Addiction is a disease

[stovebolts]

Okay, let's do this. You show me some recorded cases where people have become addicted to opiates without ever coming in contact with opiates. Can you do that?
.

what you've utterly failed to recognize is that addiction is about behavior and not being able to stop something you know that is harmful to yourself or others. essentially it's a lack of being able to rationalize emotional thoughts and put them in their proper perspective.
In short, if it wasn't opium they would simply be something else. you seem to think that opium is the problem it doesn't start there.

 

[jasonc]

Ha! you're too funny gary. And just exactly what would we do? would it be a contest to see who could be the biggest bull headed isst person?
what you've utterly failed to recognize is that addiction is about behavior and not being able to stop something you know that is harmful to yourself or others. essentially it's a lack of being able to rationalize emotional thoughts and put them in their proper perspective.
In short, if it wasn't opium they would simply be something else. you seem to think that opium is the problem it doesn't start there.

addictive personalities. yup I know a man whom I mentioned before who is that way.

 

[reba]

Guys are any of you absolutely sure of your view on this....Absolutely sure your view it the only truth..

Look at the disease diabetes.... for some they got that way by choices made some not..

Type 1 diabetes is an autoimmune disease - the person's body has destroyed his/her own insulin-producing beta cells in the pancreas.

The majority of people with Type 2 have developed the condition because they are overweight. Type 2 generally appears later on in life, compared to Type 1. Type 2 is the most common form of diabetes

There is much helpful information to be had through a discussion of this lets not ending working so hard to make ones point the thread gets closed..

 

[Malachi]

you seem to think that opium is the problem

it doesn't start there.

It starts with poppies, which are actually quite beautiful.

 

[reba]

This needs to cool off... closed for a bit

 

[reba]

Lets not have personal battles get in the way of a good but strong discussion...

 

[Chopper]

Hey Jeff (stove) for years I had a diseased filled lower spine. The pain specialists tried lots of remedies that only helped for a short time. I then had two operations on my spine that both failed. Now, due to the mess the surgeons made of my spine, there is nothing but morphine, 150mg a day to keep the pain down so I can function. 5 years later, I'm addicted. Disease? you bet, the morphine has created it own diseases in my mind and body. My reflexes, thinking processes, my speech, I'm dyslectic, I could go on but you get the point.

Disease brought on morphine, morphine created it's own disease in my body of which I have to take more med's to counter those diseases like vertigo.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Hey Jeff (stove) for years I had a diseased filled lower spine. The pain specialists tried lots of remedies that only helped for a short time. I then had two operations on my spine that both failed. Now, due to the mess the surgeons made of my spine, there is nothing but morphine, 150mg a day to keep the pain down so I can function. 5 years later, I'm addicted. Disease? you bet, the morphine has created it own diseases in my mind and body. My reflexes, thinking processes, my speech, I'm dyslectic, I could go on but you get the point.

Disease brought on morphine, morphine created it's own disease in my body of which I have to take more med's to counter those diseases like vertigo.

Early in the process my meds created Vertigo and when I could still walk I cursed it every time I fell. The necessary meds made me worse but now I am only on my feet to move from my chair to the bed or the car and to return to my chair. Often I,literally fall into the car, chairs, bed and my wheel chair. And young people want real life to be fair... good luck there.

God bless brother.

 

[stovebolts]

Hi Chopper,

I’m sorry to hear that you’ve had to endure so much physical pain. You’re a good man, and God has used you in so many ways. I’m thankful for our friendship. You’re my Barnabus J


You made a good point about having a disease, and then taking a substance that creates a new disease. I’m sorry you have to make the choices that you have to make, but it really goes toward something that we’ve been discussing in this thread, but I don’t think I ever articulated it very clear.

Substance Addiction has two parts to it. It has a physical and a mental factor to it. The physical end is very easy to describe. One repeatedly takes a substance and the body starts to depend on it. This can be anything from caffeine, cigarettes to Opiates and Amphetamines etc. Quitting a physical addiction is tough because the body will respond negatively when the substance isn’t available. It can be as minor as a headache and scale all the way up to severe flu like symptoms and in some cases, even death. Assuming one does not die from withdrawal, once withdrawal is complete, the body begins it’s healing process and your body is no longer dependent (addicted) upon the substance.

In the case of mental addiction, this can be broken into two layers. First is habit. If you do the same thing over and over, it becomes automatic. Have you ever been going somewhere and instead of turning left, you went straight because “That’s the way I go to work every day.” People who smoked will play with their fingers and put their fingers up to their mouth etc. Habits take about 3 weeks to break and after that, things get much easier with the occasional outside stimuli when you least expect it. Say that you always stood in the front of “this” door and smoked your cigarette every day. A year later, you could stand by that same door and get the urge to smoke. Habits are sometimes hard to shake.

