Abortion Biblical?

[Quath]

Definitely a touchy subject. However, I found a very interesting web page on this. The author started the web page as a born-again Christian. He was tired of seeing Christians contradict each other, so he decided to go to the source (the Bible) and figure it all out. He wanted to be open-minded and not approach the Bible from a denominational stance which seeks to justify itself.

So one conclusion he made was that abortion is Biblical. I was surprised to see that. I am pretty sure that this article will not change a pro-lifer to a pro-choicer. But I think it should challenge people to really think about the Bible and if they are following it or if they are following another's interpretation of it.

I highly recommend reading the article, but I will summarize it to pass along the gist of the article.

The first part is showing that many people take verses out of context. He shows that doing so can show that God does not care about humanity and will destroy people upon command. So he is saying it is vital to put the verses in context in order to understand the Bible.

He then goes along to show the pro-life verses are taken out of context and do not apply to abortion. For example, Psalm 139:13-16 talks of creation of a baby, but God also created other life like the animals. So just because God created something does not imply that it any more special than any other creation.

The author goes verse by verse to show that they are being taken out of context.

Next, he goes on to show that the Bible argues more about the quality of life, than about life itself. He shows verses (in context) which support this view. He shows verses that support abortion and euthanasia.

Here is a small excerpt on this that conveys much of what he is trying to say:

And taking these verses to their extreme, I could claim that abortion is not just a good idea, it is a sacrament.
Actually, I will stop short of making that claim. In fact, I will stop short of making the claim that the Bible condemns or supports abortion at all. It does neither. The condemning and supporting comes not from the words of the Bible but from leaders within our Culture of Christianity who use verses out of context -- the same way I just did to support abortion -- to support their views against abortion. The condemning and the supporting comes not from the Scriptures but from average Christians who take the easy way out, accepting one or two verses of the Bible as proof that their leaders are speaking the gospel truth. The condemning and supporting comes not from God but from those who do not take the time to read the Bible, in its own context, and decide for themselves the meanings therein.

He then goes on to show that the Bible places little value on the life of the unborn. For example, if a woman loses her child due to a fight, it is not considered murder, but it is a civil matter.

He also shows other verses that shows that children were not counted or considered vaulable until after one month of life. He also shows that some soldiers were not considered alive until they breathed in air.

Here is his conclusion:

It is time to stop the one-sided view of abortion being proclaimed by Christian leaders. These leaders do not -- despite their claims -- have a biblical mandate for their theologies. It is time to stop preaching that the Bible contains an undeniable doctrine against abortion. It is time to stop the anger and hatred being heaped on abortion doctors and upon women who have abortions, especially when it's done in the name of a God who has not written such condemnations in his Bible. It is time to stop, because the act of making a judgment against people in God's name, when God is not behind the judging, is nothing short of claiming that our own beliefs are more important than God's. We must stop, because if we don't, then indeed the very type of theological argument being used against abortion can be turned around and used to proclaim that abortion is biblical.

So I am interested in people's reactions to this.

 

[lovely]

Hi Quath,

I read your excerpts of this article first, and now I am reading the article. The first thing that strikes me is that he says he believes that scripture neither supports or condemns abortion, but the title is inconsistent with that claim..."Why Abortion is Biblical." I think he needs to be careful so that he is not guilty of the very thing he accuses some of the Christians of doing. Is he promoting abortion for his own agenda? I do not think any believer should support abortion for a political agenda, and I would say that all those folks he mentioned shouldn't either. We make these judgements based on their words, though. Ultimately, I suppose we can not really know the motives because we do not see hearts as God does.

He also makes the mistake of lumping all Christians who oppose abortion as those who do not read Scripture...not a good tactic really...transparent. I think Scripture speaks to this, and that it indicates we should not do it...especially given most of the reasons why we do it.

For my part, I look to the verses that speak to the fact that God gives children as a blessing...and there are many of them...and, yes, even in what would seem to be wrong circumstances. Women, and men, always considered children as God's favor toward them, and blessing, and as a heritage from the Lord for His people. Today we do not think in these terms.

