matt 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

What does it mean to inherit the earth? Have we already inherited the earth? Or are we waiting for some future kingdom in which we hope to inherit the earth? Both positions I believe could be argued for from the scripture, but the difference in the answer would more than likely depend upon which covenant with God your beliefs align with: The old covenant or the new covenant.

The old covenant was one of obedience to the Law, the new covenant is of Grace and obedience to Faith. But the differences between the two are much more than just a simplified phrase.

The old covenant was not just a covenant with a people, it was a covenant with a nation; the earthly kingdom of Israel. In the old testament the prophets foretold of the judgement of the nation. The Kingdom of Israel was judged and divide into two kingdoms; The nation Israel was judged when they were conquered by the Assyrians, and the peoples of that nation were scattered abroad. The remaining kingdom of Judah and Jerusalem were judged when they were carried off to Babylon and Jerusalem was destroyed. The nation of Israel (Judah) and Jerusalem were judged again according the old covenant and according to the prophecy of Jesus when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans, and the peoples were scattered abroad.

The new covenant is still a covenant with a people, and it is a covenant with a kingdom; but in this case it is not an earthly kingdom, it is a spiritual kingdom, it is the Kingdom of Heaven, and Jesus is our Lord, Priest and King.

Under the old covenant the Law required that those guilty of certain sins, for instance an adulterer, was to be stoned to death so that the nation might remain clean in the face of judgement according to the Law under the old covenant. Yet when faced with the adulterer, Jesus demonstrated the mercy demanded of the new covenant when he challenged them by saying he who is without sin cast the first stone; making an open show of those principalities and powers.

Our relationship with God is a covenant relationship. And the way we perceive and interpret the scriptures, both the law and the prophets, depends upon how we perceive our covenant relationship with God. Most people would claim that they are under the new covenant, yet their character still reflects an old covenant relationship. For example, Christians will hold up the Bible and the Law of Moses as their justification and in their defense for fighting against homosexual marriage because they believe they would be condoning it otherwise, and if they were to permit it, then God would bring judgement upon the nation: this is an old covenant mindset.

I believe if our relationship with God through Christ is viewed through an old covenant lens, then that person tends to see Matt 24 as a yet future judgement; But if our relationship is viewed through a new covenant lens, then that person tends to see Matt 24 as already being fulfilled. The tares of the field are of the old covenant, the wheat are of the new. The characteristics of these Covenant relationships we have through Christ I believe effects our application of Law and colors our views on Prophecy, and may help explain why two people can see the same scripture so differently.

I think everyone recognizes that there are two Covenants, the Old and the New. What I hope to achieve in this study with the assistance of all who wish to participate, is to use some scriptural references that can help to define the characteristics of both the old and the new covenants. What are their similarities, and what are their differences?

I am posting this thread in the Bible Study forum because it is not a debate forum. My intent in this thread is to simply examine the characteristics of the two covenants. If this topic generates some interest, then I hope to start a sister thread eventually in the appropriate forum where we can debate how these characteristics might reflect on our judgement and interpretation of prophecy.

 

[ezrider]

Galatians 4:21-27 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not:for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

 

[for_his_glory]

Law vs. grace, which one are we under or are we under both! Some believe all 613 Mosaic laws were fulfilled in Christ and some only believe we only have ten of them to keep as they are separate from the other 613. Logic tells us if God loves all His creation then His grace covers everyone and all will go to heaven. It always comes down to what and how one is taught doctrine and becomes a battle field when it is debated. I would dare say there are more that have never even heard of or even taken the time to read all 613 laws to see what has actually been fulfilled in Christ then there are that have taken the time for a deeper truth. Do all of the laws only apply to that of the Hebrews or do some parts of the law apply even after grace as in keeping those certain laws as they are written on our hearts. Sometimes you just have to empty your mind of all the teachings you have ever heard on this topic of law vs. grace and go straight to the source which is the word of God to find out what He has already said.

