Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION IN 70AD

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$905.00
Goal
$1,038.00
In Mark's account of the olivet discourse in Mark 13, we find strong contextual evidence which points to a 70AD fulfillment of the AOD.

Mark 13:1-4 "And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here?
And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings,? There shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
And as he sat upon the mount of olives over against the temple, Peter James and John and Andrew asked Jim privately.
Tell us, when shall these things be, and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?


Notice that the context of the discourse and the disciples questions are ONLY about Jerusalems destruction (historically a first century event) and NOT about the "end of the age" as in Math.24.

"When shall these things be...."
That is, when shall every stone be thrown down (when will Jerusalem be destroyed)?
"...What shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?"
That is, what will signify that Jerusalems destruction is about to take place?

I submit to you that the answers to these questions are found in verses 14 and 30

The "time" when Jerusalem was destroyed was within "that (this) generation" (v30)
"...this generation shall not pass until all these things be done"

The "sign" which signified this destruction was immenent was SEEING the AOD (v14)
"But when you shall see the AOD....then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains"

The fact that Jesus says that the disciples would SEE the AOD and SEE his "coming in the clouds" in the context of answering their questions which were ONLY about Jerusalems destruction is very significant.

Powerful contextual evidence indeed that the AOD and Jesus' coming in the clouds were connected to and fulfilled by 70ad

Question to all "futurists":
Since the disciples ONLY asked questions about a first century event (Jerusalems destruction), why would Jesus mention the "SEEING" of the AOD and his "coming in the clouds" as part of his answer?

Thanks, Hope of glory
 
Last edited by a moderator:
In Mark's account of the olivet discourse in Mark 13, we find strong contextual evidence which points to a 70AD fulfillment of the AOD.

Mark 13:1-4 "And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here?
And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings,? There shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
And as he sat upon the mount of olives over against the temple, Peter James and John and Andrew asked Jim privately.
Tell us, when shall these things be, and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?


Notice that the context of the discourse and the disciples questions are ONLY about Jerusalems destruction (historically a first century event) and NOT about the "end of the age" as in Math.24.

"When shall these things be...."
That is, when shall every stone be thrown down (when will Jerusalem be destroyed)?
"...What shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?"
That is, what will signify that Jerusalems destruction is about to take place?

I submit to you that the answers to these questions are found in verses 14 and 30

The "time" when Jerusalem was destroyed was within "that (this) generation" (v30)
"...this generation shall not pass until all these things be done"

The "sign" which signified this destruction was immenent was SEEING the AOD (v14)
"But when you shall see the AOD....then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains"

The fact that Jesus says that the disciples would SEE the AOD and SEE his "coming in the clouds" in the context of answering their questions which were ONLY about Jerusalems destruction is very significant.

Powerful contextual evidence indeed that the AOD and Jesus' coming in the clouds were connected to and fulfilled by 70ad

Question to all "futurists":
Since the disciples ONLY asked questions about a first century event (Jerusalems destruction), why would Jesus mention the "SEEING" of the AOD and his "coming in the clouds" as part of his answer?

Thanks, Hope of glory

Maybe for the same reason He only held out the hope of salvation to the just the first century disciples. After all, He did not say that generations and millenia down the road people would be saved. Same rules as your narrow application of the Olivet Prophecy.
 
In Mark's account of the olivet discourse in Mark 13, we find strong contextual evidence which points to a 70AD fulfillment of the AOD.

Mark 13:1-4 "And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here?
And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings,? There shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
And as he sat upon the mount of olives over against the temple, Peter James and John and Andrew asked Jim privately.
Tell us, when shall these things be, and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Notice that the context of the discourse and the disciples questions are ONLY about Jerusalems destruction (historically a first century event) and NOT about the "end of the age" as in Math.24.

"When shall these things be...."
That is, when shall every stone be thrown down (when will Jerusalem be destroyed)?
"...What shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?"
That is, what will signify that Jerusalems destruction is about to take place?

I submit to you that the answers to these questions are found in verses 14 and 30

The "time" when Jerusalem was destroyed was within "that (this) generation" (v30)
"...this generation shall not pass until all these things be done"

The "sign" which signified this destruction was immenent was SEEING the AOD (v14)
"But when you shall see the AOD....then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains"

The fact that Jesus says that the disciples would SEE the AOD and SEE his "coming in the clouds" in the context of answering their questions which were ONLY about Jerusalems destruction is very significant.

Powerful contextual evidence indeed that the AOD and Jesus' coming in the clouds were connected to and fulfilled by 70ad

Question to all "futurists":

Since the disciples ONLY asked questions about a first century event (Jerusalems destruction), why would Jesus mention the "SEEING" of the AOD and his "coming in the clouds" as part of his answer?

Thanks, Hope of glory

Maybe for the same reason He only held out the hope of salvation to the just the first century disciples. After all, He did not say that generations and millenia down the road people would be saved. Same rules as your narrow application of the Olivet Prophecy.

Your answer has nothing to do with my question.
And salvation was and is promised to ALL who believe
(John 17, acts 2, John 3 etc)
The destruction of Jerusalem was a historical event which took place during the life of Jesus' contemporary generation. The context of both Mark and Luke is strictly about Jerusalems destruction and therefore it SHOULD BE limited to the generation which saw it's destruction.

