Growth Abundant life?

[brother Paul]

Now let’s examine this verse…John 10:10 says “The thief comes to steal, kill, and to destroy, but I am come that they might have life (Zoe), and that they might have it (Zoe) more abundantly (perissos).”


Life: Zoe – vitality, animated, usually applied to spiritual life (as in aionios zoas) as opposed to biological life (called bios)


Abundantly: perissos - exceeding some number or measure or rank or need; superior, extraordinary, surpassing, uncommon


It is clear that John here is speaking of Zoas life not Bios life….and the “more abundantly” is referring to a more abundant form of this life (Zoe).


You see the spirit man that makes human beings a living soul, just like angels, are created to exist forever. No one ceases to exist. Eternal life is not a continuation of this bios type life. It is NOT about the quantity of life, but a new quality of life. The one we were always meant to enjoy. Only those who know God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent have this quality of life. Only these can exist in the presence of God.


This passage (John 10:10) does not speak of His giving us an abundant “bios” life, OR a life of abundance. It is the promise of the Spirit of Christ in us (the hope of glory) by which we are His children (a new order of being, a new creation). It is not something we obtain upon death but it is a present reality that will never cease. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ in them are not His.


But yet, I hear and am asked all the time by Christian men and women “Where is this abundance we are supposed to have?” They somehow think that they are supposed to have wealth and health and the things of this world, but this is not speaking of such things.


Even so, if one thinks of the time and the people Jesus said this to, who lived then in what they thought modern times, to get from Damascus to Jerusalem took days and they travelled by foot or donkey. They had no entertainment or the joy of snacking or going out in the evening for a fun time. They had no transportation, no electric lights, no water from the faucets. In fact each day one would have to carry large pots to a well or river and carry water to the home making some days a number of trips just to drink and cook let alone wash their few sets of clothes. If they wanted some bread they had to grind the wheat first to make their own flour. Life was continuously laborious.


Now we on the other hand have all sorts of luxuries, foods to choose from, running water, healthcare, transportation, entertainment…and much more, and yet daily we complain and find ourselves stressed and bored. Therefore even if the materialist interpretation were true (which it is not) we in fact actually do have a more abundant life, but sadly I find less and less gratitude and more and more attitude.


Please, my brother and sisters, spread the gratitude. Be of good cheer. Be grateful for all you have or the little you have, but most of all rejoice for you know God not just OF God. You know Christ not just OF Christ. Believe Him not just IN Him…and pray for our family in other lands where they are oppressed and slaughtered for their faith for one day such things could come to your land. Remember from whence cometh your wine and your flax…if your day is a day with God it is a good day. Amen

 

[for_his_glory]

Very enlightening post, thank you as many need to hear this.

Prosperity Preachers will always preach monetary worldly gain as they selfishly line their pockets by the monetary they gain from those who lack knowledge in this area of abundance. God never promised any more than to meet our needs as that of food and shelter. Jesus never worried where he would lay his head or what he would eat or wear as he knew God would supply his needs while here on earth as he was about his Fathers business taking no concern for the material earthly things. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with having nice things, but if one puts the material before that of God in their life than the material becomes their god. Philippians 4:19; Exodus 20:3-6

 

[Angel]

Please, my brother and sisters, spread the gratitude. Be of good cheer. Be grateful for all you have or the little you have, but most of all rejoice for you know God not just OF God. You know Christ not just OF Christ. Believe Him not just IN Him…and pray for our family in other lands where they are oppressed and slaughtered for their faith for one day such things could come to your land. Remember from whence cometh your wine and your flax…if your day is a day with God it is a good day. Amen

Amen.

 

[iLOVE]

We are in Christ and Christ can't lose (Gal. 2:20-21 NKJV). Glory be to God! Pick up your own Cross daily and receive the benefits from the Cross (Luke 9:23). The Blood of Jesus has done it all! So we live a victorious life and an abundant life in Christ Jesus. Believe on Jesus Christ and believe what He did at Calvary. Nothing was left undone!

