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Absolutely True

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#1
There are many religions (Groups) who make truth claims, claims that are absolute in nature. Does this not shut the door to further learning and understanding, does this not make people stop a continuation of the quest for knowledge?

What more does anyone need to know, once they believe they have the truth (Note: I say believe here, and not "Knowing" the truth)

I would think that when you really know something, you can also demonstrate what you know factually. I have yet to come across any believer who can demonstrate their beliefs and ground them on facts. This is because of the subjective nature of belief itself, which is a cause for experiential information only.
 
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#2
There are many religions (Groups) who make truth claims, claims that are absolute in nature. Does this not shut the door to further learning and understanding, does this not make people stop a continuation of the quest for knowledge?

What more does anyone need to know, once they believe they have the truth (Note: I say believe here, and not "Knowing" the truth)

I would think that when you really know something, you can also demonstrate what you know factually. I have yet to come across any believer who can demonstrate their beliefs and ground them on facts. This is because of the subjective nature of belief itself, which is a cause for experiential information only.
TaNaKh and New Testament are objective truth.

Someone's personal knowledge of Christ is subjective.

For example if I told you all about how I became Born Again but could not take you to the actual moment where you could observe such, that would be subjective.

Now if I told you Jesus fed 5000 from a few fish and few loaves of bread and there were several to hundreds to thousands who witnessed such, that is objective evidence of an event.

Of course one would be expected to examine the evidence with other evidence and investigate the veracity of the eyewitness sources.

The Bible is open for examination. Yet most skeptics impeach the witness of the Bible and refuse to examine such. I mean really examine the sources without preconceptions.

So we come to a decision point. You are either going to examine the testimony of the most attested to documents of antiquity (hands down) or you will rely on the "skeptics bible" notes from some website.

Which will it be?
 
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#3
TaNaKh and New Testament are objective truth.

Someone's personal knowledge of Christ is subjective.

For example if I told you all about how I became Born Again but could not take you to the actual moment where you could observe such, that would be subjective.

Now if I told you Jesus fed 5000 from a few fish and few loaves of bread and there were several to hundreds to thousands who witnessed such, that is objective evidence of an event.

Of course one would be expected to examine the evidence with other evidence and investigate the veracity of the eyewitness sources.

The Bible is open for examination. Yet most skeptics impeach the witness of the Bible and refuse to examine such. I mean really examine the sources without preconceptions.

So we come to a decision point. You are either going to examine the testimony of the most attested to documents of antiquity (hands down) or you will rely on the "skeptics bible" notes from some website.

Which will it be?
You shouldn't assume that someone who is questioning the nature of someones belief has not read those books, those books that the believer attributes to the cause of their beliefs.

I wont go on into details of how well versed I am on biblical grounds, but I will say that the bible is not foreign to me.

This is a perfect example of how the bible and other books like it make truth claims of an absolute nature. If something is believed to be 100% absolute, then there is no door to advance or change ones precepts. A question I'd ask is how is it possible to know the truth in this absolutist way?
 
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#4
There are many religions (Groups) who make truth claims, claims that are absolute in nature. Does this not shut the door to further learning and understanding, does this not make people stop a continuation of the quest for knowledge?
No. It does not.
Knowing one thing to be true does not prevent someone from seeking further information.
Thus, having learned that 1+1=2, a child can go on to find that 1+2=3 and, eventually she can do integral calculus in her head and is making advances in string theory. But 1+1=2 remains absolute truth.
 
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#5
No. It does not.
Knowing one thing to be true does not prevent someone from seeking further information.
Thus, having learned that 1+1=2, a child can go on to find that 1+2=3 and, eventually she can do integral calculus in her head and is making advances in string theory. But 1+1=2 remains absolute truth.
What do you need to know, you have the truth. What else needs to be equated?
 
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#6
What do you need to know, you have the truth. What else needs to be equated?
What do you mean by truth?

I need to know how to be so much like Christ that when someone meets me, he/she falls in love with Jesus.
I need to know, by direct experience, how deep and wide and high is God's love for me and, therefore, all of creation.
 
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#7
What do you mean by truth?

I need to know how to be so much like Christ that when someone meets me, he/she falls in love with Jesus.
I need to know, by direct experience, how deep and wide and high is God's love for me and, therefore, all of creation.
I surely don't know, but if you are one of those believers who thinks they know the truth in a absolute way, then you'll have to explain it to me.
 