The only laws that were done away with or fulfilled were that of the Temple and the sacrifices as the physical Temple and it's sacrifices no longer exist under grace by Christ fulfillment of them, Matthew 5:17,18. We are now that temple that the Holy Spirit dwells in, not our flesh for that will turn back to the dust of the ground and will never enter the kingdom of God, but that of our spirit making union with that of Gods Spirit through His grace that is freely given, not by works, but as a fee gift of Gods love, Mark 7:14-23; 1 Corinthians 3:16,17; 6:19; Ephesians 2:8-18.

The books of the NT are not part of the Hebrew scriptures (Torah or the Tanakh), but that of instruction of Gods righteousness as God has given first to the Hebrew a new covenant of grace and then extended His grace to those outside of Israel (Gentiles) the same free gift of His grace, Romans 15:16. When we being that of a Gentile nation partake in that of Christ life, death and resurrection our inner man (spirit, not this flesh) is renewed by that of Gods Holy Spirit, John 3:5, 6, as we are led by the Holy Spirit to guide us and teach us all truths, John 14:26, but we are still under the moral laws of Gods commandments that are written upon our hearts that we need to keep until that of Christ return.

There are laws that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws for us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood, the poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family, forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants, vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures, injuries and damages, property and property rights, Criminal laws, prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws keep us in line with the will of God that we present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow that light of Christ shines in us and through us as a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.

 

[th1b.taylor]

EZ,
I've thinking, praying and studying this for a long time now and I am still having a problem finding two covenants for salvation in spite of the mass profession that such is the case. Mankind (man) has never been saved except by the Grace of God because of our faith and even that faith is of God and not of ourselves. God knew, thousands of years before He gave the Ten Commandments and the six hundred and three example of how to obey the Ten to Moses, that there would never be a single person before nor after Jesus that could hope to live the perfect Law... we were imperfect as soon as Adam took of the forbidden fruit.

Even Abraham is saved by the Grace of God.

 

[ezrider]

Law vs. grace, which one are we under or are we under both! Some believe all 613 Mosaic laws were fulfilled in Christ and some only believe we only have ten of them to keep as they are separate from the other 613. Logic tells us if God loves all His creation then His grace covers everyone and all will go to heaven. It always comes down to what and how one is taught doctrine and becomes a battle field when it is debated. I would dare say there are more that have never even heard of or even taken the time to read all 613 laws to see what has actually been fulfilled in Christ then there are that have taken the time for a deeper truth. Do all of the laws only apply to that of the Hebrews or do some parts of the law apply even after grace as in keeping those certain laws as they are written on our hearts. Sometimes you just have to empty your mind of all the teachings you have ever heard on this topic of law vs. grace and go straight to the source which is the word of God to find out what He has already said.

The only laws that were done away with or fulfilled were that of the Temple and the sacrifices as the physical Temple and it's sacrifices no longer exist under grace by Christ fulfillment of them, Matthew 5:17,18. We are now that temple that the Holy Spirit dwells in, not our flesh for that will turn back to the dust of the ground and will never enter the kingdom of God, but that of our spirit making union with that of Gods Spirit through His grace that is freely given, not by works, but as a fee gift of Gods love, Mark 7:14-23; 1 Corinthians 3:16,17; 6:19; Ephesians 2:8-18.

The books of the NT are not part of the Hebrew scriptures (Torah or the Tanakh), but that of instruction of Gods righteousness as God has given first to the Hebrew a new covenant of grace and then extended His grace to those outside of Israel (Gentiles) the same free gift of His grace, Romans 15:16. When we being that of a Gentile nation partake in that of Christ life, death and resurrection our inner man (spirit, not this flesh) is renewed by that of Gods Holy Spirit, John 3:5, 6, as we are led by the Holy Spirit to guide us and teach us all truths, John 14:26, but we are still under the moral laws of Gods commandments that are written upon our hearts that we need to keep until that of Christ return.

There are laws that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws for us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood, the poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family, forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants, vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures, injuries and damages, property and property rights, Criminal laws, prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws keep us in line with the will of God that we present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow that light of Christ shines in us and through us as a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.

Thank you for responding, but the law is not the topic of discussion. The Law does not define the covenant relationship we have with God, but our covenant relationship does influence the application of those laws. Whether some think that all 613 Mosaic Laws were fulfilled in Christ, or whether Christ simply fulfilled the law by virtue of the commandment given in Deut 18:15-19 does not matter for the sake of this discussion.

