Bible Study Forgiveness?

[Douglas Summers]

The recent murder of a youth pastors wife (Amanda Blackburn) during a home invasion was appalling to say the least. She was 16 week pregnant. She was raped and shot in the head while her youngest child was sleeping in bed.
They caught the murderers (there were 4 or 5 teenagers) that belong to a club called,"The Kill Gang".
Youth pastor Blackburn (her husband) after they were caught said he had already forgive them ?????

I have to tell you, I would not have!!!! I would be full of rage and want justice. When they crucified the Lord on the cross, He say's, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do," (Luke 23:34). That is completely different than what this kill gang did. They knew what they were doing and planned to do so. The question is,"can they be saved?" Yes! But salvation comes first through repentance (conversion) and the Blood of Christ. But the son's of Satin will not repent,(convert) for Satin is their father.(John 8:41-44) .
I think that some Christians are so eager to show grace that the flesh gets in the way of Spiritual and divine order. There is only one thing that condemns a man to death. Rejection The Christ.

 

[reba]

I agree then the Lords Prayer comes to mind 'forgive me as i forgive others'.. This forgiveness thing makes me feel like a ping pong ball..
What does forgiveness really mean? Some day i would like to know i have forgiven the guy who molested my grandchildren, Does that mean i would let him around them again? NO ...i dont think thats what forgiveness means,,

 

[ezrider]

Acts 7:59-60
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Forgiveness is a core part of Christianity. We forgive as we have been forgiven. We forgive so we can be forgiven.

I admire this pastor. Must be hard. Forgiving others frees us from holding onto bitterness, animosity, rage. Plus, Jesus said to forgive, so even thought its often difficult, its the best course of action.

 

[Sinthesis]

The recent murder of a youth pastors wife (Amanda Blackburn) during a home invasion was appalling to say the least. She was 16 week pregnant. She was raped and shot in the head while her youngest child was sleeping in bed.
They caught the murderers (there were 4 or 5 teenagers) that belong to a club called,"The Kill Gang".
Youth pastor Blackburn (her husband) after they were caught said he had already forgive them ?????

I have to tell you, I would not have!!!! I would be full of rage and want justice. When they crucified the Lord on the cross, He say's, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do," (Luke 23:34). That is completely different than what this kill gang did. They knew what they were doing and planned to do so. The question is,"can they be saved?" Yes! But salvation comes first through repentance (conversion) and the Blood of Christ. But the son's of Satin will not repent,(convert) for Satin is their father.(John 8:41-44) .
I think that some Christians are so eager to show grace that the flesh gets in the way of Spiritual and divine order. There is only one thing that condemns a man to death. Rejection The Christ.

What is it to you that this Christian man can forgive his wife's murderers?

 

[Gdemoss]

Forgiveness is a tricky matter. For every conceivable sin there is judgement and condemnation. To forgive someone is to give up the right to have them prosecuted for their crimes.

Even forgiven sin has consequences. In Davids case the baby died.

The real question of forgiveness lies in knowledge. Are they ignorant not knowing what they do or no? This is not always easy to know.

Saul was a man who ignorantly persecuted the people of God. He thought he knew better.

I don't know what these people were thinking as I have not examined them. I work with all kinds of people who do not understand the powerlessness against sin described by Paul in Romans seven. Nor their need for Christ to be in them empowering them to stand up against sin described in eight.

I suffered from having a reprobate mind and was saved. I understand tge scripture to whom much is forgiven much loves by experience.

May God help those afflicted in this.

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

I dont see any scripture on forgiving evil. Pray for enemys and love your enemys is about the closest I know, not forgiving. You should not hate them, and pray for them, but forgiveness, I think thats a personal choice.

Forgiveness 70x7 to a brother in Christ, not the devil and his crew.

And your right, Christ was different, he said " they know NOT what they do".

 

[th1b.taylor]

I dont see any scripture on forgiving evil. Pray for enemys and love your enemys is about the closest I know, not forgiving. You should not hate them, and pray for them, but forgiveness, I think thats a personal choice.

Forgiveness 70x7 to a brother in Christ, not the devil and his crew.

And your right, Christ was different, he said " they know NOT what they do".

Dan,
From my study of the scriptures, I'm going to say you've given the best answer. This man forgave them of their sin against him. That, in no manor negates the prosecution of their crimes against God nor against the State. The only remedy for the state is to serve out the penalty, often anything from twenty years to death. And the only remedy, on this earth, only, is sincere , heart felt repentance. Otherwise, no matter the Pastor's forgivenees they will spend eternity in Hell.

