Hello, fellow humans.

[Defiance]

I'm an atheist.

I came here primarily to ask questions about Christianity itself, and not to promote and pull people into atheism like a vacuum cleaner. I have read the rules, and will do my best not to infringe them. Regardless, I do have questions that some may think of as common knowledge or offensive because it questions their core values. Rest assured, I come in peace, to acquire knowledge, or clarification on a biblical passage/story.
I look forward to discussions.

 

[electricaluser]

I'm an atheist.

I came here primarily to ask questions about Christianity itself, and not to promote and pull people into atheism like a vacuum cleaner. I have read the rules, and will do my best not to infringe them. Regardless, I do have questions that some may think of as common knowledge or offensive because it questions their core values. Rest assured, I come in peace, to acquire knowledge, or clarification on a biblical passage/story.
I look forward to discussions.

Go ahead ask something, I'm up for thinking.

 

[Defiance]

Here or in a new thread? I don't know if starting discussions is allowed on the introductions.

If not, a mod may move this to an appropriate section.

Okay. Christians believe that a man (and god), Jesus Christ, was crucified, and it led to the payment of their sins. My question is: what exactly did Jesus sacrifice? What did he give up so that sins of people could be forgiven, so that his father (isn't that himself also?) would not unleash his wrath?

 

[electricaluser]

Here or in a new thread? I don't know if starting discussions is allowed on the introductions.

If not, a mod may move this to an appropriate section.

Okay. Christians believe that a man (and god), Jesus Christ, was crucified, and it led to the payment of their sins. My question is: what exactly did Jesus sacrifice? What did he give up so that sins of people could be forgiven, so that his father (isn't that himself also?) would not unleash his wrath?

Our sins, he took the sickness of the worlds want of good and evil and destroyed the power it had over death. To me Jesus is the life process of bioelectrical resurrection for dying due to knowing good and evil.

 

[Eugene]

Hi Defiance, and welcome to CF.net. I appreciate your having read our Terms of Service, and I think most will be happy to attempt to answer your questions. I personally have no problem with you continuing your questions on this thread. One thing we've experienced in the past is non believers trying to disprove Christianity rather than gain knowledge of us, and that necessitates moderation. I do hope you enjoy our communion with you.

 

[Defiance]

he took the sickness of the worlds want of good and evil and destroyed the power it had over death

I don't know what this means. How exactly does Jesus being crucified take away the "sickness"? Why does Jesus being crucified take away the "sickness"? I have a hard time understanding. What was sacrificed, to whom was that sacrificed, and what did that sacrifice do?

bioelectrical resurrection

Definition, please.

And Eugene, thank you for the warm welcome.

 

[electricaluser]

I don't know what this means. How exactly does Jesus being crucified take away the "sickness"? Why does Jesus being crucified take away the "sickness"? I have a hard time understanding. What was sacrificed, to whom was that sacrificed, and what did that sacrifice do?



Definition, please.

And Eugene, thank you for the warm welcome.

Your bioelectrical field is your user (Your soul) The death of the soul occurs when one believes that they know either good or evil. What was sacrificed was the anomaly caused by the human race when they fell into a state of want death (Good and evil) 6-10 thousand years ago.

 

[Defiance]

anomaly caused by the human race

How does one sacrifice an "anomaly"? And why would a human "anomaly" sacrifice somehow require Jesus to be crucified?

EDIT: spelling.

 

[electricaluser]

How does on sacrifice an "anomaly"? And why would a human "anomaly" sacrifice somehow require Jesus to be crucified?

It doesn't Defiance, I see mans invention of spirituality a desperate attempt of the subconscious to resolve the anomaly.

 

[Defiance]

I'm sorry, I'm completely lost now. It's probably just me; I'm just not understanding the wording.

Can you make it easier for me?:

Jesus sacrificed _____ so that ______ could happen.

The reason that Jesus was needed (by god/himself (?))to be crucified is ______.

 

[electricaluser]

I'm sorry, I'm completely lost now. It's probably just me; I'm just not understanding the wording.

Can you make it easier for me?:

Jesus sacrificed _____ so that ______ could happen.

The reason that Jesus was needed (by god/himself (?))to be crucified is ______.

I'm not a Christian Defiance so I can't really uphold the Christian belief system, I personally have deeply conflicting views about all current thinking.

 

[Blake]

Jesus sacrificed Himself so that the New Covenant could happen.

The reason that God the Word was crucified was to fulfill the Law of Moses, to pay off that debt in full, by being the final, spotless sacrificial Lamb to end all blood sacrifice once and for all, so that a covenant of grace and mercy could be extended to man.

Have you heard before in your studies about how, when Jesus gave up the ghost, an earthquake tore the temple down and tore the veil inside completely in half? This was a symbol of our new covenant, no longer would a high priest have to offer up sacrifices for our atonement, we now are a royal priesthood with direct access to the Mercy Seat ourselves with no intermediary. The Law of the Prophets has now been fulfilled in Jesus Christ, and He was the only one Who could have fulfilled it.