When a Christian faith is maintained exclusively in Christ and the Cross, i.e., Finished Work, i.e., The Blood of Jesus, the scripture says, "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." Romans 8:28 NKJV

Remember, God only awards righteousness by maintaining faith exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work. Romans 4:5

The Holy Spirit, He Works strictly within the parameters of the "Finished Work" i.e., "the Cross of Christ", which demands that our Faith be exclusively in the Cross of Christ. The reason is simple, that's were the price was paid, and the victory was forever won (Romans 6:1-14; 1 Cor. 2:2; Gal. 5; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 2:14-15).

The Holy Spirit doesn't require much of us, but He does require one thing, and without reservation. Our Faith must be exclusively be in Christ and the Cross, understanding that this is God's Prescribed Order of Victory. When we stay "victory" we are speaking Victory in every capacity, be it spiritual, financial, domestically, physical, etc. God's Prescribed Order of Victory is "the Cross of Christ."

The Way Of The Spirit
Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)

Man's Way
Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Defeat!

The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

 

[Jim Parker]

Prosperity Preachers will always preach monetary worldly gain as they selfishly line their pockets by the monetary they gain from those who lack knowledge in this area of abundance.

Paul agrees:
1Ti 6:3-5 (RSV) If any one teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching which accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit, he knows nothing; he has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among men who are depraved in mind and bereft of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.

 

[Kidron]

-
Would you want your children to be in poverty so that you can tell all your friends..."look at how spiritual they are THO, ...they are usually starving, have few clothes, no home, no car, no phone, no money, but they have a lot of "godliness with contentment"""
So, really, there is a point of ridiculousness with any of this type of self righteous "theology", and a total lack of spiritual wisdom and understanding.

You might think of it like this....
Do you want you kids to have nothing?........?
Then why do you think the Heavenly Father would want His Children to have nothing?
Do you actually think that poverty makes you spiritual?
Poverty makes you just a spiritual as being sick makes you holy.
= Not at all.
So really, its not the "having" or the "possessing" that is the issue, its the pursuit and the focus of a person's life that is the Issue....can be their BIG problem.
If a person can't love God and have money, then they cant love God and be broke.
As the person is the issue..
The PERSON.....because its a HEART ISSUE, a MOTIVE ISSUE.

Prosperity is a blessing from God, its not curse.
Money is not bad for you, but rather YOU are bad for yourself if you cant handle having any, or if all you do is lust for more.

You recall that it is God who gives us power to get wealth?....Deut 8:18
You recall the richest man who ever lived is not D. Trump, ...its Solomon, as God prospered him this way.
How much do you think King David's Throne is worth that Jesus will be sitting on for 1000 years?
Would you have God manifested in the flesh sitting on a worn out Lazy Boy to prove He is not "carnal" and "pursuing that awful prosperity"?
How much do you think the Ark of the Covenant is worth according to the "gold market" report, 7-20-2016. ???
Did u ever read about the Streets of Gold and the actual materials that make up the "New Jerusalem"?
Then you say,...." but Jesus came and had nothing".
Yet, he walked on the very earth that He created thats full of Gold and Jewels and precious stones..., and as He is God, he owns it all, including you, and all your stuff.
Its His....its not yours.....(all your stuff).....He just loaned it to you, so be a good Steward now....hear???.
And take care of all His Money and STUFF that you thought was yours because you are not realizing WHOM YOU BELONG TO.

See, when you tithe, you are giving Him 10% of what is HIS, as ALL YOUR MONEY IS BEING LOANED TO YOU BY THE GRACE OF GOD, as THIS IS PROSPERITY.....!
You dont realize this?
You dont realize that the 10% tithe, comes out of His 100% that He is prospering you to ENJOY that He owns?
Time to start realizing a few things about what you actually dont own, and who owns you and all of THAT.