Do you have an answer for my question which is not a "narrow reading" but rather a "contextually accurate reading"?

Since the disciples ONLY asked questions about a first century event (Jerusalems destruction), why would Jesus mention the "SEEING" of the AOD and his "coming in the clouds" as part of his answer?
 
'Your house IS left unto you desolate'. (Matt. 23:38) That was aprox. 39 years later that the Christ/less Sanctuary was destroyed.

--Elijah
 
In Mark's account of the olivet discourse in Mark 13, we find strong contextual evidence which points to a 70AD fulfillment of the AOD.

Mark 13:1-4 "And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here?
And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings,? There shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
And as he sat upon the mount of olives over against the temple, Peter James and John and Andrew asked Jim privately.
Tell us, when shall these things be, and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Notice that the context of the discourse and the disciples questions are ONLY about Jerusalems destruction (historically a first century event) and NOT about the "end of the age" as in Math.24.

"When shall these things be...."
That is, when shall every stone be thrown down (when will Jerusalem be destroyed)?
"...What shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?"
That is, what will signify that Jerusalems destruction is about to take place?

I submit to you that the answers to these questions are found in verses 14 and 30

The "time" when Jerusalem was destroyed was within "that (this) generation" (v30)
"...this generation shall not pass until all these things be done"

The "sign" which signified this destruction was immenent was SEEING the AOD (v14)
"But when you shall see the AOD....then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains"

The fact that Jesus says that the disciples would SEE the AOD and SEE his "coming in the clouds" in the context of answering their questions which were ONLY about Jerusalems destruction is very significant.

Powerful contextual evidence indeed that the AOD and Jesus' coming in the clouds were connected to and fulfilled by 70ad

Question to all "futurists":

Since the disciples ONLY asked questions about a first century event (Jerusalems destruction), why would Jesus mention the "SEEING" of the AOD and his "coming in the clouds" as part of his answer?

Thanks, Hope of glory

Maybe for the same reason He only held out the hope of salvation to the just the first century disciples. After all, He did not say that generations and millenia down the road people would be saved. Same rules as your narrow application of the Olivet Prophecy.

Your answer has nothing to do with my question.
And salvation was and is promised to ALL who believe
(John 17, acts 2, John 3 etc)
The destruction of Jerusalem was a historical event which took place during the life of Jesus' contemporary generation. The context of both Mark and Luke is strictly about Jerusalems destruction and therefore it SHOULD BE limited to the generation which saw it's destruction.

Do you have an answer for my question which is not a "narrow reading" but rather a "contextually accurate reading"?

Since the disciples ONLY asked questions about a first century event (Jerusalems destruction), why would Jesus mention the "SEEING" of the AOD and his "coming in the clouds" as part of his answer?

Salvation is to be obtained at the resurrection, for the END of your faith is the salvation of your souls.

Jesus returns ONCE AND ONCE ONLY, at the end of the age.

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

He didn't return in 70 AD, He won't return before the Tribulation and again after the tribulation, HE WILL RETURN ONCE, AND HE WILL STAY HERE AND RULE AND REIGN FROM EARTH!

There is no third time of fourth time!

JLB
 
Coming in the clouds is a metaphoric phrase used throughout the Bible meaning coming in judgment. This is referring to the judgment of the Jews and Jerusalem by the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70d by the Romans. Seeing the AoD is reference to Nero. The generation would see the beast, Nero, before it would pass.
 
Coming in the clouds is a metaphoric phrase used throughout the Bible meaning coming in judgment. This is referring to the judgment of the Jews and Jerusalem by the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70d by the Romans. Seeing the AoD is reference to Nero. The generation would see the beast, Nero, before it would pass.

9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven." Acts 1:9-11


They saw Him leave on a cloud, He will be seen by all when He returns on the clouds of heaven.


JLB
 
Coming in the clouds is a metaphoric phrase used throughout the Bible meaning coming in judgment. This is referring to the judgment of the Jews and Jerusalem by the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70d by the Romans. Seeing the AoD is reference to Nero. The generation would see the beast, Nero, before it would pass.

Daniel teaches us that the AOD is not associated with the time frame of 70 AD.

JLB
 
25 "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times.

The command is given that begins the prophecy.

There are 7 weeks.

There are 62 weeks.

This part of the prophecy runs through the first sixty nine weeks and ends with the phrase Messiah the Prince.

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

The time frame has run from the through the 69 weeks, and some time after the 69 weeks Messiah is cut off.

Now the time frame has run to the event 70 AD, chronologically from the going forth of the command to Messiah the Prince, following that Messiah cut off, and then after that the events of 70 AD.

The 70 th week has not been mentioned yet, as the the scripture is clear and does not mention the 70 th week until the next verse, verse 27.

As of verse 26 we have been brought to the year 70 AD and there is yet to be any mention of the 70 th week!

The Messiah was cut off in [approximately] 33 AD.

The Temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

These two events take place after the 69th week.

These two events can not fit into the 70th week.

The going forth of the command comes before the Messiah the prince.

The Messiah the Prince comes before the Messiah cut off.

The Messiah cut of comes before the city and sanctuary destroyed.

The city and sanctuary destroyed comes before the 70th week and the AoD.

This is the chronological structure of this prophecy!


27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."


JLB
 
Back
Top