The first command God gave Adam and Eve as a couple is to be fruitful and multiply. I would go as far to say that not only is abortion wrong, but so is birth control in any form. In marriage, we are to have children...as many as God gives us, and we are to consider them a Godly heritage and blessing. If we are not married, we should not be having relations period. I am glad that Mary did not have the option to abort Christ, even though Joseph could have had her punished by law. I would say that many today would think she would have had a good reason, but God gave to her the Seed that would be a Godly inheritance for all who believe.

Okay, back to topic. I think that Genesis 1 says it best...Man is created in God's image, only man, and He has instructed us to be fruitful and multiply...abortion is the opposite of that.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

The Lord bless you.

 

[Quath]

I read your excerpts of this article first, and now I am reading the article. The first thing that strikes me is that he says he believes that scripture neither supports or condemns abortion, but the title is inconsistent with that claim..."Why Abortion is Biblical." I think he needs to be careful so that he is not guilty of the very thing he accuses some of the Christians of doing. Is he promoting abortion for his own agenda? I do not think any believer should support abortion for a political agenda, and I would say that all those folks he mentioned shouldn't either. We make these judgements based on their words, though. Ultimately, I suppose we can not really know the motives because we do not see hearts as God does.

Yeah, I think his title is designed to be controversial. For a bit in his article he argues by taking verses out of context. But at the end, he backs down from that and says we need to try to see what they probably meant in the stories.

For my part, I look to the verses that speak to the fact that God gives children as a blessing...and there are many of them...and, yes, even in what would seem to be wrong circumstances. Women, and men, always considered children as God's favor toward them, and blessing, and as a heritage from the Lord for His people. Today we do not think in these terms.

I think there is the issue of different cultures. When childhood mortality was high, people did not expect children to live. If they did, it was great. If they didn't, then they try to console themselves by saying things to make them feel better. Part of this is being more accpeting of death in children. For example, I remember reading back in early America, that if a child died before some age (like 1 or 2), then the death did not have to be reported.

Now we have science and medicine improved to the point where we can expect the child to live. So our expectations change.

The first command God gave Adam and Eve as a couple is to be fruitful and multiply. I would go as far to say that not only is abortion wrong, but so is birth control in any form.

Yeah, but God also early on gave dietary laws that are ignored. So maybe this was a command that was useful then, but not so useful now.

I am glad that Mary did not have the option to abort Christ, even though Joseph could have had her punished by law.

Yeah, but it wouldn't have been so bad if Charles Manson's mother or Hitler's mother had decided to abort.

I would say that many today would think she would have had a good reason, but God gave to her the Seed that would be a Godly inheritance for all who believe.

Well, if miracles were happening all around her, I would say that that is a good sign not to abort as well.

Okay, back to topic. I think that Genesis 1 says it best...Man is created in God's image, only man, and He has instructed us to be fruitful and multiply...abortion is the opposite of that.

Well, you could go to the other extreme. It could be considered a sin not to have as many children as you can have. So couples with only 1 or 2 children are sinners since they could easily have 8 to 13 children. Not having sex during a woman's fertile time is a form of birth control.

But I think quality of life is more important than quantity of life. I am not sure how many Christians would agree with that.

The Lord bless you.

May you find happiness.

 

[Lewis]

I won't even take the time to read such garbage.

 

[destiny]

I love this Psalm; I highlighted the parts that are especially meaningful to this topic.

Psalm 139
A Psalm of David.
1 O LORD, You have searched me and known me.
2 You know my sitting down and my rising up;
You understand my thought afar off.
3 You comprehend my path and my lying down,
And are acquainted with all my ways.
4 For there is not a word on my tongue,
But behold, O LORD, You know it altogether.
5 You have hedged me behind and before,
And laid Your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
It is high, I cannot attain it.

7 Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning,
And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10 Even there Your hand shall lead me,
And Your right hand shall hold me.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness shall fall[a] on me,â€Â
Even the night shall be light about me;
12 Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You,
But the night shines as the day;
The darkness and the light are both alike to You.

13 For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.

17 How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God!
How great is the sum of them!
18 If I should count them, they would be more in number than the sand;
When I awake, I am still with You.

