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Absolutely True

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#21
There are many religions (Groups) who make truth claims, claims that are absolute in nature. Does this not shut the door to further learning and understanding, does this not make people stop a continuation of the quest for knowledge?

What more does anyone need to know, once they believe they have the truth (Note: I say believe here, and not "Knowing" the truth)

I would think that when you really know something, you can also demonstrate what you know factually. I have yet to come across any believer who can demonstrate their beliefs and ground them on facts. This is because of the subjective nature of belief itself, which is a cause for experiential information only.
You might see the recent thread I started in the Apologetics forum under the title "Belief vs. Knowledge." It went downhill pretty fast, as they always do, but I think my original post in that forum does address what you're getting at.
 
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#22
I know why I don't believe the god of the bible, and there is simply no way to explain it to you. Unless you suddenly wake up one day and realise the same things I did, then you would stop believing.

You are a Christian I assume? Have you been an Ex-Christian?
So you are here on a Christian site to share the testimony of your falling away or apostasy. In doing so you hope to free the minds of backwaters hillbillies who reside here.

Do I have your condescending precis correct above?

Or did I leave out the meekness of such an approach. That you are posting here to truly help us out? How kind!

Oh and if you don't want to get a Reba torpedo I'd back off on the little "g" for God. Such is a non starter as the Christians who post here know God personally.
 
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#25
On a personal level, I cringe at the idea of an eternal family I'd have to spend forever with. A family is a hierarchy, which is a human concept not a spiritual one.
What makes you think your idea of what is spiritual is correct?
 
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#27
I surely don't know, but if you are one of those believers who thinks they know the truth in a absolute way, then you'll have to explain it to me.
When I asked, "What do you mean by truth?", I was asking for some frame of reference so that I could respond to your questions.
If you surely don't know what you mean when you use the word "truth" then I can have no idea how to explain. :shrug
Sorry
 
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#28
What love looks like is number 1. If you know what love is, that is number 1.
I am speaking in worldly terms when I say "Family is number 1" It is what those people say, when they speaking of the importance of family.

Ha! I have even heard our local Christian radio station say as a mantra "Family is number 1"
 
R

Runner

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#30
I surely don't know, but if you are one of those believers who thinks they know the truth in a absolute way, then you'll have to explain it to me.
You don't know what absolute truth is, but you do know that God is a "figment"? You don't know what absolute truth is, but you do know that if Christian believers woke up one day and realized the same things you do, they would stop believing? You are a very confused fellow.

Atheism posits what it regards as the absolute truth of the nonexistence of God. Every religion posits what it regards as the absolute truth about the ultimate cause and nature of reality. Obviously, some or all of those "absolute truths" are false. ("All" because it is possible that absolute truth bears no resemblance to anything that any of us now believes.)

I cannot KNOW to an absolute certainty that atheism or Buddhism or Islam is false. I likewise cannot KNOW to an absolute certainty that Christianity is true. I can reach a strong conviction that Christianity is the most likely to be true of all the available alternatives and live my life accordingly.

Someone else may reach a different conviction. Because of the convictions we have reached, we have different understandings of what constitutes ultimate truth. If we are honest with ourselves and each other, we will have to admit that all we have are strong convictions, not knowledge.

When you confidently state that God is a figment or that Christians would stop believing if they realized what you do, you merely demonstrate that you do not even understand the issues or the questions you are asking. I can state with equal confidence - and equal inanity - that if you realized what I realize, you'd be a devout Christian. And how would that move the discussion forward?

Not all convictions are entitled to equal respect, of course. If you reached yours (for example) after reaching the Operating Thetan III level of Scientology, don't expect me to take you seriously. I know the effort I have put into reaching my conviction. If someone has put an equal effort into reaching a different conviction, I'm happy to at least listen.

After a promising start with your original post, you quickly dropped the mask and revealed that you were not really here to sincerely inquire into others' views but only to promote your own conviction that God is a figment of believers' imagination and that this "truth" would be equally apparent to believers if only they "realised" [sic] what you do. When someone starts down that path, I simply show them the door. 'Bye now.
 
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#32
You don't know what absolute truth is, but you do know that God is a "figment"? You don't know what absolute truth is, but you do know that if Christian believers woke up one day and realized the same things you do, they would stop believing? You are a very confused fellow.

Atheism posits what it regards as the absolute truth of the nonexistence of God. Every religion posits what it regards as the absolute truth about the ultimate cause and nature of reality. Obviously, some or all of those "absolute truths" are false. ("All" because it is possible that absolute truth bears no resemblance to anything that any of us now believes.)