What are some of the differences that you see between the old and new covenants?

 

[follower]

...
What are some of the differences that you see between the old and new covenants?

first, i think i have met only about 12 people in my life who showed that they were in covenant with Yhvh under the new covenant. might be more than that, might be less, but it's very few compared to people who think Yhvh is going to bless them for whatever 'reason' they were told.

okay, if i remember right, the 'old' covenant - i think it was '2 way' > i.e. required as part of the covenant for Yhvh to do His part and for men to do their part. the 'new' covenant is basically all Yhvh's responsibility to accomplish, and it is done(finished), whole and completed (His Part). ecclesia who are immersed in Yeshua partake of the new covenant in amazing sheer grace. their lives are no longer their own, they are His, completely. (by grace in Yeshua through faith, a gift from Yhvh)

 

[ezrider]

EZ,
I've thinking, praying and studying this for a long time now and I am still having a problem finding two covenants for salvation in spite of the mass profession that such is the case. Mankind (man) has never been saved except by the Grace of God because of our faith and even that faith is of God and not of ourselves. God knew, thousands of years before He gave the Ten Commandments and the six hundred and three example of how to obey the Ten to Moses, that there would never be a single person before nor after Jesus that could hope to live the perfect Law... we were imperfect as soon as Adam took of the forbidden fruit.

Even Abraham is saved by the Grace of God.

Thanks Bill,
I am not looking at this in the sense that there are two covenants for salvation. I believe the new covenant to be the only covenant for salvation. But I believe there are many people who view their relationship with the Lord from an old covenant perspective, only they have accepted the sacrifice of Christ in lieu of the blood of goats and bulls.

John 5:25-29 speaks of the resurrection to life and the resurrection to death. Those who overcome of the fisrt resurrection, the second death hath no power.
Romans 14:9 speaks to the fact that Jesus both died and rose so he might become Lord of both the living and the dead.

I believe these are characteristics of the new and old covenants. The new and the old, the living and the dead.

 

[JLB]

Matt 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

What does it mean to inherit the earth? Have we already inherited the earth? Or are we waiting for some future kingdom in which we hope to inherit the earth? Both positions I believe could be argued for from the scripture, but the difference in the answer would more than likely depend upon which covenant with God your beliefs align with: The old covenant or the new covenant.

The old covenant was one of obedience to the Law, the new covenant is of Grace and obedience to Faith. But the differences between the two are much more than just a simplified phrase.

The old covenant was not just a covenant with a people, it was a covenant with a nation; the earthly kingdom of Israel. In the old testament the prophets foretold of the judgement of the nation. The Kingdom of Israel was judged and divide into two kingdoms; The nation Israel was judged when they were conquered by the Assyrians, and the peoples of that nation were scattered abroad. The remaining kingdom of Judah and Jerusalem were judged when they were carried off to Babylon and Jerusalem was destroyed. The nation of Israel (Judah) and Jerusalem were judged again according the old covenant and according to the prophecy of Jesus when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans, and the peoples were scattered abroad.

The new covenant is still a covenant with a people, and it is a covenant with a kingdom; but in this case it is not an earthly kingdom, it is a spiritual kingdom, it is the Kingdom of Heaven, and Jesus is our Lord, Priest and King.

Under the old covenant the Law required that those guilty of certain sins, for instance an adulterer, was to be stoned to death so that the nation might remain clean in the face of judgement according to the Law under the old covenant. Yet when faced with the adulterer, Jesus demonstrated the mercy demanded of the new covenant when he challenged them by saying he who is without sin cast the first stone; making an open show of those principalities and powers.

Our relationship with God is a covenant relationship. And the way we perceive and interpret the scriptures, both the law and the prophets, depends upon how we perceive our covenant relationship with God. Most people would claim that they are under the new covenant, yet their character still reflects an old covenant relationship. For example, Christians will hold up the Bible and the Law of Moses as their justification and in their defense for fighting against homosexual marriage because they believe they would be condoning it otherwise, and if they were to permit it, then God would bring judgement upon the nation: this is an old covenant mindset.