19 Oh, that You would slay the wicked, O God!
Depart from me, therefore, you bloodthirsty men.
20 For they speak against You wickedly;
Your enemies take Your name in vain.
21 Do I not hate them, O LORD, who hate You?
And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred;
I count them my enemies.

23 Search me, O God, and know my heart;
Try me, and know my anxieties;
24 And see if there is any wicked way in me,
And lead me in the way everlasting.

 

[Quath]

I won't even take the time to read such garbage.

Why do you prejudge it to be garbage? Do you just know it is wrong before you heare any of its arguments?

I love this Psalm; I highlighted the parts that are especially meaningful to this topic.

Yeah, I mentioned this verse in my first post.

 

[jeffinj]

Marriage is holy and a child born to a couple is a blessing according to the Bible. Definitely that is enough proof to condemn abortion. You are taking away a life when you kill an unborn child which is not yours to decide.

Psalm 22:10
From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother's womb you have been my God.

 

[Quath]

Marriage is holy and a child born to a couple is a blessing according to the Bible. Definitely that is enough proof to condemn abortion. You are taking away a life when you kill an unborn child which is not yours to decide.

Interesting point, but that would imply that all life is sacred and no human should kill another. Yet the Bible is ok with the killing of people and children. And if children were really blessings from God, I don't see why he would specifically say for people to kill them in certain parts of the Bible.

 

[Rick W]

Well, abortion biblical?
Under the guise of killing children as suggested I suppose one could say pedophilia is biblical or child abuse is biblical or just about anything else you care to suggest with evil intent toward children. Doesn't matter what at all really.

We don't know what was going on with those other people and their children. We don't know what transpired between God and them. We're not told. We don't know if there were plagues present or some other malicious disease among the people... children included. We don't know because the bible doesn't tell us.

We do know the firstborn were taken in Egypt, after a series of other warnings. Pharaoh had his warning but still wouldn't let the people go. We know some peoples worshipped other gods making sacrifice by causing their kids to walk into fire. Did God warn them also? We don't know. In some cases He commanded the cattle be wiped out also. I wonder why. Obviously there was something God did not want His people exposed to, either worship of other gods, disease, genetic deformation or immoral behavior of any sort. Could be any number of things.

Could God have cured the people if physical malady ? I imagine so but then we still don't know what was going on among those people. I suppose it could very well be a case of "need to know". But I do believe we will find out some time in the future. And I don't think it'll be a case of God explaining Himself to a stiff-necked and rebellious people. Or to anyone else for that matter. But we will find out His judgments are just.

I'd have to say though that if God is on trial here I believe it'd be prudent that He at least get a fair trial and a chance to present His case before anyone goes off with a rope looking for a nice stout tree somewhere out of town.
:

 

[Quath]

We don't know what was going on with those other people and their children. We don't know what transpired between God and them. We're not told. We don't know if there were plagues present or some other malicious disease among the people... children included. We don't know because the bible doesn't tell us.

I don't think we need to know too much to rule out some obvious contradictions. For example, if children are a blessing, then God should never order them killed. He would just choose not to bless the people by giving them a child. So for example, if the Egyptian babies were really something special, God should have spared them (and maybe hurt the Egyptians another way if he so desired.)

So by example in the Bible, God treats children no worse or better than he treats anyone else. So we should not say he is giving them any special status unless he demonstrates it.

Could God have cured the people if physical malady ? I imagine so but then we still don't know what was going on among those people. I suppose it could very well be a case of "need to know". But I do believe we will find out some time in the future. And I don't think it'll be a case of God explaining Himself to a stiff-necked and rebellious people. Or to anyone else for that matter. But we will find out His judgments are just.

On some level, we do ourselves an injustice of thought when we do not question authority. If a politican said it would be a good idea to go kill the enemy's children, I would hope people would raise objections.

My guess is that God's words in the Bible were recorded like they are today. Some preacher says he hears God and someone writes it down as fact. So maybe if you are uncomfortable judging God, maybe you would beel more comfortable wondering if he was recorded correctly.

I'd have to say though that if God is on trial here I believe it'd be prudent that He at least get a fair trial and a chance to present His case before anyone goes off with a rope looking for a nice stout tree somewhere out of town.

