A Look At Obama's Health Care Bill

[jasoncran]

well for some poor that are forced to buy into the program.

food or health insurance

that maybe me in the near future.

the problems is too be poor here in america its 10 year less for married couple

so a couple that makes 11k a year but cant live on it gets NO help

that is an example and that is how it works.

i made 38 bucks over the limit and didnt get help.

 

[Lewis]

Theofilus wrote
Another true story:

A two year old girl had a high fever and started having a siezure. Her mother rushed her to a nearby hospital. When she arrived, she was asked whether she had insurance and with what insurance company. (None of that rushing and hooking the girl up to tens of millions of dollars worth of equipment to find out what's wrong and starting treatment right away, like you see on doctor shows on TV.) The mother told the receptionist that she had insurance with a particular insurance company. The receptionist called the company to confirm and to get pre approval for the necessary treatment. As it turned out, the insurance company owned it's own hospital, and they said she would have to bring the girl there to be treated (something they had neglected to mention when they sold the parents the policy). The insurance company's hospital was clear across town, and the mother was afraid that her daughter was dieing. She begged the receptionist to let her see a doctor and promised that she would get the money somehow, but she ended up being escorted out of the hospital by two security guards. Since her insurance wouldn't pre approve an ambulance, she had to drive her baby (who was still having a siezure) across town to the other hospital. When she got there, she had to answer the same questions about her insurance company. After they had confirmed that she did have a policy with them and had gotten pre approval, she finally got to see a doctor, just in time for the doctor to watch her baby girl die.

This woman had insurance and her baby died anyway. It's obvious that expecting doctors to treat people - even babies - just out of the kindness of their hearts is unrealistic. So, if the government isn't supposed to intervene to prevent cases like this, how do you propose to do it? Oh... that's right...

Reading that story made me angry.

 

[jasoncran]

Reading that story made me angry.

while i dont deny that goes on but heres my point

Shortages of organs for donation force the rationing of hearts, livers, lungs and kidneys in the United States.[1] During the 1940s, a limited supply of iron lungs for polio victims forced physicians to ration these machines. Dialysis machines for patients in kidney failure were rationed between 1962 and 1967.[1] More recently, Tia Powell led a New York State Workgroup that set up guidelines for rationing ventilators during a flu pandemic.[2][3] Jacob Appel, a bioethicist, recently described the effects of rationing ventilators bluntly: "Some unfortunate individuals will have to be removed from life support so that others may live."[4]

Among those who have argued in favor of health-care rationing are moral philosopher Peter Singer[5] and former Oregon governor John Kitzhaber.

Triage is the rationing of medical care in an emergency situation.

think about the more recent views of one governor and peter singer, gentlemen

its scary.

 

[reba]

Lets not blame the insurance company alone for the parents not knowing where to take their child. Are we such a nanny state that we can't read what we are buying.

I don’t know where to get the information but i would like to know the distribution of government monies sent for Katrina victims.

I don’t know where to get the information but i would like to know the distribution of privet monies sent for Katrina victims.

My guess is funds sent via churches and other privet org. has a much better rate of return the Government funds.


I believe the American public would do better at providing for the poor then the government.

Think about how government stuff has to be done. Look at the food stamp prograhm..... Say Joe gets 100.00 of food stamps.... how much does that 100.00 really cost. Joe gets 100.00 of food from the Baptist Church what is the real cost?

I have eaten becasue of what was called at the time 'grocery showers'

 

[jasoncran]

its sad as if big govt moves in takes care of the poor and sick, what good is the church?

how can it fulfill the mission given in james?

it wouldnt need to.

 

[Theofilus]

its sad as if big govt moves in takes care of the poor and sick, what good is the church?

how can it fulfill the mission given in james?

it wouldnt need to.

What's sad is that the government needs to take care of the poor and sick because the church isn't doing it, like it should be.

 

[jasoncran]

What's sad is that the government needs to take care of the poor and sick because the church isn't doing it, like it should be.

so then your solution is to sick back and let the world take over the real solution that god commanded us to be.

if the govt does it all, what is the need for giving?

absolutely nothing.

 

[Lewis]

Jason you missed the point, (he said the church's aren't doing it.) Many try but not enough try I guess.

 

[jasoncran]

Jason you missed the point, (he said the church's aren't doing it.) Many try but not enough try I guess.

sign of the times. i guess we should just stop witnessing as well.pointless as they dont listen too.

yes i know what he meant but shouldnt we try to encourage.

do you honestly believe the govt cares?

the rich in power care?

i doubt they do, if so then i support any health initiative puts them on the same level of care that we should get

after all they put on thier pants one leg at time

surely as multi millioniares they can afford to pay for thier care like we have to, or get the same care.

in an national emergency on the cabinet and president is really needed and only they should have a medical staff.

all others NO.

till then i doubt the sincerity.

btw should we also close our pantries as well.

here the govt doesnt run any pantry or even really help the homeless

the churches and one private run shelter does it and that united way funded.

theirs no food for the needy given if they arent on welfare
and if you make more then the limit(aint hard but not enought to get help) whos going to do it?

38 bucks was all it took for me to hit the curb.

so i would get full medical and housing if quit a job

kinda pointless aint it.

 

[reba]

Some times i think we should all go and study the way hitler took over. I little bit at a time.. Feed the folks then you control 'em.... We do not need more government. Is our way of life here in the USA perfect nope. But is ainlt all bad either.