Here is something else.
A former Hindu, who lives in India, is drinking from a dirty warm river that they just bathed in, among other things.
He looks at you, with your car(s), and your clothes, and your AC, and your full refrigerator, and your Home, and your 3- 4 meals a day diet, and your 2 bank accounts, and your Credit Cards, and your Cable and your BIG Screen LCD TV , and he thinks that you are the most worldly carnal possession obsessed idolator pretending to be a "spirit filled Christian" that ever lived, while he notes that you are judging others for having any prosperity as if they are not just like you, except you are worse.

So, you have to keep things in CONTEXT, and see them for REAL.
Gotta keep it real.

 

[for_his_glory]

-
Would you want your children to be in poverty so that you can tell all your friends..."look at how spiritual they are THO, ...they are usually starving, have few clothes, no home, no car, no phone, no money, but they have a lot of "godliness with contentment"""
So, really, there is a point of ridiculousness with any of this type of self righteous "theology", and a total lack of spiritual wisdom and understanding.

You might think of it like this....
Do you want you kids to have nothing?........?
Then why do you think the Heavenly Father would want His Children to have nothing?
Do you actually think that poverty makes you spiritual?
Poverty makes you just a spiritual as being sick makes you holy.
= Not at all.
So really, its not the "having" or the "possessing" that is the issue, its the pursuit and the focus of a person's life that is the Issue....can be their BIG problem.
If a person can't love God and have money, then they cant love God and be broke.
As the person is the issue..
The PERSON.....because its a HEART ISSUE, a MOTIVE ISSUE.

Prosperity is a blessing from God, its not curse.
Money is not bad for you, but rather YOU are bad for yourself if you cant handle having any, or if all you do is lust for more.

You recall that it is God who gives us power to get wealth?....Deut 8:18
You recall the richest man who ever lived is not D. Trump, ...its Solomon, as God prospered him this way.
How much do you think King David's Throne is worth that Jesus will be sitting on for 1000 years?
Would you have God manifested in the flesh sitting on a worn out Lazy Boy to prove He is not "carnal" and "pursuing that awful prosperity"?
How much do you think the Ark of the Covenant is worth according to the "gold market" report, 7-20-2016. ???
Did u ever read about the Streets of Gold and the actual materials that make up the "New Jerusalem"?
Then you say,...." but Jesus came and had nothing".
Yet, he walked on the very earth that He created thats full of Gold and Jewels and precious stones..., and as He is God, he owns it all, including you, and all your stuff.
Its His....its not yours.....(all your stuff).....He just loaned it to you, so be a good Steward now....hear???.
And take care of all His Money and STUFF that you thought was yours because you are not realizing WHOM YOU BELONG TO.

See, when you tithe, you are giving Him 10% of what is HIS, as ALL YOUR MONEY IS BEING LOANED TO YOU BY THE GRACE OF GOD, as THIS IS PROSPERITY.....!
You dont realize this?
You dont realize that the 10% tithe, comes out of His 100% that He is prospering you to ENJOY that He owns?
Time to start realizing a few things about what you actually dont own, and who owns you and all of THAT.

Here is something else.
A former Hindu, who lives in India, is drinking from a dirty warm river that they just bathed in, among other things.
He looks at you, with your car(s), and your clothes, and your AC, and your full refrigerator, and your Home, and your 3- 4 meals a day diet, and your 2 bank accounts, and your Credit Cards, and your Cable and your BIG Screen LCD TV , and he thinks that you are the most worldly carnal possession obsessed idolator pretending to be a "spirit filled Christian" that ever lived, while he notes that you are judging others for having any prosperity as if they are not just like you, except you are worse.

So, you have to keep things in CONTEXT, and see them for REAL.
Gotta keep it real.

Wealth and prosperity does not always mean money as you can read all those scriptures on this website I posted down below. Do you really think God's abundant life is full of material possessions, no, as God said He would supply our need, Philippians 4:9. What is our need other than shelter, food and clothing as God said to be content with what you have and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. These are the riches of God for an abundant life as it is only the flesh that tells you that you live in poverty. These prosperity teachers say blab it and grab it as if you are trusting in God you can be rich like we are and with a love gift of $100.00 we will give you the book or CD's how you can have luxuries like us. These are they that have a form of Godliness, but inside are raving wolves seeking who they can devour, 2Timothy 3:1-7. There is nothing wrong with being rich as long as we are walking in Gods will and handling our finances in a way that brings glory and honor to God as we help others that are in need.