Heh, hard to get information from him it seems.

 

[Rick W]

That's just it Quath. We don't know why God would pull someone from this world whether it's a child, teen, adult or elderly. He gives life and He takes it. Dying in the flesh is not the end of all things. You believe it is therefore to you God taking a life ends the story.
Therein lies the difference between you and the believer. We have hope for another country, hope for a Savior that will give eternal bliss rather than temporary existance. We have hope, we have faith, we have freedom from the world through the love of Christ and what He did on the cross. You don't. To you this is all there is. No more.
I couldn't go back to it. Been there done that.
No thanks.

 

[Guest]

Who is qualified to put God on trial?

 

[Quath]

Dying in the flesh is not the end of all things.

So that seems to imply that abortion is not so bad after all.

We have hope, we have faith, we have freedom from the world through the love of Christ and what He did on the cross. You don't. To you this is all there is. No more.
I couldn't go back to it. Been there done that.
No thanks.

I think reality has to be what is, now what we want it to be.

Who is qualified to put God on trial?

It depends on the charges.

On trial for existance: everyone. For example, we are all qualified to put Zeus, Hercules, Santa Calus, Vishnu, Thor on trial for existance and make a judgement. Why is God different?

On trial for being misquotes: People who believe in God. We all know that people can wrote down lies about God. We know they can even put them in holy books. We know that God doesn't stop them. So logically, the Bible could contain errors, such as misquotes.

On trials for crimes against humanity: People who believed that he commited them. Here is the problem. If God has infinite resources, why would he ever have to order children killed? He has an infinity other, kinder ways to deal with them. For example, he could have made their parents infertile. God could have killed them painlessly in their sleep. God could have teleported them away. God could have ordered the Israelites to take care of them. Yet, we are suppose to believe that sticking swords into children is the best solution a perfect deity can come up with. I think that if you embrace such an idea, it is corrupting. If God is real and if he did that, I would have to wonder about his morality.

 

[lovely]

Hi Quath,

I was wondering when you would get around to this part of the thread. Either I am learning your posting techniques, or I have just simply been on this board too long now. Anyway, I think ALone and potluck are correct, we can not judge God...He is the Giver of life, of blessing, and has the authority to take it away. We have no authority outside of that He gives us. He is also the Giver of eternal life, Quath, and will ultimately judge us. So, some may put Him on trial now (not having all the evidence), but really what God is offering is a pardon for us, because we are the guilty. It's neat that He offers us a pardon, even when we desire to judge Him. Who knows, maybe some of those children have received a pardon, and will live eternally because they died.

I am also thinking that you sort of summed up Scripture pretty quickly. I wonder if any other books, like those in Scripture, have been preserved as long, or as safely, or perhaps as divinely? It really is an amazing history, and an amazing book. A friend of mine just saw the Dead Sea Scrolls in Kansas City not long ago, and it is just amazing at how the texts align so closely with the Bible we have now...I don't even think the differences that are there really change the meaning even. It's amazing all the faith people put in things that were just written yesterday from someone's imagination, but they do not see that Scripture's Truth.

Quath wrote:

My guess is that God's words in the Bible were recorded like they are today. Some preacher says he hears God and someone writes it down as fact. So maybe if you are uncomfortable judging God, maybe you would beel more comfortable wondering if he was recorded correctly.

I think you are coming to this conclusion without really giving any real thought to the idea that Scripture could be true. You post things that seem to identify your hurtles...God's instruction to kill children, God's refusal to show a sign, God's supposed contradictions in Scripture, The lack of evidence (in your opinion) of God's ability to answer prayer, and so on. I sometimes think, does he post this stuff just to ruffle our feathers? Probably! :-D I also think that it is revealing your heart...I think you do want a true sign from God to prove to you He is real...something concrete in your mind. I know many of us here desire to give you one, and maybe you also desire that, but there is only one, and it comes through the Word, and through the Holy Spirit, but you do not seem to be truly able to give them a chance now in your adult life.