 

[Chopper]

I have to remember that forgiveness has as it's Author, the God Most High Elohiym. It is our Heavenly Father's command that we forgive those who sin against us, as well as His Son Christ Jesus....Actually, we don't have a choice in any situation. Jesus said, if you love Me keep my Commandments.

It's good to remember that one day in the future, the "books" will be opened. Saints and sinners will be judged according to what their deeds were in this life. For the Saints, rewards and position in the New Jerusalem. For the sinners, we can look at Revelation 20:11-15.

Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Since this Pastor forgave these murderers, he released his mind from the hatred that would render himself and the ministry that Jesus called him to, with little power. Anything other than forgiveness for folk who sin against us will result in revenge in the mind of the victim and that will consume his/her thoughts and cripple this person. By forgiveness and placing this incident into the Hands of the Almighty and His revenge against all sin, is freedom for the Christian.

 

[Douglas Summers]

What is it to you that this Christian man can forgive his wife's murderers?

Read it again. I gave how I would personally feel if it happened to me. And that forgiveness comes with repentance (from those that are forgiven). And I did not say they could not be forgiven. I'm willing to forgive, it is the new man in me, but the genuine repentance of a sinner is a call for rejoicing. The very first thing a born again believer would do is to pray that the sinner would see the wickedness of his sins with grief and sorrow in his heart.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

How can a person love another if they can't forgive them? Sometimes it takes a great amount of strength and devotion to forgive another quickly. Other times it can only be done with time and God's help. If the pastor thought it was his duty to forgive those kids, that is his call, and will likely be his ongoing struggle. I don't know that I could do it, but I agree with his actions it's what we're called to do.

 

[Douglas Summers]

How can a person love another if they can't forgive them? Sometimes it takes a great amount of strength and devotion to forgive another quickly. Other times it can only be done with time and God's help. If the pastor thought it was his duty to forgive those kids, that is his call, and will likely be his ongoing struggle. I don't know that I could do it, but I agree with his actions it's what we're called to do.

Hi Soon, You helped me to make my point ( if the pastor acted out of duty) That is not love, but a Spiritless action. But to forgive one with the love of God has power, because it is of Spiritual character.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Hi Soon, You helped me to make my point ( if the pastor acted out of duty) That is not love, but a Spiritless action. to forgive one with the love of God has power because it is of Spiritual character.

Hmmm. I think we can argue out whether it was real forgiveness or not. Real love or not. Or even if it's possible to have those qualities in simular situtions, regardless if it's true for the pastor or not.

However, I have different idea. If you'd be willing just share to the best of your ability what you mean by what is love, and what is a spiritless action. I caution you though, I don't see how any action that is aimed with obeying God (through duty or otherwise) can be counted as spiritless. What I mean by that caution is that you'll have to build up your case for that aspect. Good luck.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Hmmm. I think we can argue out whether it was real forgiveness or not. Real love or not. Or even if it's possible to have those qualities in simular situtions, regardless if it's true for the pastor or not.

However, I have different idea. If you'd be willing just share to the best of your ability what you mean by what is love, and what is a spiritless action. I caution you though, I don't see how any action that is aimed with obeying God (through duty or otherwise) can be counted as spiritless. What I mean by that caution is that you'll have to build up your case for that aspect. Good luck.

I'm not saying it was or was not, I'm talking about the character of our action. You have missed the point, It is a Spiritual matter. I do not have to make a case because the Scriptures define it. (1 Corinthians Chapter 12) Anything we do as the body of Christ, has to be by "charity" , or else it is unprofitable. (does not anyone understand this?) Prayer, forgiveness, supplication, intervention, fellowship, teaching, helping and what ever is good is unprofitable, unless it is driven by the charitable heart that praises God by the rebirth and Godly nature that should drive us. Knowing the power of God.

 

[Douglas Summers]

The problem with todays churc+ is there to afraid to take up there cross and follow Christ and condemn sin and sinners. All this love and forgiveness and prosperity trying to be politically correct.

There afraid of the Gospel. Church leaders are afraid of the Gospel, there scared of tribulation or to be throen in prison, lose there members, lose there money, lose there church. They tremble at the Gospel.

Love and forgiveness seems to be all christians think the Gospel is.

Thats the truth. People are afraid and tremble at the true Gospel.

What did Christ say. Take up your Cross and you will have tribulation.