1Timothy 6:1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. 2 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. 3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. 9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

Here is a good website that shows what scripture says about wealth and prosperity that brings about Gods blessings in our life
http://www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_money.htm

 

[Kidron]

Wealth and prosperity does not always mean money as you can read all those scriptures on this website I posted down below. Do you really think God's abundant life is full of material possessions,
http://www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_money.htm

-
Do i really believe that money = the ONLY abundant life that Christ came to provide?
Not at all, but as i wrote in my post, there is a type of fake spirituality that tries to sound by pretense as if money is not necessary, and that money is not ALSO prosperity.
This type of fake spirituality would teach that poverty is God's will and that its only the inner man prospering regarding spirituality that is "godly".
This of course is self righteous nonsense, as all prosperity is not "spiritual"...and "Godliness with contentment is great gain", but its not the only "gain".

Obviously, God would not require of us tithes and offerings if he didnt expect us to have the MONEY to tithe and offer.
Do you see it?
You are online using internet access that costs money, using a device that also costs money.
Had you no prosperity, would this be happening?
And how can we help the poor, as Jesus commanded, if we have no money to help them eat and buy clothes, and have shelter?
Do you actually believe that we can feed their empty stomachs and their kids empty stomachs with "godliness with contentment"?
If they have no bed and no roof, can they sleep on bible scriptures and use the "the poverty Gospel" as their pillow?
Dont you understand that poverty has harmed more already then prosperity ever will?
So, i said, you have to use common sense along with all your spirituality, or you will end up too heavenly minded to be any earthly good at all.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

We are in Christ and Christ can't lose (Gal. 2:20-21 NKJV). Glory be to God! Pick up your own Cross daily and receive the benefits from the Cross (Luke 9:23). The Blood of Jesus has done it all! So we live a victorious life and an abundant life in Christ Jesus. Believe on Jesus Christ and believe what He did at Calvary. Nothing was left undone!

When a Christian faith is maintained exclusively in Christ and the Cross, i.e., Finished Work, i.e., The Blood of Jesus, the scripture says, "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." Romans 8:28 NKJV

Remember, God only awards righteousness by maintaining faith exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work. Romans 4:5

The Holy Spirit, He Works strictly within the parameters of the "Finished Work" i.e., "the Cross of Christ", which demands that our Faith be exclusively in the Cross of Christ. The reason is simple, that's were the price was paid, and the victory was forever won (Romans 6:1-14; 1 Cor. 2:2; Gal. 5; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 2:14-15).

The Holy Spirit doesn't require much of us, but He does require one thing, and without reservation. Our Faith must be exclusively be in Christ and the Cross, understanding that this is God's Prescribed Order of Victory. When we stay "victory" we are speaking Victory in every capacity, be it spiritual, financial, domestically, physical, etc. God's Prescribed Order of Victory is "the Cross of Christ."

The Way Of The Spirit
Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)

Man's Way
Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Defeat!

The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

I don't follow how you can say that the object of our faith is the cross of Christ.
Then you use Romans 6:1-14 as your reference and the cross of Christ is not mentioned even once in that entire passage.
Want to try again?

 

[iLOVE]

I don't follow how you can say that the object of our faith is the cross of Christ.
Then you use Romans 6:1-14 as your reference and the cross of Christ is not mentioned even once in that entire passage.
Want to try again?

Paul said: “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin (the sin nature), that Grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, who are dead to sin (dead to the sin nature), live any longer therein?” (Rom. 6:1-2).

These Passages let us know that sin, i.e., “the sin nature,” is the problem. While Preachers might try to say that this, or that, or something else is the problem, the Holy Spirit tells us that “sin” is the problem. It might be a sin of commission or a sin of omission, but, to be sure, sin is the problem.