I think you should scrap all that you ever knew...good or bad....about the Bible, and God, and simply read it without all the commentary, or motive. If you read it in a sincere manner, then maybe you will see what the crazy Christians see, maybe God might just bless you with eyes, bless you with your witness (sign) that you seem to want, bless you with the Holy Spirit to teach you...talk to you, and help you discern God's voice. Maybe you will have absolute Truth by the end and be less willing to judge God, or His Word as you do now. Maybe you think that if you bought into God's Word that you would just be duped like so many Christians, but maybe you are duped now. I hope you can question the things you know, and see that Jesus is the Word of Truth. That's my prayer for you, and your family.

Sometimes when you post, I pray that God will give me the words to turn your heart toward Him, the words of life. The thing is, you may already own a copy of them...or can get one very easily. I should be praying that He prepare your heart to hear them. God has placed us in a very blessed time when His Word is so easily available to us, but we need to be open to Him. I pray that you will stop seeing us as crazies that talk to God, and join us! :-D Really, just see that there has been a transformation in our lives. I am not talking about perfection, or freedom from life's cares, or checking your brain at the door, but grace and a relationship with the One who loves us so much that He sent His Son to die for us. God loves you that much, Scott. As believer's we are instructed to love others with God's love, and share this message simply because God loves them, and longs to call them son. I am also sharing it because I long to call your brother.


The Lord bless you.

 

[Rick W]

So that seems to imply that abortion is not so bad after all.

So man "becomes" God to dictate who lives and who dies. That's no better than what you are arguing against God. It's OK for man to take a child's life but not God.
If you're so hot against killing children then why do you support abortion?

 

[Quath]

Anyway, I think ALone and potluck are correct, we can not judge God...He is the Giver of life, of blessing, and has the authority to take it away. We have no authority outside of that He gives us. He is also the Giver of eternal life, Quath, and will ultimately judge us.

What this says to me is that your beliefs justify your beliefs.

So, some may put Him on trial now (not having all the evidence), but really what God is offering is a pardon for us, because we are the guilty. It's neat that He offers us a pardon, even when we desire to judge Him.

Allah offers heaven as well. Odin offers Vahalla. Buddha offers Nirvanah. Yet you have decided you can judge them. Why is it so easy to judge other gods but your own?

I am also thinking that you sort of summed up Scripture pretty quickly. I wonder if any other books, like those in Scripture, have been preserved as long, or as safely, or perhaps as divinely?

I agree that the Bible is pretty well perserved, but I don't think that means too much. For example, I would not believe a perfectly preserved Illiad were true. Just because ancient people wrote down the words of god(s) doesn't mean it really happened. I see no difference in the Bible and the Illiad.

I think you are coming to this conclusion without really giving any real thought to the idea that Scripture could be true.

I see scripture on many levels. On one level, I see it as part of a story and see if the plot and characters makes sense. On another, I see it as expression of culture. On another, I see it as ways people try to assert control, power of guidelines. On another, I see it in a modern context. I am not just starting from the point of view that it is all a lie. But in some sense you are correct.

I sometimes think, does he post this stuff just to ruffle our feathers? Probably! :-D I also think that it is revealing your heart...

Probably a little of both. I remember a story where a Chinese woman is placed on a raft and set into the water. The raft goes off into the water and breaks apart. The woman drowns and is considered married to the water god. That story saddens me a lot. What a waste. I wish I could talk to them and help them realize the sadness. But I can't. They know they are right and nothing anyone says could change their beliefs.

Likewise, I wonder what it does to someone to worship a deity that they believe is pefectly good and yet orders children or homosexuals to be killed. That saddens me as well. But I know my words changes no one so maybe I just have to settle for a few ruffles feathers. ;)

I think you do want a true sign from God to prove to you He is real...something concrete in your mind.

If God is real, then I do want a sign. If he is not, then I will keep going on with my life. I am not specifically looking for a sign from God any more than I am looking for a sign from Buddha. But if Buddha or God is real, I would like to know.

I am not talking about perfection, or freedom from life's cares, or checking your brain at the door, but grace and a relationship with the One who loves us so much that He sent His Son to die for us. God loves you that much, Scott.

