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Sparrowhawke

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#1
In much the same way that I didn't correctly read the Forum Title for this forum:
[Questions & SUGGESTIONS for CFnet Staff]

I've also noticed an area for DISCUSSION under the Forum-title of Theology. Is there a way to emphasize that aspect (Discussion) without prohibiting debate? Maybe not. Perhaps there is no way to curb overzealous debaters, but is it worth the attempt at peace?

I mean, are we CERTAIN we want to give permission and therefore encourage debate there? It's like shooting ourselves in the foot because there is no way left to 'encourage' civil discussion once the door is opened as a debate area. Somebody WILL come and WILL become overly aggressive so that we may continue to *wink* at such behavior while complaining under our breath and asking in prayer for patience. Can we spel defeated?

Or have things changed? It doesn't seem so.


PS. If it were not for Mike comment about this forum being a [Suggestion Box] (too) I would have continued to think of it as a Question for Staff area ONLY.
 
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Sparrowhawke

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#2


The issue here
is so pervasive it has invaded our thinking(!)​



One solution (in line with my thinking about small-steps and encouragement of maturing Member posts) should be simple enough. Let the poster put a prominent "Discussion Only" label as the First Line of their post. It could be followed with something like, "If you really need to debate this topic you may (of course) open another thread. This is simply not the place for that."





How it's done doesn't matter to me. Having a place where we may discuss theology without intrusion by hostiles (in peace) would be Answered Prayer, yes?​
 
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Sparrowhawke

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#3
I know that this suggestion does not originate with me and that it has been a matter of Moderator Discussion for what now, decades? Almost. In any case, it just seems to me that change is needed if we are ever going to get there from here. No way around that. But then, you've heard that before too.
 

Mike

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#4
Honestly, my friend, I'm having a hard time following your train of thought here. I believe I'm much more linear in my thinking, so diversions with visual instruments break up your point to me. Exactly what are you saying/suggesting? With the upcoming migration in a few days, I'm sure we'll have to let the dust settle before making any changes.

I might be in the minority, but I expect we'll have some significant technical difficulties before this site is fully functional after the switch over. I hope I'm wrong. We've done this a few times, and it hasn't gone smoothly at all. In the long run, we'll be better for it. If my expectations are accurate, it will be the committed members who see us through to that time.
 

Sparrowhawke

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#5
Let people put "Posted for Discussion Only" on their stuff if they post in Theology forum.
That will help weed out undesired debate for those of us who don't love debate, that is.

Business a usual for any unmarked post.​

I love to talk to Christians and don't mind different points of view - but too often it gets out of hand.
Good to see you, Mike
Stay blessed!
 

Mike

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#6
Thank you for clarifying, Sparrow. I understand your perspective here, and it's shared by others. I disagree with allowing this for two reasons.

1. We have the perfect place for the threads you're suggesting. The Christian Talk & Advice Forum, where debate is not allowed. In the forum which is now the "Theology Forum", we can't prevent people from debating a topic, and it's likely that it will turn into one given that most of the people who are active in that forum are accustom to debating their point. In the CT&A, these threads are forced to remain discussion-based.

2. It would make it more complicated to moderate the TF with different criteria for different threads.
 

Mike

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#7
One more thing, too. I'm not opposed to a separate sub-forum of the TF that could allow for "hot topics" in a discussion-based format. I think that would be a better sub-forum of the Apologetics Forum, but either way would be okay with me.
 
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#8
One more thing, too. I'm not opposed to a separate sub-forum of the TF that could allow for "hot topics" in a discussion-based format. I think that would be a better sub-forum of the Apologetics Forum, but either way would be okay with me.
If by "hot topics" we mean things such as LGBTQ, abortion, euthanasia, etc., then Apologetics would be a more appropriate forum.
 

Mike

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#9
If by "hot topics" we mean things such as LGBTQ, abortion, euthanasia, etc., then Apologetics would be a more appropriate forum.
Yes, that's what I had in mind. Sparrowhawke was this what you were thinking?
 

Nick

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#10
If we were to allow a 'hot topics' sub-forum of the Apologetics forum, how would it differ from the regular Apologetics forum? Should we not let the forum mature further to asses whether such a sub-forum is needed?

.02
 

Sparrowhawke

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#12
Yes, that's what I had in mind. Sparrowhawke was this what you were thinking?
Thanks for asking; please do understand that I'm open to progress and believe that change is needed. How may the Snake Pit be improved? Do we really need to allow debaters who push the limits rule the forum? What about tactics such as deliberately breaking rules to get a thread one doesn't like closed down. You guys know more about the tactics that go on over there than I do even though I have served as a Mod in that area too.

So, what I'm totally in support of is trying to support the Staff. The Lord is able to lead this motley crew and that's what I'm hoping for. A reasoned discussion here between friends followed by prayerful consideration and then ... CHANGE.

My original thought was a small-step that encourages self-moderation. Let them say, "This is a Discussion, no heated debates, please." And moderate the tone of the thread from the poster's choice.