He then tells us that the only remedy for sin, the only solution for sin, the only answer to sin, is the Cross of Christ. In other words, the Holy Spirit through Paul takes the Believer straight to the Cross. Remember, Paul is not speaking here to unbelievers, but rather to Believers. As we attempt to live for God, and I mean live for God properly, this tells us that we must ever understand that it is the Cross of Christ where we must begin, and where we must end. There is nothing after the Cross of Christ, because there needs to be nothing after the Cross of Christ.

Paul said, “Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? “Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection” (Rom. 6:3-5).

Now let’s examine these same Passages from THE EXPOSITOR’S STUDY BIBLE.
“Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ (plainly says that this Baptism is into Christ and not water [I Cor. 1:17; 12:13; Gal. 3:28-29; Eph. 4:5; Col. 2:11-13]) were baptized into His Death? (When Christ died on the Cross, in the Mind of God, we died with Him; in other words, He became our Substitute, and our identification with Him in His Death gives us all the benefits for which He died; the idea is that He did it all for us!)

“Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death (not only did we die with Him, but we were buried with Him as well, which means that all the sin and transgression of the past were buried; when they put Him in the Tomb, they put all of our sins into that Tomb as well): that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life (we died with Him, we were buried with Him, and His Resurrection was our Resurrection to a “Newness of Life”).

“For if we have been planted together (with Christ) in the likeness of His death (Paul proclaims the Cross as the instrument through which all Blessings come; consequently, the Cross must ever be the object of our Faith, which gives the Holy Spirit latitude to work within our lives), we shall be also in the likeness of His Resurrection.” (We can have the “likeness of His Resurrection,” i.e., “live this Resurrection Life,” only as long as we understand the “likeness of His Death,” which refers to the Cross as the means by which all of this is done.)

Pastor Jimmy Swaggart - The Message of the Cross

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Paul said: “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin (the sin nature), that Grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, who are dead to sin (dead to the sin nature), live any longer therein?” (Rom. 6:1-2).

These Passages let us know that sin, i.e., “the sin nature,” is the problem. While Preachers might try to say that this, or that, or something else is the problem, the Holy Spirit tells us that “sin” is the problem. It might be a sin of commission or a sin of omission, but, to be sure, sin is the problem.

He then tells us that the only remedy for sin, the only solution for sin, the only answer to sin, is the Cross of Christ. In other words, the Holy Spirit through Paul takes the Believer straight to the Cross. Remember, Paul is not speaking here to unbelievers, but rather to Believers. As we attempt to live for God, and I mean live for God properly, this tells us that we must ever understand that it is the Cross of Christ where we must begin, and where we must end. There is nothing after the Cross of Christ, because there needs to be nothing after the Cross of Christ.

Paul said, “Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? “Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection” (Rom. 6:3-5).

Now let’s examine these same Passages from THE EXPOSITOR’S STUDY BIBLE.
“Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ (plainly says that this Baptism is into Christ and not water [I Cor. 1:17; 12:13; Gal. 3:28-29; Eph. 4:5; Col. 2:11-13]) were baptized into His Death? (When Christ died on the Cross, in the Mind of God, we died with Him; in other words, He became our Substitute, and our identification with Him in His Death gives us all the benefits for which He died; the idea is that He did it all for us!)

“Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death (not only did we die with Him, but we were buried with Him as well, which means that all the sin and transgression of the past were buried; when they put Him in the Tomb, they put all of our sins into that Tomb as well): that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life (we died with Him, we were buried with Him, and His Resurrection was our Resurrection to a “Newness of Life”).

“For if we have been planted together (with Christ) in the likeness of His death (Paul proclaims the Cross as the instrument through which all Blessings come; consequently, the Cross must ever be the object of our Faith, which gives the Holy Spirit latitude to work within our lives), we shall be also in the likeness of His Resurrection.” (We can have the “likeness of His Resurrection,” i.e., “live this Resurrection Life,” only as long as we understand the “likeness of His Death,” which refers to the Cross as the means by which all of this is done.)