I think some of or differences is in how we see this. Even if I believed that God sent Jesus to die for us, it makes no sense to me. I see it as a needless sacrifice when God could have just chosen to forgive without ceremony. If God is all powerful, then he could have done that. On top of it, Jesus's death sounds more like a coma, so what was really lost? There was no sacrifice without loss.

I know you are a good person and we probably agree on so many issues. It is just our views on how the universe runs is were we see things differently. Que sera sera.

It's OK for man to take a child's life but not God.
If you're so hot against killing children then why do you support abortion?

I am not saying it is ok for men to kill children. It is understandable since humans are not perfectly good. But I do not see how a perfectly good deity with unlimited powers would ever desire for children to be run through with swords.

My stance on abortion is that I see a fetus as a developing human. So a fetus dieing is not as bad to me as a child dieing since a child is fully human. As a fetus ages, I think it should get more and more rights as it becomes more and more human.

 

[Rick W]

My stance on abortion is that I see a fetus as a developing human. So a fetus dieing is not as bad to me as a child dieing since a child is fully human. As a fetus ages, I think it should get more and more rights as it becomes more and more human.

Doesn't matter when the killing is done, in the womb or after birth, the result is the same, a human being will not exist. The future will go on without his/her input of existance in this world. Period. Gone. Will not be.

You attempt to claim biblical evidence for abortion using as your example a god that you believe doesn't exist. From your point of view you base your argument on a wisp of nothing stating that because a god that doesn't exist did evil in your sight that means abortion is ok. If that god doesn't exist then how could an evil be done? And if you truly believe an evil has been by the one you accuse then you admit that God does indeed exist.
It's quite a paradox really when you think about it standing where you are as an atheist. If you support abortion then from your view you do the same as the one you condemn, who doesn't exist anyway. I would have to say that for you to hold the high ground your stance on abortion should be pro-life. That way you can at least have some ground from which to point an accusing finger at a wisp of nothing.

 

[Quath]

Doesn't matter when the killing is done, in the womb or after birth, the result is the same, a human being will not exist. The future will go on without his/her input of existance in this world. Period. Gone. Will not be.

The same statement could be said of birth control. Practicing birth control results in some humans not existing. Yet most people don't see birth control as evil.

You attempt to claim biblical evidence for abortion using as your example a god that you believe doesn't exist. From your point of view you base your argument on a wisp of nothing stating that because a god that doesn't exist did evil in your sight that means abortion is ok. If that god doesn't exist then how could an evil be done? And if you truly believe an evil has been by the one you accuse then you admit that God does indeed exist.

I am showing an article that argues from a Christian point of view about abortion. The way I see abortion is separate from any of these issues and has nothing to do with Christianity or God. What I am seeing is how Christians respond to arguments based on scripture and an honest attempt of one Christian to try to find out what was meant as opposed to what people's values are today.

What I am trying to understand is if Christians really do try to figure out what scripture really meant or if they just are trying to reinforce the beliefs they already have.

I am not judging who is right or wrong in what view of abortion they have, I am more interested in their stance when information from that article is presented to them. Does it cause Christians to study it? Do Christians just agree? Or is it just ignored?

 

[Rick W]

Actually, I will stop short of making that claim. In fact, I will stop short of making the claim that the Bible condemns or supports abortion at all. It does neither.

The bible neither directly condemns or supports pediophilia. Using the authors basis of argument then that too is ok.
No mention doesn't mean something is ok as the author suggests. That argument has been used here on this forum over and over again. But why if there is no mention can't the opposite be true... that's it's not ok. So it depends entirely on which side of the fence you're on making the argument useless in any case no matter who uses it.

I didn't see much protest when Planned Parenthood introduced abortion for extenuating circumstances such as health for the mother. But it didn't remain that way for long and became a "fix" or "cure all" for sexual immorality, and for the sake of convenience. And that's when all the hubbub began.

 

[Veritas]

What I am seeing is how Christians respond to arguments based on scripture and an honest attempt of one Christian to try to find out what was meant as opposed to what people's values are today.

I am not judging who is right or wrong in what view of abortion they have, I am more interested in their stance when information from that article is presented to them. Does it cause Christians to study it? Do Christians just agree? Or is it just ignored?

Quath, that is just cold.