I believe if our relationship with God through Christ is viewed through an old covenant lens, then that person tends to see Matt 24 as a yet future judgement; But if our relationship is viewed through a new covenant lens, then that person tends to see Matt 24 as already being fulfilled. The tares of the field are of the old covenant, the wheat are of the new. The characteristics of these Covenant relationships we have through Christ I believe effects our application of Law and colors our views on Prophecy, and may help explain why two people can see the same scripture so differently.

I think everyone recognizes that there are two Covenants, the Old and the New. What I hope to achieve in this study with the assistance of all who wish to participate, is to use some scriptural references that can help to define the characteristics of both the old and the new covenants. What are their similarities, and what are their differences?

I am posting this thread in the Bible Study forum because it is not a debate forum. My intent in this thread is to simply examine the characteristics of the two covenants. If this topic generates some interest, then I hope to start a sister thread eventually in the appropriate forum where we can debate how these characteristics might reflect on our judgement and interpretation of prophecy.

The way I see the scripture is: There is one Covenant that concerns us, The Abrahamic Covenant!

The New Covenant is not a New as in different Covenant, but New as in fresh or upgraded.

The Law was added to this Covenant until the Seed should come. Galatians 3:19 It became obsolete and vanished away. Hebrews 8:13

In the New Covenant we are given a new divine nature that is compatible with the Holy Spirit, like Adam had before the fall.

Yet we are still grafted into the Natural Olive tree, and supported by that Root. The Root is the Lord and the Covenant with Abraham.

We have become partakers of the commonwealth of Israel.

There is One Covenant.


JLB

 

[ezrider]

Jeremiah 31:27-34
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord,
that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah
with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them,
to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down,
and to destroy, and to afflict;
so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the Lord.
In those days they shall say no more,
The fathers have eaten a sour grape,
and the children's teeth are set on edge.
But every one shall die for his own iniquity:
every man that eateth the sour grape,
his teeth shall be set on edge.
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord,
that I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
in the day that I took them by the hand
to bring them out of the land of Egypt;
which my covenant they brake,
although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the Lord,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
and write it in their hearts;
and will be their God,
and they shall be my people

 

[ezrider]

The way I see the scripture is: There is one Covenant that concerns us, The Abrahamic Covenant!

The New Covenant is not a New as in different Covenant, but New as in fresh or upgraded.

The Law was added to this Covenant until the Seed should come. Galatians 3:19 It became obsolete and vanished away. Hebrews 8:13

In the New Covenant we are given a new divine nature that is compatible with the Holy Spirit, like Adam had before the fall.

Yet we are still grafted into the Natural Olive tree, and supported by that Root. The Root is the Lord and the Covenant with Abraham.

We have become partakers of the commonwealth of Israel.

There is One Covenant.


JLB

Deut 5:2-3 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

 

[JLB]

Deut 5:2-3 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

Exactly!

The law was added... Because of transgressions! Transgressions to the Abrahamic Covenant.

The law was added to the Abrahamic covenant UNTIL the Seed...

The law did not take them out of the Abrahamic Covenant, but was designed as a fence around the Covenant to keep them in!

Abraham was not required to sacrifice animals, nor submit to a Levitical priesthood, not keep the sabbath requirements, not ceremonial washings, not feast days...

Which all of these were a tutor to lead them to Christ.


JLB

 

[th1b.taylor]

Thanks Bill,
I am not looking at this in the sense that there are two covenants for salvation. I believe the new covenant to be the only covenant for salvation. But I believe there are many people who view their relationship with the Lord from an old covenant perspective, only they have accepted the sacrifice of Christ in lieu of the blood of goats and bulls.

John 5:25-29 speaks of the resurrection to life and the resurrection to death. Those who overcome of the fisrt resurrection, the second death hath no power.
Romans 14:9 speaks to the fact that Jesus both died and rose so he might become Lord of both the living and the dead.

I believe these are characteristics of the new and old covenants. The new and the old, the living and the dead.