Mental addiction falls into a completely different category and that’s what we call the disease. It’s not the physical addiction and it’s not the habitual traits. It’s a deficit of white matter in the prefrontal cortex (PFC) with a reduced density within the orbitofrontal cortex (OFC). The OFC is the seat of emotions and these emotions run through the PFC for filtering. As a brain develops, the PFC matures and takes a more active role in filtering emotions through rational thought. This is why a child has temper tantrums, and those tantrums reduce as they get older. (Hopefully ha ha) These two brain deficits are developed within the womb and / or occur when a child is in adolescence as a direct result from their environment. For example, if a pregnant mother is highly stressed, she releasing cortisone into the placenta, which is absorbed into the child’s bloodstream and will reduce both white matter in the PFC and density within the OFC. Other factors such as neglect, abuse or lack of adequate bonding or nurturing with also result in brain deficiencies. The book I’m reading describes this in great detail.

People who suffer from mental addiction termed here as a disease manifest their disfunction in many ways. It could play itself out as an excessive collector, the workaholic, the sex addict and yes, even the drug addict. For the mental addict, its’ more than just a physical withdrawal and it’s more than just shaking a habit. For the addict with the disease, it’s a way of life and learning healthy coping skills to redirect that energy into something positive with minimal negative backlash.

Another way the white matter in the PFC and density in the OFC is reduced is through sustained chemical dependency / abuse, like the morphine your taking all the way down to legal substances like tobacco and alcohol. These chemicals play an active role in deteriorating the PFC and reduction in mass including the OFC. Thus, a healthy mind can deteriorate into a diseased mind through sustained abuse.

 

[Chopper]

Hi Chopper,

I’m sorry to hear that you’ve had to endure so much physical pain. You’re a good man, and God has used you in so many ways. I’m thankful for our friendship. You’re my Barnabus J


You made a good point about having a disease, and then taking a substance that creates a new disease. I’m sorry you have to make the choices that you have to make, but it really goes toward something that we’ve been discussing in this thread, but I don’t think I ever articulated it very clear.

Substance Addiction has two parts to it. It has a physical and a mental factor to it. The physical end is very easy to describe. One repeatedly takes a substance and the body starts to depend on it. This can be anything from caffeine, cigarettes to Opiates and Amphetamines etc. Quitting a physical addiction is tough because the body will respond negatively when the substance isn’t available. It can be as minor as a headache and scale all the way up to severe flu like symptoms and in some cases, even death. Assuming one does not die from withdrawal, once withdrawal is complete, the body begins it’s healing process and your body is no longer dependent (addicted) upon the substance.

In the case of mental addiction, this can be broken into two layers. First is habit. If you do the same thing over and over, it becomes automatic. Have you ever been going somewhere and instead of turning left, you went straight because “That’s the way I go to work every day.” People who smoked will play with their fingers and put their fingers up to their mouth etc. Habits take about 3 weeks to break and after that, things get much easier with the occasional outside stimuli when you least expect it. Say that you always stood in the front of “this” door and smoked your cigarette every day. A year later, you could stand by that same door and get the urge to smoke. Habits are sometimes hard to shake.

Mental addiction falls into a completely different category and that’s what we call the disease. It’s not the physical addiction and it’s not the habitual traits. It’s a deficit of white matter in the prefrontal cortex (PFC) with a reduced density within the orbitofrontal cortex (OFC). The OFC is the seat of emotions and these emotions run through the PFC for filtering. As a brain develops, the PFC matures and takes a more active role in filtering emotions through rational thought. This is why a child has temper tantrums, and those tantrums reduce as they get older. (Hopefully ha ha) These two brain deficits are developed within the womb and / or occur when a child is in adolescence as a direct result from their environment. For example, if a pregnant mother is highly stressed, she releasing cortisone into the placenta, which is absorbed into the child’s bloodstream and will reduce both white matter in the PFC and density within the OFC. Other factors such as neglect, abuse or lack of adequate bonding or nurturing with also result in brain deficiencies. The book I’m reading describes this in great detail.

People who suffer from mental addiction termed here as a disease manifest their disfunction in many ways. It could play itself out as an excessive collector, the workaholic, the sex addict and yes, even the drug addict. For the mental addict, its’ more than just a physical withdrawal and it’s more than just shaking a habit. For the addict with the disease, it’s a way of life and learning healthy coping skills to redirect that energy into something positive with minimal negative backlash.

Another way the white matter in the PFC and density in the OFC is reduced is through sustained chemical dependency / abuse, like the morphine your taking all the way down to legal substances like tobacco and alcohol. These chemicals play an active role in deteriorating the PFC and reduction in mass including the OFC. Thus, a healthy mind can deteriorate into a diseased mind through sustained abuse.