Pastor Jimmy Swaggart - The Message of the Cross

I don't understand.
You say Paul leads us straight to the cross, but you show no biblical reference.
Instead of telling us all about the cross, how about showing a single verse to back it up.
If the Holy Spirit takes Paul straight to the cross, where does it say that?
You make the statement "if we are to live for God properly, we must understand that it is the cross of Christ where we must begin, and where we must end".
Who are you talking to when you make this statement?
People on this forum or the Christians of the world?
I contend that most Christians in this world will have no idea how to explain and understand that statement.
Do they not live properly for God?
Go ahead, prove me wrong.
Go out into the streets and pick 100 Christians at random and see how many can answer your question.
Then you go into a study Bible that mentions the cross of Christ in the study but still shows no verses to back up what is being said.

I tend to think you just want to hear yourself talk.
Am I wrong?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You dont realize that the 10% tithe, comes out of His 100% that He is prospering you to ENJOY that He owns?

Are we in the third year when our tithe goes to the widow, orphan, alien, and those in ministry, or are we in the other two when we are to eat our tithe?

22“You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes out of the field every year.23“You shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God, at the place where He chooses to establish His name, the tithe of your grain, your new wine, your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and your flock, so that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. 24“If the distance is so great for you that you are not able to bring the tithe, since the place where the LORD your God chooses to set His name is too far away from you when the LORD your God blesses you, 25then you shall exchange it for money, and bind the money in your hand and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses. 26“You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household. 27“Also you shall not neglect the Levite who is in your town, for he has no portion or inheritance among you.

28“At the end of every third year you shall bring out all the tithe of your produce in that year, and shall deposit it in your town. 29“The Levite, because he has no portion or inheritance among you, and the alien, the orphan and the widow who are in your town, shall come and eat and be satisfied, in order that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do." (Deuteronomy 14:22-29 NASB)

I figure if someone is going to teach us Biblical tithing they can at least let us know if this is a year we consume our own tithe with rejoicing, or whether this is the third year in which we give it to those who depend on us for support.

 

[for_his_glory]

-
Do i really believe that money = the ONLY abundant life that Christ came to provide?
Not at all, but as i wrote in my post, there is a type of fake spirituality that tries to sound by pretense as if money is not necessary, and that money is not ALSO prosperity.
This type of fake spirituality would teach that poverty is God's will and that its only the inner man prospering regarding spirituality that is "godly".
This of course is self righteous nonsense, as all prosperity is not "spiritual"...and "Godliness with contentment is great gain", but its not the only "gain".

Obviously, God would not require of us tithes and offerings if he didnt expect us to have the MONEY to tithe and offer.
Do you see it?
You are online using internet access that costs money, using a device that also costs money.
Had you no prosperity, would this be happening?
And how can we help the poor, as Jesus commanded, if we have no money to help them eat and buy clothes, and have shelter?
Do you actually believe that we can feed their empty stomachs and their kids empty stomachs with "godliness with contentment"?
If they have no bed and no roof, can they sleep on bible scriptures and use the "the poverty Gospel" as their pillow?
Dont you understand that poverty has harmed more already then prosperity ever will?
So, i said, you have to use common sense along with all your spirituality, or you will end up too heavenly minded to be any earthly good at all.

Poverty only harms those who without faith are not trusting in the Lord as they do not know Him.
Poverty by whose standards, mans or Gods, as no one should go without shelter, food and clothing if we as being true servants of God are following that of Matthew 25:34-40. Hard times do fall on people as my husband and I can testify, but if they are truly trusting God like the widow in Mark 12:41-44 God will provide by using the faithful to help the destitute that are grateful for the help.

I may have nice things now, but it was trusting in the Lord that opened doors for my husband and I as we had to walk through that door so we could not only help ourselves, but to help others. Our society has become to money hungry to do any earthly good as they seemed blinded to the destitute or just give a man a fish, but will not teach them how to fish so they will not go without. If it wasn't for God sending others to help my husband and I years ago we would have been living on the streets, but now we can give back and bless others.