I see that now. I was convicted early on that there has only, ever, been one covenant, anyway. To take any other view we need to, of necessity try the impossible and modify some of the attributes of God. I have noticed, since my conversion, that people in the Church lean heavily towards believing God expected the Jewish Believer to fulfill the so called Mosaic Covenant and if that were to be true, God would at some point have had to be capricious because He knew before the creation of the world that only Jesus could have fulfilled the perfection the Law requires.

I have long seen the Mosaic Law as the most beautiful word picture of God, the example of what we strive to become. And God, knowing we could not make the desired target on our own, then, spelled out how Abraham was saved in, what is known, today, as the New Covenant. When we examine Abraham we find a man that did so much wrong. He lied and almost caused Sarah, when she was still Sarai, to engage in a love triangle. He disobeyed and disbelieved God enough to allow Sarah to convince him to shack with her maid. The list just goes on and every man, woman and child can rejoice when we study Abraham, the Law and the covenant of grace.

God bless and good study.

 

[ezrider]

Exactly!

The law was added... Because of transgressions! Transgressions to the Abrahamic Covenant.

The law was added to the Abrahamic covenant UNTIL the Seed...

The law did not take them out of the Abrahamic Covenant, but was designed as a fence around the Covenant to keep them in!

Abraham was not required to sacrifice animals, nor submit to a Levitical priesthood, not keep the sabbath requirements, not ceremonial washings, not feast days...

Which all of these were a tutor to lead them to Christ.


JLB

JLB, you keep saying that the law was added to the Abrahamic Covenant, but that in my opinion is incorrect. In light of the scriptures I posted from Jer 31:31-32 and Deut 5:2-3 that these are in fact two separate and distinct covenants.
The Scripture said that the law was added until... But the only thing the law could have been added to would have been the Mosaic Covenant, because the Abrahamic Covenant was not confirmed and sealed until the sacrifice was offered up upon the cross.
Could not the phrase the law was added unto.... the Mosaic Covenant; simply mean that the 613 Mosaic laws were added unto the original 10 Commandments given when the Mosaic Covenant was sealed by a sacrifice?

 

[JLB]

JLB, you keep saying that the law was added to the Abrahamic Covenant, but that in my opinion is incorrect. In light of the scriptures I posted from Jer 31:31-32 and Deut 5:2-3 that these are in fact two separate and distinct covenants.
The Scripture said that the law was added until... But the only thing the law could have been added to would have been the Mosaic Covenant, because the Abrahamic Covenant was not confirmed and sealed until the sacrifice was offered up upon the cross.
Could not the phrase the law was added unto.... the Mosaic Covenant; simply mean that the 613 Mosaic laws were added unto the original 10 Commandments given when the Mosaic Covenant was sealed by a sacrifice?

15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man's covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.


Key Phrase: ...that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ.

This phrase sets the context about what the law was added to.

• By saying "added", the Holy Spirit is indicating the law was a part of something greater.

• By saying "till", the Holy Spirit is indicating the law was temporary.

JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

God established many covenants so why would there be just two.

With Noah to save him and his family, Genesis 6:18

With Noah and his descendants to never again destroy the world by flood. (Genesis 9:9-17)

With Abram to give him and his descendants the land we call Israel today and to destroy the inhabitants of that land because of their great sins (Genesis 15:18-21)

God's follow-up with Abram, changing his name to Abraham, and designating him the father of many nations and millions of descendants, and adding the covenant of circumcision, and promising him Isaac as a son and the inheritor of it (Genesis chapter 17). God made His with Abraham unconditional. (Genesis 22:12-18)

God's conditional one with the children of Israel, requiring their keeping God's law and circumcision, in return for physical blessings (Exodus 19-4). Further terms (conditions) of this covenant were expounded later (Leviticus chapters 25-27; Deuteronomy chapters 29- 31).

With the children of Israel concerning the Sabbath. (Exodus 31:14-18)

God's concerning the Ten Commandments and Holy Days designated by God. (Exodus 34:10 - 35)

God's concerning the bread in the Tabernacle, and later the Temple, to be eaten only by the priests, descendants of Aaron. (Leviticus 24:8,9)

God promised a new covenant in the Bible. (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

God, in the Bible, spoke of His unconditional covenant with King David of Israel and of His continuing, unconditional covenant with Jacob's descendants. (Jeremiah 33:19-36)

God spoke of "divorcing" Israel and Judah, thus ending the earlier covenant, and of establishing a new one with them. (Ezekiel 16:59-63)

The most important one - the new covenant - established by Jesus upon His death. (Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews chapters 7 - 10). Paul described the only new ritual of it. (1Corinthians 11:23-30)

 

[JLB]

God established many covenants so why would there be just two.