As the first Adam sinned at a tree, so the new Adam bore our sins on a tree. As Adam's side was opened to produce Eve, Jesus' side was opened to produce His Bride the Church. The first Adam was created in God's image, the new Adam is the image of God. As Adam turned away from God in the garden of Eden, Jesus turned to God in the garden of Gethsemane. Jesus is the fulfillment of all things, truly He restored man unto the grace which allows us, if we are willing, to enter into the Holy of Holies and boldly approach the Mercy Seat and seek God wholly, in the Person of Jesus Christ, through the workings of the Holy Spirit unto the Glory of God the Father. Amen.

 

[Defiance]

Jesus sacrificed Himself

To whom? What happened to him when he was sacrificed? What did he lose; what did he give up?

I have many more questions. Thank you for the detailed answer.

 

[electricaluser]

Jesus sacrificed Himself so that the New Covenant could happen.

The reason that God the Word was crucified was to fulfill the Law of Moses, to pay off that debt in full, by being the final, spotless sacrificial Lamb to end all blood sacrifice once and for all, so that a covenant of grace and mercy could be extended to man.

Have you heard before in your studies about how, when Jesus gave up the ghost, an earthquake tore the temple down and tore the veil inside completely in half? This was a symbol of our new covenant, no longer would a high priest have to offer up sacrifices for our atonement, we now are a royal priesthood with direct access to the Mercy Seat ourselves with no intermediary. The Law of the Prophets has now been fulfilled in Jesus Christ, and He was the only one Who could have fulfilled it.

As the first Adam sinned at a tree, so the new Adam bore our sins on a tree. As Adam's side was opened to produce Eve, Jesus' side was opened to produce His Bride the Church. The first Adam was created in God's image, the new Adam is the image of God. As Adam turned away from God in the garden of Eden, Jesus turned to God in the garden of Gethsemane. Jesus is the fulfillment of all things, truly He restored man unto the grace which allows us, if we are willing, to enter into the Holy of Holies and boldly approach the Mercy Seat and seek God wholly, in the Person of Jesus Christ, through the workings of the Holy Spirit unto the Glory of God the Father. Amen.

I like how you made all those connections with the Old testament lore and New Testament grace, it's pretty cool.

 

[Defiance]

Lore? You don't believe OT is a real chain of events, Electricaluser?

 

[electricaluser]

Lore? You don't believe OT is a real chain of events, Electricaluser?

To me it's a chain of mans journey deep into an aberration, I see that it's all true and false at the same time.

 

[Eugene]

Okay. Christians believe that a man (and god), Jesus Christ, was crucified, and it led to the payment of their sins. My question is: what exactly did Jesus sacrifice? What did he give up so that sins of people could be forgiven, so that his father (isn't that himself also?) would not unleash his wrath?

Not being aware of what you know of Christianity, I’ll try to use scripture to aid you to ascertain certain facts of our faith.

Who is Jesus?
Below John the Baptist is announcing Jesus whom Esaias proclaimed as God.
Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD (Jehovah= Jewish national name of God), make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Joh 1:23 He said, I (John the Baptist) am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

Why did Jesus become man? He became God with us. Mat 1:23 . . they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

God had a way for us to be saved from sin.
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation (appeasing) for our sins.
3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

I’ll leave off and see what questions this might bring.

 

[Blake]

"To whom" is a rough question, I'm not much of a theologian, but I don't think His sacrifice is so much a "who am I being sacrificed to" as it is a statement of what He was being sacrificed for. The simple answer is, the Son was presented as a sacrifice to the Father for our propitiation. 1 John 4:9-10 says "By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins." In other words, the guilt and stain of sin which covered the world through Adam's transgression and every sin since has been covered, our debt has been paid, our obligations removed. It is important to realize that the sacrifice of the Son is not a display of human sacrifice as a necessity to placate an angry and hateful God, but rather this: an All-Holy God cannot look upon sin or allow it in His Presence, and even though we humans have failed since the beginning of time to live to such a set-apart mandate and standard, God Himself met humanity upon a cross and redeemed it. It's beautiful. We were not able to cover one fraction of our debt through our works, but through the infinite mercies of God, He died for us. That is the Gospel. It goes back to the verse above... in this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to cover it all, the perfection which was demanded of us died for our sake, so that our righteousness is known not in our own sight or by our own merit, but because of who Jesus Christ is. Ever hear the song "Nothing but the Blood"?

"This is all my righteousness: Nothing but the blood of Jesus."

EDIT: I love how Brother Eugene chimed in with the very same verse as I was typing this response. Christ is in our midst!

 

[Defiance]

wages of sin is death

Hmm. But look at it this way: Jesus never really died. He is god, correct? Gods are (characterised as) immortal; they know not death. He just turned into his other god form. What is the sacrifice in that? He is being crucified for a few days, only to be reigned king of all heavens soon after. It seems he sacrificed nothing.

Son to be the propitiation (appeasing)

Appeasing to whom? God? Isn't he himself god?

 

[Blake]

Ah, and the question what happened when He was sacrificed. His body lie died in the grave for 3 days, but in spirit, He went to those tormented in hell (not the lake of fire, a difference), and preached to them -- those who died while the world was flooded in Noah's time got to hear the Gospel after all.