Now is the time to express your knowledge, wisdom, and spiritual insight.
Romans 8:29-30:
"For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the first born among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified".
Many look at this and say God chose people ahead of time and were saved no matter what.
I have a problem with that.
Where is freedom of will?
What do you have to say about it?
Hi Rollo,
These two verses are part a of a longer thought that Paul is having here. In this section of the book of Romans Paul is addressing the Jewish believers at the church in Rome. In the preceding chapters he's contrasted the Law with faith and in chapter 8 he begins to explain how there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ and walk according to the Spirit. As he proceeds in chapter 8 hr encourages these Jewish Christians to continue in the face of persecution.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (Rom 8:18 KJV)
He continues by explaining that the whole of creation is groaning, awaiting the return of Christ.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. (Rom 8:19-25 KJV)
He explains how the Spirit also helps in this time of suffering by making intercession for those who love God.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. (Rom 8:26 KJV)
He continues with God who searches the hearts and says that He knows the mind of the Spirit who is making intercession on our behalf
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. (Rom 8:27 KJV)
Then he concludes,
28 And
we know that
all things work together for good to
them that love God, to t
hem who are the called according to his purpose. (Rom 8:28 KJV)
That's great news, and Paul doesn't just leave it there with them having to take his word for it. No, he supplies them evidence from the OT Scriptures. He says, "for we know" The Greek word here for know is the word "oidamen" and it carries the idea of knowing something by seeing, or perceiving something. It's also in the perfect tense which indicates a past completed action whose results continue to the present (when Paul wrote the letter.) That brings up the question how would these Jewish believers in the church at Rome have seen that all things work together for good to those who love God? Paul explains, He says, those He foreknew, He also predetermined to conform to the image of His Son, and those He predetermined, He called, and those He called, He justified and those He justified He glorified.
So, how would those Jewish believers in the church at Rome know this? Well, Paul said those God foreknew. The Greek word here is proginosko, it's a compound word, pro = before and ginosko = know. It literally means before know. Many try to use this word as God knowing the future, however, I would submit that that is not what Paul is saying but rather is referring to people God knew before, in the past.
Remember, Paul is describing those who love God and are called according to His purpose. What is His purpose here? It is the fulfillment of the promises made to Abraham, which he goes on to explain in chapter 9.
So, somehow Paul knows that these Jewish believers in the church at Rome have seen or perceived that all things work together for good to those who love God. They would know from the OT Scriptures and their history with God. We can see how God worked in the lives of the men of faith in the OT, men like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Moses, etc. God chose these men to bring about his purpose, to fulfill the promises to Abraham. The promise is that all nations would be blessed through Abraham and his Seed which Paul says is Christ. It's through Abraham that God would bring about the redemption of man. Abraham loved God. God had known and called him.
KJV Genesis 12:1 Now the
LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: (Gen 12:1 KJV)
God predetermined that Abraham would be conformed to the image of His Son. In Rom. 8 Paul says those God foreknow He predetermined to conform to the image of His Son. We know this is a reference to the resurrection from the previous verses.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (Rom 8:19-21 KJV)
Jesus said,
26 And
as touching the dead,
that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the
God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
27 He is not the God of the dead, but
the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err. (Mar 12:26-27 KJV)
God also Justified Abraham,
4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD; and
he counted it to him for righteousness. (Gen 15:4-6 KJV)
God also glorified Abraham,
15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And
in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. (Gen 22:15-18 KJV)
In the following verses Paul goes on to expound how wonderful God is. Then in chapter 9 He begins to break down the purpose of God that he wrote of in verse 28. The Greek word for purpose in verse 28 is prothesis and it has the meaning of, a setting forth of something or placing it in view. IN chapter 9 Paul set forth the plan of God that he is referring to. he says.
KJV Romans 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom
as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (Rom 9:1-5 KJV)
He says the promises belong to the Fathers. the Fathers are Abraham, Issac and Jacob. God had told each of these men that the nations of the world would be blessed through them and their seed. Then he writes that Christ came for this reason.
He begins breaking it down in verse 6.
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. (Rom 9:6-7 KJV)
Paul begins explaining that the Jews thinking that being Abraham's seed entitles them to the promises is wrong and it's through Isaac that the promised seed would come. He goes one to explain how God chose certain man thorough which He would fulfill this purpose or plan.
So, that's how I see Romans 8:29-30. I see it as it is, an example of things God has done in the past that Paul uses to encourage believers who are suffering persecution.