Hitler used the Jews as a common enemy blaimed them for the weather . Take a hard look at the news today who is being made the common enemy?



A good list of why the government is not the answer Jason!

 

[jasoncran]

also let me state this lewis , if the govt cant keep social security around for me and those younger generations what makes you think that this one payer system will last?

they right decreased the fica tax by 2% this tax year thus crippling and shortening the life of ss even further.

 

[reba]

Lewis we are a lazy bunch.... We let the schools feed our kids... now they can get breakfast.... That' nice NOT! As long as there is a easy way out we take it like a flowing river... Parents should feed their kids. Not the schools! It causes a brakedown in the child parent relationship.

Back to your cows milk for baby cows A calf will stay close to mama cow becasue it is that cow that feeds the calf.


Now we are looking at government HC So will the big Nanny put us all on diets? You will eat brussel sprouts!

We need to stop and start taking responsibilty for our selfs.

 

[jasoncran]

Lewis we are a lazy bunch.... We let the schools feed our kids... now they can get breakfast.... That' nice NOT! As long as there is a easy way out we take it like a flowing river... Parents should feed their kids. Not the schools! It causes a brakedown in the child parent relationship.

Back to your cows milk for baby cows A calf will stay close to mama cow becasue it is that cow that feeds the calf.


Now we are looking at government HC So will the big Nanny put us all on diets? You will eat brussel sprouts!

We need to stop and start taking responsibilty for our selfs.

on that note, imagine if this was hundred plus yrs ago when the govt offered to teach kids and the church didnt reenlquesh the role, where would we be.

ahem lewis its a similiar argument here.

i have seen you post that on the founding fathers views on christ and is america a christian nation.

 

[Lewis]

Yes a smaller government is needed. Family and friends, and then the church is to help out the poor in their families, some don't have families. But if the government has to then and only then should they step in. For instance suppose there was no Social Security, people would be in trouble, suppose there was no welfare people would be getting shot, robbed and killed more frequently than they are now. So we are in between a rock and a hard place. Because if people don't have money to feed their families they are going to do what ever it takes to get that money, even if they have to rob, burglarize and kill. So the government does have a role to play. Welfare should just be a stepping stone, until you can find steady work. Also many poor people lack the education to compete in the job market. Many only make 5, 6 or 7 bucks a hour and it can't insure them and the kids or pay all the bills and buy enough food.

 

[jasoncran]

Yes a smaller government is needed. Family and friends, and then the church is to help out the poor in their families, some don't have families. But if the government has to then and only then should they step in. For instance suppose there was no Social Security, people would be in trouble, suppose there was no welfare people would be getting shot, robbed and killed more frequently than they are now. So we are in between a rock and a hard place. Because if people don't have money to feed their families they are going to do what ever it takes to get that money, even if they have to rob, burglarize and kill. So the government does have a role to play. Welfare should just be a stepping stone, until you can find steady work. Also many poor people lack the education to compete in the job market. Many only make 5, 6 or 7 bucks a hour and it can't insure them and the kids or pay all the bills and buy enough food.

but its not working.
just so you know

i was poor white trash and on food stamps as a kid.

no one from the govt came buy to teach my parents to manage money.

and no one did that for me when i was a time of need

in fact ,the church did help me.

yes at one time ss worked and i know all about it as my wife is on it.

but lewis its done, i wont get it unless the govt fixes it. and that aint happening

your generation didnt have enough kids to take care of you and also the feds rob the treasury for that program.

lewis let me ask you this

would you support single payer if the dems said no deal unless abortion is allowed or euthanasia

the later is legal in three states.

and two of the states have public health care where euthanasia is paid for by the govt(state).

 

[reba]

Government support of families has made Dad of no value. Dad is not needed look around. Uncle Sam support the kids and kids are drugies. We need Dads in our homes and Dads that are strong in their love, strong enough to say no.

Time to listen to the Geico commercial This is not mamby pamby land enough jackwagons. To much opra and phill


I am off topic so i will hush up

 

[Lewis]

Break that question down Jason
And on the other thing up here in Philly and elsewhere there are all kinds of programs to help you out.

 

[jasoncran]

ok.

first off abortion if it was part of the bill and mandated as health care(none forced but govt subsidzied) yay or nay

second

the same with euthanasia(assisted suicide)

you cant rule out these , especially the abortion pusher they will want a slice

lewis, you live in the north that is why the city does that.i'm sure in miami there maybe some govt involvment on a larger scale

plus the states also match the the tanf funding.

and when the states go bankrupt or struggling what then

like california the poor get told se yah.

all they do is lower the limit of income as what you make over so that the "poor" appear to be helped

besides

hello!

habitat for humanity is a good program!

hello salvation army,samaritans purse

and this

christian care medishare(GOOGLE THIS)

 

[jasoncran]

Break that question down Jason
And on the other thing up here in Philly and elsewhere there are all kinds of programs to help you out.

LEWIS, that was in 2006 when i needed assistance.

 

[Theofilus]

so then your solution is to sick back and let the world take over the real solution that god commanded us to be.

if the govt does it all, what is the need for giving?

absolutely nothing.

I said that it was sad that the curch isn't doing what it should. How you manage to twist my words and get them to mean that we should just sit back and let the world take over is beyond me. If you can't respond without twisting my words to mean the direct opposite of what I said, then I would prefer that you not respond to me at all.