With Noah to save him and his family, Genesis 6:18

With Noah and his descendants to never again destroy the world by flood. (Genesis 9:9-17)

With Abram to give him and his descendants the land we call Israel today and to destroy the inhabitants of that land because of their great sins (Genesis 15:18-21)

God's follow-up with Abram, changing his name to Abraham, and designating him the father of many nations and millions of descendants, and adding the covenant of circumcision, and promising him Isaac as a son and the inheritor of it (Genesis chapter 17). God made His with Abraham unconditional. (Genesis 22:12-18)

God's conditional one with the children of Israel, requiring their keeping God's law and circumcision, in return for physical blessings (Exodus 19-4). Further terms (conditions) of this covenant were expounded later (Leviticus chapters 25-27; Deuteronomy chapters 29- 31).

With the children of Israel concerning the Sabbath. (Exodus 31:14-18)

God's concerning the Ten Commandments and Holy Days designated by God. (Exodus 34:10 - 35)

God's concerning the bread in the Tabernacle, and later the Temple, to be eaten only by the priests, descendants of Aaron. (Leviticus 24:8,9)

God promised a new covenant in the Bible. (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

God, in the Bible, spoke of His unconditional covenant with King David of Israel and of His continuing, unconditional covenant with Jacob's descendants. (Jeremiah 33:19-36)

God spoke of "divorcing" Israel and Judah, thus ending the earlier covenant, and of establishing a new one with them. (Ezekiel 16:59-63)

The most important one - the new covenant - established by Jesus upon His death. (Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews chapters 7 - 10). Paul described the only new ritual of it. (1Corinthians 11:23-30)

Let me take a guess about what you believe about Israel and the New Covenant.

The Church replaced Israel?


The scriptures teach us these 4 foundational truth's:

• The law was added to the Abrahamic Covenant.

• We are grafted in to the natural Olive Tree.

• We are supported by the root.

• We are partakers of the commonwealth of Israel.

JLB

 

[ezrider]

JLB,

Has the church replaced Israel? This is part of the reason that I started this study, hoping by looking at the characteristics of both covenants, we might understand better the perspective from which we view these things, and maybe somewhere along the way some one might be blessed and comforted by some revelation.

The dead in Christ have and old covenant relationships with the Lord. They have accepted Jesus as their Lord and his sacrifice upon the cross, but they continue to offer up the sacrifice of Christ as the offering of their sins. They would be of the persuasion that the Church has replaced Israel which is why the church has taken unto themselves the judgements that were prophesied of Israel, and they too, just like the apostles and all others living under the old covenant, they expected a physical King who would come and destroy their oppressors, and lead their nation to righteousness. They are still bound to the kingdoms of this world, and they serve and obey the Lord after the manner of the flesh.

The living in Christ have a new covenant relationship with the Lord. They have accepted Christ as their Lord and his sacrifice upon the cross. But that sacrifice was a one time sacrifice that sealed the covenant that was promised to Abraham. And just like the new covenant (Abrahamic) that actually preceded the old covenant (Mosaic) by 430 years, so to did the church (the body of Christ): For Israel was named after Jacob, but what saith the scripture? In Isaac shall thy seed be called (Rom 9:6-8). The people with a new covenant relationship do not continually cast their sins upon the cross, they have accepted through Faith the promise of God that he would remember their sins no more, and they walk trusting in the Grace of the Lord. Those with a new covenant relationship do not wait for a future kingdom or a future king, but through Faith walk in the reality that the Kingdom of Heaven is present with them, and that the Spirit of Christ already dwells within their hearts. They do not serve after the manner of the flesh, they serve and worship in Spirit, for God is a Spirit.