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#8
This is a perfect example of how the bible and other books like it make truth claims of an absolute nature. If something is believed to be 100% absolute, then there is no door to advance or change ones precepts. A question I'd ask is how is it possible to know the truth in this absolutist way?
That response means your Biblical and Christian theological knowledge is of the skeptic website variant.

Why didn't you just answer in such a manner.

I guess your question is why I would believe the God of the Bible? Is that your question?
 
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#10
That response means your Biblical and Christian theological knowledge is of the skeptic website variant.

Why didn't you just answer in such a manner.

I guess your question is why I would believe the God of the Bible? Is that your question?
I know why I don't believe the god of the bible, and there is simply no way to explain it to you. Unless you suddenly wake up one day and realise the same things I did, then you would stop believing.

You are a Christian I assume? Have you been an Ex-Christian?
 

LovethroughDove

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#12
I surely don't know, but if you are one of those believers who thinks they know the truth in a absolute way, then you'll have to explain it to me.
So, we are not perfect (you can tell how the world operates that this is true). We have war and anger and other things that make this world (not perfect). In religious terms it is called sin and this is what keeps us separated from God (love, light and holiness)

We think that this world was created for us, but this is not true. God is harvesting souls out of the world for his eternal kingdom. His eternal family. Jesus compares it to a field and weeds are growing along with the good crop.

In the beginning of the Bible it tells of creation. I don't remember what day of creation God talks about the birds (we are now learning that dinosaurs were very birdlike). The comparison of the extinction of dinosaurs (meteor) and the description of what Jesus looks like at the second coming...........He looks like a meteor entering the atmosphere. (No coincidence)

Anyways, the point of Jesus coming into the world in the flesh was to conquer it. We cannot be perfect in the flesh, because it is fallen and it craves earthly pleasures. Jesus conquered the flesh. There is no reason not to believe he is the Christ and the Bible says that those who do not believe.....do not believe because they love their sin more. They love the world more than love, light and holiness.

When we believe in the resurrection and that Jesus is who he says he is, we have been given the truth. The truth covers us when we die, so we are able to stand in front of a just and holy God. We are allowed to be part of his eternal kingdom.

Maybe you'll understand?
 
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#13
So, we are not perfect (you can tell how the world operates that this is true). We have war and anger and other things that make this world (not perfect). In religious terms it is called sin and this is what keeps us separated from God (love, light and holiness)

We think that this world was created for us, but this is not true. God is harvesting souls out of the world for his eternal kingdom. His eternal family. Jesus compares it to a field and weeds are growing along with the good crop.

In the beginning of the Bible it tells of creation. I don't remember what day of creation God talks about the birds (we are now learning that dinosaurs were very birdlike). The comparison of the extinction of dinosaurs (meteor) and the description of what Jesus looks like at the second coming...........He looks like a meteor entering the atmosphere. (No coincidence)

Anyways, the point of Jesus coming into the world in the flesh was to conquer it. We cannot be perfect in the flesh, because it is fallen and it craves earthly pleasures. Jesus conquered the flesh. There is no reason not to believe he is the Christ and the Bible says that those who do not believe.....do not believe because they love their sin more. They love the world more than love, light and holiness.

When we believe in the resurrection and that Jesus is who he says he is, we have been given the truth. The truth covers us when we die, so we are able to stand in front of a just and holy God. We are allowed to be part of his eternal kingdom.

Maybe you'll understand?
On a personal level, I cringe at the idea of an eternal family I'd have to spend forever with. A family is a hierarchy, which is a human concept not a spiritual one.
 

LovethroughDove

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#14
On a personal level, I cringe at the idea of an eternal family I'd have to spend forever with. A family is a hierarchy, which is a human concept not a spiritual one.
That is why Jesus calls God our Father. I love my family, but I do know there are people out there that despise family and my sister is one of those...........so I do understand there are people out there.
 
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#15
That is why Jesus calls God our Father. I love my family, but I do know there are people out there that despise family and my sister is one of those...........so I do understand there are people out there.
When family is number 1 then everyone else in the community is number 2. No one in this arrangement can accept anyone else who is not apart of their family, as of the same value as number 1.
 

LovethroughDove

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#16
When family is number 1 then everyone else in the community is number 2. No one in this arrangement can accept anyone else who is not apart of their family, as of the same value as number 1.
When God is number 1, then family and community can be equally important.
 

LovethroughDove

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#19
Never gonna happen LovethroughDove.
If people wanted true love, it would. I remember how I felt before I knew what love is. I felt hopeless and acted out very inappropriately because it feels like you're always trying to prove something.
 
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