A & E

Discussion in 'Questions for Christians (Q&A)' started by tears4fears, Sep 28, 2017.

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  1. Not_Now.Soon

    Not_Now.Soon Member

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    I trust the New Testiment, and the Old Testiment.

    People argue over what is believed from those who are no longer here, and somehow come to conclusions that I see no reference to within the bible. Some argue over what category the bible fits into. Saying it is not a literal book. It is not a history book, it is not a science book. And somehow this makes what it says to mean something besides what is actually written in it.

    Please don't count me as that group of people. I might not understand everything in the bible, and know how it all fits together. But I do believe that when it says one thing, I believe it.
     
  2. Jim Parker

    Jim Parker Member

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    Genesis is "the story of Us" for the Jews at the time of Moses and his successors.
    To frame Genesis in the form of modern history is to do violence to the literature.
    Genesis is NOT the transcript of the video tape of creation.
     
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  3. for_his_glory

    for_his_glory Member

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    I don't believe in evolution, but believe that God only spoke all things into existence. As a child of God we either believe all of Gods word or we believe none of it.
     
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  4. ezrider

    ezrider Member

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    As a Christian, do I believe in the account given in the book of Genesis? Yes.
    As a Christian, do I believe in the concept of evolution? Yes

    In its simplistic terms, what is the concept of evolution? That from one creature came another, similar, yet different. Yet for some reason many don't think it possible for God to use evolution as part of the process of His creation. Yet if you look at the story of Adam and Eve a little closer, what might you see? Where did Eve come from? Was she merely spoken into existence as some would suppose? Or was she a new creation, taken and formed from a part of Adam? Created from his rib.

    If the story of Eve being formed from Adam's rib can suggest the concept of evolution, then perhaps we can just accept it as part of the creation process.

    Job 38:4
    Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?
    declare, if thou hast understanding.
     
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  5. Creative

    Creative Member

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    The sinful aspect, in my opinion, of a belief in Darwin's evolution is that one of the tenets of the theory is randomness.

    In no way can a Christian agree with the tenet of randomness.
     
  6. Jim Parker

    Jim Parker Member

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    It is most probably true that they also thought that the earth was the center of the universe; that the sun, moon and stars revolved around the earth, and that what they could see with their eyes was the entire universe. They believed that there were three heavens which existed like shells around the earth; the first heaven is where the clouds are and where the birds fly; the second is where the sun, moon and stars are found; the third is where God's heaven is located. (To where Paul and John were taken up.)

    Shall we also ascribe to those beliefs because the NT writers did?

    They had no concept of what we today call "history." The story of creation falls into the category of "Myth." Myth, unfortunately, in modern times, has taken on a meaning similar to "fairy tale." That was not the case on their part. Myth was an integral part of their worldview; of their understanding wow they came to exist and what the purpose of our existence might be. The creation "myth" answers those questions. We are here because God caused to exist (created) us and everything that exists. The purpose of our existence is to be like God Who created us "in His image and likeness."

    To attach an historical and scientific understanding to the Genesis creation stories is, imo, an error. The meaning which we attach to the words; "history" and "science" were unknown to the writers of the new testament. We err when we impose 21st century, western, scientific, modern English word meanings to literature written in ancient, 3500 year old, middle eastern, pre-scientific, ancient Hebrew literature. The result is consistently these nonsensical arguments based on what the NT writers would have meant as if they had written in 21st century Manhattan.

    Just an observation....

    iakov the fool
     
  7. for_his_glory

    for_his_glory Member

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    I don't believe in evolution, but creation only.
    I would like to ask a question. For there to be something in the first place to evolve from how did it get there if it was not created first?
     
  8. ezrider

    ezrider Member

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    Please direct your post to the OP not other members .. This is not a debate forum edited reba
     
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  9. barelohim

    barelohim Member

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    Well I believe the bible, it is a Spiritual book. Take Genesis 1 the earth being dark and formless. Well God didn't make it formless and void, nor dark. That took place before Genesis 1. Yes there was a creation before Genesis, and it was made as Genesis 2,3,4 were made. And He told Adam and Eve to."...Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it;
    And now we see from Ecc.... 9 That which hath been is that which shall be; and that which hath been done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

    So this time around darkness is to cover the earth, and great darkness the people, THEN SUDDENLY YOUR LIGHT SHALL SHINE!
    Darkness means
    [*StrongsHebrew*]
    2822 choshek kho-shek' from 2821; the dark; hence (literally) darkness; figuratively, misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness:--dark(-ness), night, obscurity. see
     
  10. 1Genesis

    1Genesis Member

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    It is unusual for a Christian to "side" with Evolution.
    Evolution itself is fallible of course because what is not often mentioned by Evolutionists is that Darwin himself wasn't that confident in his own theories. The Cambrian explosion confounded his conclusions rather well. Something he was never able to overcome in his lifetime.
     
  11. 1Genesis

    1Genesis Member

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    I believe your observation concerning sin and death is due to a literal perspective. This in our faith is not the case.
    Also, honey can and does expire. Clostridium botulinum contamination is one such cause.
     