 

[brother Paul]

It is not about SEEKING poverty, that's absurd....the point was riches are not the goal...being rich is not what Christ was referring to when he spoke of the abundant life, One can be spiritually sound whether rich or poor, but the abundant life has nothing to do with big mansions and lear jets...

 

[Kidron]

I figure if someone is going to teach us Biblical tithing they can at least let us know if this is a year we consume our own tithe with rejoicing, or whether this is the third year in which we give it to those who depend on us for support.

-
If you will actually read every sentence in the last 2 posts i posted, you will understand that im not teaching tithing,
Im sharing some wisdom.... that..... to teach that "poverty is spirituality", or that "God wills us to be poor to be more like ________.". This type of nonsense, ......then you'll realize what im talking about.
See, Jesus was not sinless perfection because He was BROKE, ....He was sinless perfection because He is JESUS.
A lot of people dont grasp this reality.
Know any?

I brought up tithing, because how can we be expected to tithe if we are expected to be broke so that this suffering proves we are "spiritual".
= GRAPE-NUTZ ON LSD.....
So, to tithe, means we would need MONEY, and thats my point.
Trying to give 10% of what you dont have, is some nutty theological math that a lot of backwards self righteous people are trying to prove.
Money is GOOD, Prosperity is GREAT......and it only becomes filthy lucre to us, if our hearts are not right.
So, as i said......if you cant love God and have money, then you cant love God and be broke....as YOU are the issue, not the money or lack of it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I brought up tithing, because how can we be expected to tithe if we are expected to be broke so that this suffering proves we are "spiritual".

Why are you making the unfair assumption that poor people don't give?

What I detest about the prosperity gospel is those snared by it who look down from their ivory towers (literally) and brag about their 'spiritual' giving, little knowing that the giving they do from their abundance is no sacrifice at all. The widow in Luke 21:1-4 NIV was poor but she gave anyway, and Jesus counted her giving as being MORE than the rich people who gave out of their abundance.

If you want to talk about what spiritual giving is, that's actually what 'spiritual' giving really is. And when God gives you more, because you gave, give that away too. Why don't rich people give it all away like the widow did? Instead they stock pile it and take a convenient, non-sacrificial amount out to give to God, and then boast that they are the real 'spiritual' people. What a joke. I'm actually quite sick of the hypocrisy of the prosperity movement. Don't you want to be spiritual and commended by God like the poor widow? It seems not many prosperity gospel adherents want to be.

I confess......I thoroughly enjoy exposing false teachings.

 

[Kidron]

It is not about SEEKING poverty, that's absurd....the point was riches are not the goal...being rich is not what Christ was referring to when he spoke of the abundant life, One can be spiritually sound whether rich or poor, but the abundant life has nothing to do with big mansions and lear jets...

-
Im not a "prosperity gospel" advocate., but not for the same reason that most would hate it.
And, this is not because the "abundant life" that Jesus came to give is only a spiritual situation.
"life" is not just the spirit....It does include our earthly humanity.
ITs both.
So, to be abundantly blessed by Jesus, is not only to be redeemed from sin and given eternal life, but it is to also became directly connected to the Abrahamic covenant..
You should study this...
So, its all of this....."you are Christ's"...."Abrahams seed", "heirs according to the promise". = The Abundant life in Christt.
I'll bet your preacher or any that you know who will tell you that "abundant life" is "spiritual only", has a nice car, house, TV, all the goodies.
So, Study all that.....find out about this, and you'll see that your Salvation offers you more then just Heaven.

 

[Kidron]

Why are you making the unfair assumption that poor people don't give?

What I detest about the prosperity gospel is those snared by it who look down from their ivory towers (literally) and brag about their 'spiritual' giving, little knowing that the giving they do from their abundance is no sacrifice at all. The widow in Luke 21:1-4 NIV was poor but she gave anyway, and Jesus counted her giving as being MORE than the rich people who gave out of their abundance. That's actually what 'spiritual' giving really is. And when God gives you more give that away too. Why don't rich people give it all away like the widow did? Instead they stock pile it and take a convenient, non-sacrificial amount out to give to God, and then think they are the real 'spiritual' people. What a joke. I'm actually quite sick of the hypocrisy of the prosperity movement. Don't you want to be spiritual and commended by God like the poor widow?