 

[JLB]

JLB,

Has the church replaced Israel? This is part of the reason that I started this study, hoping by looking at the characteristics of both covenants, we might understand better the perspective from which we view these things, and maybe somewhere along the way some one might be bless and comforted by some revelation.

The dead in Christ have and old covenant relationships with the Lord. They have accepted Jesus as their Lord and his sacrifice upon the cross, but they continue to offer use the sacrifice of Christ as the offering of their sins. They would be of the persuasion that the Church has replaced Israel which is why the church has taken unto themselves the judgements that were prophesied of Israel, and they too, just like the apostles and all others living under the old covenant, they expected a physical King who would come and destroy their oppressors, and lead their nation to righteousness. They are still bound to the kingdoms of this world, and they serve and obey the Lord after the manner of the flesh.

The living in Christ have a new covenant relationship with the Lord. They have accepted Christ as their Lord and his sacrifice upon the cross. But that sacrifice was a one time sacrifice that sealed the covenant that was promised to Abraham. And just like the new covenant (Abrahamic) that actually preceded the old covenant (Mosaic) by 430 years, so to did the church (the body of Christ): For Israel was named after Jacob, but what saith the scripture? In Isaac shall thy seed be called (Rom 9:6-8). The people with a new covenant relationship do not
continually cast their sins upon the cross, they have accepted through Faith the promise of God that he would remember their sins no more, and they walk trusting in the Grace of the Lord. Those with a new covenant relationship do not wait for a future kingdom or a future king, but through Faith walk in the reality that the Kingdom of Heaven is present with them, and that the Spirit of Christ already dwells within their hearts. They do not serve after the manner of the flesh, they serve and worship in Spirit, for God is a Spirit.

The Ecclesia started with Abraham.

Abraham made Covenant with The Lord before He became flesh.

Same Lord.

JLB

 

[ezrider]

God established many covenants so why would there be just two.

With Noah to save him and his family, Genesis 6:18

With Noah and his descendants to never again destroy the world by flood. (Genesis 9:9-17)

With Abram to give him and his descendants the land we call Israel today and to destroy the inhabitants of that land because of their great sins (Genesis 15:18-21)

God's follow-up with Abram, changing his name to Abraham, and designating him the father of many nations and millions of descendants, and adding the covenant of circumcision, and promising him Isaac as a son and the inheritor of it (Genesis chapter 17). God made His with Abraham unconditional. (Genesis 22:12-18)

God's conditional one with the children of Israel, requiring their keeping God's law and circumcision, in return for physical blessings (Exodus 19-4). Further terms (conditions) of this covenant were expounded later (Leviticus chapters 25-27; Deuteronomy chapters 29- 31).

With the children of Israel concerning the Sabbath. (Exodus 31:14-18)

God's concerning the Ten Commandments and Holy Days designated by God. (Exodus 34:10 - 35)

God's concerning the bread in the Tabernacle, and later the Temple, to be eaten only by the priests, descendants of Aaron. (Leviticus 24:8,9)

God promised a new covenant in the Bible. (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

God, in the Bible, spoke of His unconditional covenant with King David of Israel and of His continuing, unconditional covenant with Jacob's descendants. (Jeremiah 33:19-36)

God spoke of "divorcing" Israel and Judah, thus ending the earlier covenant, and of establishing a new one with them. (Ezekiel 16:59-63)

The most important one - the new covenant - established by Jesus upon His death. (Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews chapters 7 - 10). Paul described the only new ritual of it. (1Corinthians 11:23-30)

Thanks for the scripture references.

I see the Noahide Covenant as a Covenant between God and the earth.
The Mosaic Covenant (old) was a Covenant between God and the nation of Israel after the manner of the flesh.
The Abrahamic Covenant (new) was a Covenant between God and a people of the Kingdom of Heaven after the manner of the Spirit. As it pertains to the flesh, they have been asked to obey the laws and ordinances of the nations that rule over them.

 

[Count Duckula]

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. -- Deuteronomy 21:18-21
He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. -- Exodus 21:15
He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. -- Exodus 21:17
The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. -- Proverbs 30:17
And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. -- 2 Kings 2:23-24

It appears that Jesus says not to do these kind of things:

Matthew 15
1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,