I cannot KNOW to an absolute certainty that atheism or Buddhism or Islam is false. I likewise cannot KNOW to an absolute certainty that Christianity is true. I can reach a strong conviction that Christianity is the most likely to be true of all the available alternatives and live my life accordingly.

Someone else may reach a different conviction. Because of the convictions we have reached, we have different understandings of what constitutes ultimate truth. If we are honest with ourselves and each other, we will have to admit that all we have are strong convictions, not knowledge.

When you confidently state that God is a figment or that Christians would stop believing if they realized what you do, you merely demonstrate that you do not even understand the issues or the questions you are asking. I can state with equal confidence - and equal inanity - that if you realized what I realize, you'd be a devout Christian. And how would that move the discussion forward?

Not all convictions are entitled to equal respect, of course. If you reached yours (for example) after reaching the Operating Thetan III level of Scientology, don't expect me to take you seriously. I know the effort I have put into reaching my conviction. If someone has put an equal effort into reaching a different conviction, I'm happy to at least listen.

After a promising start with your original post, you quickly dropped the mask and revealed that you were not really here to sincerely inquire into others' views but only to promote your own conviction that God is a figment of believers' imagination and that this "truth" would be equally apparent to believers if only they "realised" [sic] what you do. When someone starts down that path, I simply show them the door. 'Bye now.
To me god is a figment, because it has no substantial substance which any of my senses can rely on.

If you look closely, you'll see that the substance of your god or gods are reliant on subjective experiential information. Nothing you can demonstrate in applied science.
 
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#33
To me god is a figment, because it has no substantial substance which any of my senses can rely on.
If you look closely, you'll see that the substance of your god or gods are reliant on subjective experiential information. Nothing you can demonstrate in applied science.
You are correct.
God is not subject to scientific investigation.
The universe, or nature, is subject to scientific investigation.
God is not part of nature.
And your senses are not the final proof of what is and what is not reality.
 
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#34
To me god is a figment, because it has no substantial substance which any of my senses can rely on.

If you look closely, you'll see that the substance of your god or gods are reliant on subjective experiential information. Nothing you can demonstrate in applied science.
You are coming very close to the line .... When some one is seeking God it shows in their words...

2.1: This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity (or declare that it is false) and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act. Please read: Statement of Faith

Questions for Christians (Q&A)
A place for seekers to ask open, honest questions about our faith.

CFnet is not here to give a platform to non believers ...

Do not reply to this post in this thread...
 
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#35
You are correct.
God is not subject to scientific investigation.
The universe, or nature, is subject to scientific investigation.
God is not part of nature.
And your senses are not the final proof of what is and what is not reality.
No, but if none of my senses can substantiate anything real when it comes to god. What am I to do?
 
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#36
No, but if none of my senses can substantiate anything real when it comes to god. What am I to do?
You could ask God if He's real but, but I don't believe you are serious.
So do whatever you like.
Try thinking outside your box.
 
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#37
See, unless god is real enough it is only a figment. How can anything that does not touch any of my senses be anything but a 0.

Why put something like that as number 1.
Investigators investigate. The Bible is open for examination. Take the challenge.
 

Mike

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#38
No, but if none of my senses can substantiate anything real when it comes to god. What am I to do?
Believers can prove the existence of God to non-believers no more than non-believers can prove to believers that He doesn't. Archeology, history, eye-witness testimony, and reason can be used to open the mind of the non-believer. Only God will open the heart.

If you are closed to the possibility and intentionally disbelieving in Him, you will not experience Him. To the believer, He is tangible and fully experiential. I believe you have probably isolated yourself to the opinions of skeptics with an agenda, because there are extremely knowledgeable and convincing believers who are available on YouTube and other sites who defy the misconception that scholars and people of science must conclude that He doesn't exist and the biblical accounts of Christ are false.

You are welcome here as long as your agenda is to ask questions and respectfully discuss faith-related matters. To reba's point, it is not a place for you to scoff or attempt to dissuade.
 

JohnDB

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#39
We, the Christians have a personal relationship with God. Some of us know Him as well as we would a spouse or son or daughter.
(I'm currently in another losing argument with Him at the moment)
And for whatever reason you claim that we are not right. When we know that the person you claim doesn't exist is at work in each of our lives. We see the results on a regular basis.
With God, there are no games, no half measures. He will find you IF you sincerely seek Him.
God is Holy... that means that this isn't tame stuff. It is dangerous. There is only one way to deal with God... with absolute respect and humility. Omniscience and omnipotence alone should frighten you to the core.
 
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#40
2 “I have loved you,” says the Lord. But you say, “How have you loved us?” “Is not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “Yet I have loved Jacob I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert.” Malachi 1:2-3

Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." Romans 9:13
 
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