I confess......I thoroughly enjoy exposing false teachings.

=
I never said that poor people dont give.
And saying that you expose false teaching, while misquoting me, is dishonest., doubly.
I would call you a liar, but a mod here will come running to save you and close the thread, so, i'll just tell you not to misquote me just to be deceptive.
Do you hear me?
Im not kidding.

So, what i said, is that if a person is teaching that being broke is to be spiritual, then how can God expect us to give MONEY that we dont have, because we are too spiritual to have it?
So, be careful how you twist my words, JB.
And if you read the post that I posted above yours that you just wrote, then you'll note that im not affiliated with the "prosperity gospel", but not for the same reason you hate it.

 

[brother Paul]

Kidron...I just do not see how you got "poverty is spirituality", or that "God wills us to be poor" out of the OP. The point was that materiality is not the essence of what Jesus was referring to. If you have it great! Share it. If you don't? By all means strive to gain (for family and others) but material riches and getting our own way are NOT what Jesus taught as any type of goal that has to do with being a Christian.

When I hear of the multibillions of valuables and money that the Vatican possesses and learn that all around them are starving masses they do little or nothing to help, I have to ask "Is this what Jesus would do?" The reverend Richard Blake takes a salary from his megachurch in south central LA of $900,000 dollars a year and lives in a huge mansion with servants and about 5 classy automobiles, a private jet, and so on and his flock is comprised of most who earn less than 30,000 per year and who's children often lack adequate clothing, medical care, and appropriate (of any) food...he guilts them all out of their money with an empty promise of 10 fold blessings financially...is the Spirit of Jesus in this man?

His relationship with God is between them but I think he should learn Matthew 25...

The post started because I met a woman who lives on Daystar, attends church, reads the word and prays...she has a really sharp apartment, nice clothes, a full belly, a good relationship, three wonderful children and a new grandbaby, but she does have a bad back...all she does is continuously wine and complain about "where is this abundant life Jesus promised, I do not see it"....she lives in her abusive past and is convinced by her favorite Pastor-Star Mike Murdoch that she must not have enough faith or else she needs to send him more money....is this man representing Jesus? Really?

Now this may or may not have been your point but do not misconstrue mine...many fine and sincere men and women of God have abundant earthly lives but the point was that attaining such is not the point of the message. If so all the Apostles would have lived in Castles with servants eating the fatted calf every day and none would ever have fallen ill.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So, what i said, is that if a person is teaching that being broke is to be spiritual...

And there's where your doctrine goes wrong right off the bat.
This isn't about being broke'. The prosperity gospel people call people not living in excess 'being broke'. But that is hardly what not lusting after the prosperity gospel means. It does not mean 'being broke'.

...then how can God expect us to give MONEY that we dont have, because we are too spiritual to have it?

He DOESN'T expect you to give money you don't have. That burden is not to be put on believers. For that teaching certainly does not come from the Bible:

"it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have." (2 Corinthians 8:12 NASB)

Spirituality in giving is measured by what you have, not by what you don't have. You are not more spiritual because you live in excess and give, no more than a 'poor' person is spiritual because they don't. That's why the widow gave MORE than the rich people in Luke 21:3-4 NASB). She's not more spiritual because she was poor. She's more spiritual because she gave more of what she had. I'm completely unimpressed by the boast of a 'rich' person (remember, these are relative terms) who gives 10% of his wealth. Big deal. That's not a sacrifice. But the 'rich' prosperity gospel people want to deceive you into thinking it is something great and that you should be 'spiritual' like them.

And if you read the post that I posted above yours that you just wrote, then you'll note that im not affiliated with the "prosperity gospel", but not for the same reason you hate it.

You are defending prosperity gospel doctrine. I will use this forum as the opportunity to expose it for what it really is.