A Mod could occasionally say, "By OP request, we need to gravitate toward discussion and away from highly charged debate, hence - no personal attacks," or some such thing. Mind you, I'm not suggesting any rules need be changed. Just the tone. It could be much more inclusive and welcoming and we, as Christians who turn the other cheek, would have a place to practice becoming more Christlike. We all know the quote and justification: "Iron sharpens iron," but it's still play between brothers and NOT DEADLY.
The Christian Talk & Advice Forum, where debate is not allowed. In the forum which is now the "Theology Forum", we can't prevent people from debating a topic, and it's likely that it will turn into one given that most of the people who are active in that forum are accustom to debating their point.
Shall I try to test your thought by opening a topic on OSAS in CT&A forum? Or do we have 'debatable' subjects there? You mentioned that this forum we are currently in isn't just "Questions for CF.net Staff" but also included Suggestions. In much the same way, the Theology forum is a DISCUSSION forum where debate is allowed. The argumentative are in charge there and my suggestion is that some steps are taken toward regaining a more reasoned discussion area.

If by "hot topics" we mean things such as LGBTQ, abortion, euthanasia, etc., then Apologetics would be a more appropriate forum.
Agreed. But what about having an area were we could build together. We could start with "Foundational Doctrines" that are common to all Christians. Baptism isn't a 'hot topic' but there are many different opinions and it's a subject that isn't so 'HOT' as to force argument. Christians could discuss the Theology behind the teachings and if it was "Discussion Only," and debate was discouraged (if not prohibited) they would know to tone it down a notch or two.

Should we not let the forum mature further to asses whether such a sub-forum is needed?
Greetings, Nick! Hmmmm... how can we expect the Snake Pit to mature? I'd love to see that happen too, but it seems to me that guidance is still needed. Can you expand your thinking here, please?
 
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#13
If we were to allow a 'hot topics' sub-forum of the Apologetics forum, how would it differ from the regular Apologetics forum? Should we not let the forum mature further to asses whether such a sub-forum is needed?

.02
We can try that, sure.
 

Sparrowhawke

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#14
1. We have the perfect place for the threads you're suggesting. The Christian Talk & Advice Forum, where debate is not allowed. In the forum which is now the "Theology Forum", we can't prevent people from debating a topic, and it's likely that it will turn into one given that most of the people who are active in that forum are accustom to debating their point. In the CT&A, these threads are forced to remain discussion-based.
I have just now opened a general conversation in the CT&A titled "Once means Always?"
The entire posts consists of a single observation.

Q: Who can stop our Almighty God?
A: We can. God will always respect us and His decision to allow us to choose... Period.


This being the case, it seems to me that the whole argument about OSAS is moot. Although we do have an abundance of witnesses, the Holy Spirit included, we are not yet "approved" until such time as we are.

Rom 8:16; Gal 3:26; Gal 4:6-7; Heb 2:9-10; 1Jn 3:2, 3:10, 5:19; Jn 1:12

No, I'm not trolling but I do believe that it will be difficult for others to respond to this without stirring up debate style trouble. You've stated this is the "perfect place" for such a conversation but what do you think? Is it a fair enough test? You're free to close and/or move to dead threads anytime you like, but you'd be admitting that this is not the perfect place. Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong? It's happened before.

Cordially,
~Michael
 

Sparrowhawke

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#15
It could be something about the way my mind works because, if I'm not logged in I don't see the CT&A forum



It's almost as if it doesn't exist. Easy to fix, though, yes?
Eora Probably has something to do with it being a "Christian Only" forum. Maybe there is no need to fix - and could just be chalked up to Sparrow finding a fix for a problem that does not exist.
:confused
That too has happened B4. I'd like it to be more prominent though, to be better position to "compete" with The Snake Pit. Now there's a very prominent place and who knows? There could be a Pit Viper specialist that has sufficient tolerance ? This too could happen. All I know is that it's not me. Been there, done that.​
 

Mike

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#17
Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong? It's happened before.
Brother Sparrow, please desist. You are shaking the foundation that my world is built upon with the mere possibility that you could be [gulp] wrong. :erm

What's wrong with a casual conversation about OSAS? Believe it or not, I'm half of the chemistry it will take to have a civilized discussion about that topic. I don't need to tell anyone they're wrong about it. I'd just like to understand if they're the type to think those who have rejected Christ never really loved Him at all, or are they of the ilk who say you can truly love Him, reject Him, and still be saved. If I find another person who can agree or disagree with me, yet still not flame up, I'd say the CT&A is a great place to have that talk.

There. You weren't wrong. You just didn't think it through to the end. Or maybe it was me who didn't do that.
 

Sparrowhawke

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#19
If you're not logged in, you will not see CT&A.
I'm a LURKER. More than 1/2 my time is spent while not logged in. So that explains part of why I don't see it.
Is there a way to let Non-Christians have "read only" privileges? It's probably okay to allow lurkers, isn't it?