Hi kiwidan, To many just play church. I can't point them out. All we can do is exhort that the body is a Spiritual body, by and in the Spirit of Christ. Some people take exhortation as judgment. But you are right (it is a sociable and trendy gospel now days)

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

Hi kiwidan, To many just play church. I can't point them out. All we can do is exhort that the body is a Spiritual body, by and in the Spirit of Christ. Some people take exhortation as judgment. But you are right (it is a sociable and trendy gospel now days)

I was decieved for a while, all this God loves me and wants me prosper and forgiveness, feeling good until I read the Gospel for myself.

Thats what people want because its about them, all about me, me , me. Thats how you build a mega church and lead millions away from the Gospel.

Yea welcome everyone. God loves everyone, thats why he has a lake of fire.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I was decieved for a while, all this God loves me and wants me prosper and forgiveness, feeling good until I read the Gospel for myself.

Thats what people want because its about them, all about me, me , me. Thats how you build a mega church and lead millions away from the Gospel.

Yea welcome everyone. God loves everyone, that is why he has a lake of fire.

Bless you, test everything by the Spirit and the word of God, contending for the faith, for it is not flesh and blood we fight against, but principalities that set their self against the truth of God delivered to redeem the lost. A Holy and Spiritual power that can not be mocked by the flesh, teaching self willed worship and material wealth as a sign of God's approval. Usurping Christ authority by putting their self between God and the people, leaving The Christ out side the doors.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

I'm not saying it was or was not, I'm talking about the character of our action. You have missed the point, It is a Spiritual matter. I do not have to make a case because the Scriptures define it. (1 Corinthians Chapter 12) Anything we do as the body of Christ, has to be by "charity" , or else it is unprofitable. (does not anyone understand this?) Prayer, forgiveness, supplication, intervention, fellowship, teaching, helping and what ever is good is unprofitable, unless it is driven by the charitable heart that praises God by the rebirth and Godly nature that should drive us. Knowing the power of God.

I see. Yeah, I guess I did miss the point. When you talked about proving your point I guess I picked up on that terminology, and integrated making a case for it in my response. Either way thank you for clarifying.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I am amazed at all the false teachers. I really thought they were good people teaching me the truth, but all they teached was the outside of the Gospel, they are too afraid to go deep and be a true teacher of Christ, and be willing to lose everything they have for the Gospel.

Its so fake these days, the Church is rare, a true church is a needle in a haystack.

These false teachers say its about us, not God, because God wants us to happy. They dont teach repentance, just come up to the altar and just belive And be saved, everyone and anyone. Hell alluya.

There afraid of losing everything they have, there lifestyle, church, members, money.

You know. If I tell someone a pink unicorn is going to send them to hell when they die if they dont repent and follow the unicorn, they would laugh at me.

If I told that same person if they dont repent and turn from there ways back to God and accept Christ, they going to go to hell when they die, they would be offended.

You see, this person does not believe in either, but there conscience gives witness, and there demons inside fear and tremble at the Gospel. They call it hate speech and offencive, yet they love the pink unicorn.

Much like you, once I started reading the Scriptures on my own, I noticed that the Church did not seem Spiritual as the Scriptures were teaching me. One day I asked the Lord to show me what was true or was it me that did not understand. At work, everyone was a christian. The pastor at the Church was an attorney and my wife worked as a legal secretary for his firm. He eventually ran for judge and we helped campaign for him. My wife continued to work for him after he was elected a judgeship. Once I asked the Lord to show me the Truth, nothing was the same. To make a long story short, All my christian co workers worked against me to get me fired, I wound up getting fired with no reason or explanation. I had to file bankruptcy. I found another job over 100 miles away. While struggling financially our pastor fires my wife? No reason given? I could not figure out what was happening to me. But I lost everything, till I had nothing to hold on but the Lord. Then my eye's were opened. It was a learning experience from the Spirit of the Lord. Many things happened between then and now as I learned from the Lord. All that the Lord had against 6 of the Churches in Revelation exist in the churches today. And yet Philadelphia, while few, exist in there somewhere, But the Lord knows those that are His. The message in the visible church is the same every sermon, "you must be saved to avoid Hell" and "you must tithe to the church so He can give you double!" That is not the Gospel of God in Jesus the Christ. It is so much more. Amen.

 

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

Lord, Lord, did I not prophecy in your name?.

Um no, you sent 50,000 to hell and lead 0 to repentance and salvation.