  12. Jim Parker

    Jim Parker Member

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    It is also very excellent, ancient, near eastern literature.
     
  13. FrankLee

    FrankLee Member

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    As to variety he made all flesh after it's own kind. We are not of the generations of some ancient ambitious amoeba. What saith the word about such anti-scriptural doctrines as poor poor Darwin's origin of the species?

    1 Timothy 1:4 KJVS
    Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do .

    1 Timothy 6:3-4 KJVS
    If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; [4] He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

    Adopting and/or attempting to blend false theories of man's faulty science with the word of God is entirely contrary to Christianity.

    1 Timothy 6:20-21 KJVS
    O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: [21] Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
     
  14. Runner

    Runner Member

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    I believe in those aspects of evolution that have been established to a level of scientific certainty. This does not include, at this time, macro-evolution of any type and does not include the evolutionary origin of humans. I believe in those aspects of evolution that have been established to a level of scientific certainty for the same reason that I believe in other aspects of reality that have been established to a level of scientific certainty. I don't believe the earth is flat or 6,000 years old or any of the other forms of embarrassing silliness that some other Christians purport to believe.

    Scientific paradigms change, of course, often dramatically. What is scientific certainty today might not be so certain tomorrow - that's how science works. If the origin of humans through evolution is established to a level of scientific certainty, that's what I will believe. I will believe that He used evolution to guide the process of creation. God did not create an orderly universe susceptible to scientific investigation, and endow humans with investigative and analytical abilities, to "trick" us.

    The fact is, the Genesis accounts are old mythology. The writers of Genesis did not have the faintest idea, in scientific terms, how humans were created. The Genesis accounts are directly related to other ancient mythologies that we recognize as mythologies and do not feel the need to pretend are scientific treatises. The Genesis accounts present core spiritual truths - for example, we are created beings in a God-created Universe who are, in some mysterious way, estranged from our Creator. Scientifically, they don't tell us any more that the Epic of Gilgamesh.

    It may ultimately prove to be the case that we reach a level of scientific certainty about the origin of humans that will accommodate an Adam and Eve-type scenario. This will not mean that Genesis is "scientifically true," because Genesis is not intended as a scientific treatise. Any correspondence between the Genesis account and scientific truth will be a matter of pure happenstance.

    There is a species of Christian who considers it a badge of honor to cling to an extremely literalistic and completely unnecessary reading of Genesis in the face of all scientific knowledge. As Mark Twain famously said, "Faith is believing what you know ain't true." To this type of Christian, nothing science discovers can be true if it conflicts with this literalistic and unnecessary reading of Genesis. Science simply cannot contradict these Christians' narrow understanding of God's Word. I believe that this insistence on an extremely literalistic reading of Genesis serves only to embarrass Christianity - and certainly the secular community, who might be inclined to take Christianity more seriously in the absence of such silliness, agrees.

    This is largely a psychological and fear-based phenomenon. As science has inexorably chipped away at religious "truths" - such as the earth being flat or 6,000 years old or the center of the Universe - some Christians have felt a need to cling even more tenaciously to those truths, to draw lines in the sand. They see their framework of belief collapsing around them. This is precisely why The Origin of Species created such a furor in religious circles when it was published. "We don't care what science proves or our own lying eyes and brains tell us," these folks say. "We are going to cling to [our literalistic and completely unnecessary understanding of] God's Word." They need this "anchor of certainty," unreliable as it may be.

    It is true that one cannot be a Christian unless one believes one is a God-created being in a God-created Universe. I don't happen to believe that the evidence for the macro-evolution of humans is convincing, but this is not because of anything found in Genesis. It simply isn't scientifically convincing at this point. To say that one cannot be a Christian and believe in evolution because this would mean that one does not believe in the truth of Genesis is simply silly and embarrassing to Christianity. One can absolutely believe in evolution and believe that Genesis is true in the way it was intended to be true.
     
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  15. brujaq

    brujaq Member

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    Abiogenesis, billions of years .. :hysterical
     
  16. Free

    Free Staff Member Moderator

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    Just a point of clarification.

    1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called "knowledge,"

    Back when the KJV was written, "science" simply meant knowledge gained from study, not at all what we mean by "science" today. The Greek word there is gnosis, almost always translated as knowledge or a related meaning, in nearly every translation. Only the KJV translates it as "science," and even then only once.
     
  17. Papa Zoom

    Papa Zoom Staff Member Moderator

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    Here's my expert analysis of Genesis. After years of in-depth study, reading countless papers and books, I have found the Holy Grail of Genesis that explains it all!

    In The Beginning, God.....

    I rest my case ;)
     
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  18. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

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    Questions for Christians (Q&A)


    A place for seekers to ask open, honest questions about our faith.
    This is not a debate forum.

    Who posting here is a 'seeker' in the spirit of the forum?

    The OP has not been here for few days...

    Do not reply to this post in this thread..
     
  19. reba

    reba Staff Member Administrator

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    Thread closed...
     
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