Thank you for your findings. Wow, you have certainly become very knowledgeable in this whole disease/addiction process. Once I started taking the morphine, I could see that I was in store for some mental deficiencies. I had a lot of trouble judging distance from an object. At the time of taking morphine, I was a heavy equipment operator. I was operating a front end loader and almost ran into a parked truck because I couldn't judge how far it was from me. I had never had vertigo, but after about a month on morphine, I started loosing my balance. It got so bad that in a supermarket, I would weave back and forth like a drunk man. Last year I fell over, 7 times, once riding my bicycle and cracked ribs. On two other falls I cracked ribs as well. Disease? Yep, my doctor has tried med's and therapy but nothing helps.

Keep up the good work. Don't pay any attention to those who refuse to say that drug use is not a disease, we know different my friend!

 

[stovebolts]

Thank you for your findings. Wow, you have certainly become very knowledgeable in this whole disease/addiction process. Once I started taking the morphine, I could see that I was in store for some mental deficiencies. I had a lot of trouble judging distance from an object. At the time of taking morphine, I was a heavy equipment operator. I was operating a front end loader and almost ran into a parked truck because I couldn't judge how far it was from me. I had never had vertigo, but after about a month on morphine, I started loosing my balance. It got so bad that in a supermarket, I would weave back and forth like a drunk man. Last year I fell over, 7 times, once riding my bicycle and cracked ribs. On two other falls I cracked ribs as well. Disease? Yep, my doctor has tried med's and therapy but nothing helps.

Keep up the good work. Don't pay any attention to those who refuse to say that drug use is not a disease, we know different my friend!

Chopper, your such a trooper. Your always so inspirational and building people up. Its a trait I wish I could sustain. And I had no idea you suffered the way you do each day. I am humbled beyond words and God continues to shine through you.
Love you brother.

 

[Christ_empowered]

yeah...I'm still torn on addiction being behavioral vs disease, but...something's going on. I mean, people are ending up in the ER and dying, so...yeah. Its a problem, obviously.

The only thing I can relate to is when I was a goof baller (mix of high dose Rx amphetamines w high dose Rx benzodiazepines...then Rx sleeping pills at night). I know, so 1960s, lol. Anyway, it was hard to quit, especially since the (private, for profit) place made my life a living Hell, but...

...I didn't abuse drugs again, lol. Of course, Rx amphetamines can be surprisingly easy to quit, compared to other drugs. Benzos are a little trickier, because there's usually an underlying anxiety disorder, and then you mess up your GABA receptors. The combination...not good, lol.

I just wonder if giving the medical establishment still more power over peoples' lives is the answer. I was thoroughly abused at mental hospitals both times I was hospitalized, so I'm more than a little bit biased in all this. Also, I'm concerned that this whole anti-addiction thing might make pain management inaccessible to a lot of people, which would be unfortunate. And...all this attention now being paid (again) to benzo abuse, same thing. I mean, benzos aren't ideal, but some people need some Klonopin or Xanax or whatever.

Ramble ramble...I'm just thinking out loud.

 

[Chopper]

Chopper, your such a trooper. Your always so inspirational and building people up. Its a trait I wish I could sustain. And I had no idea you suffered the way you do each day. I am humbled beyond words and God continues to shine through you.
Love you brother.

Thank you for those nice words. I know that I don't have to tell you, but if it wasn't for Jesus, I would have trouble getting thru it all.

 

[stovebolts]

yeah...I'm still torn on addiction being behavioral vs disease, but...something's going on. I mean, people are ending up in the ER and dying, so...yeah. Its a problem, obviously.

The only thing I can relate to is when I was a goof baller (mix of high dose Rx amphetamines w high dose Rx benzodiazepines...then Rx sleeping pills at night). I know, so 1960s, lol. Anyway, it was hard to quit, especially since the (private, for profit) place made my life a living Hell, but...

...I didn't abuse drugs again, lol. Of course, Rx amphetamines can be surprisingly easy to quit, compared to other drugs. Benzos are a little trickier, because there's usually an underlying anxiety disorder, and then you mess up your GABA receptors. The combination...not good, lol.

I just wonder if giving the medical establishment still more power over peoples' lives is the answer. I was thoroughly abused at mental hospitals both times I was hospitalized, so I'm more than a little bit biased in all this. Also, I'm concerned that this whole anti-addiction thing might make pain management inaccessible to a lot of people, which would be unfortunate. And...all this attention now being paid (again) to benzo abuse, same thing. I mean, benzos aren't ideal, but some people need some Klonopin or Xanax or whatever.

Ramble ramble...I'm just thinking out loud.

I hear ya brother. I really do. My Mom got shock treatment twice and lived her life on psychotropics. My older brother is bipolar so I get what your saying.

You hit on the prescription drug problem and in reality, you don't have to be an addict to die from them. Zanex, benzo's etc have their rightful place, but we need tighter accountability. Example: my brother had his teeth worked on. They gave him a script for 40 benzos. He went home, took a Tylenol and sold the lot before dinner time.

I like a part of Obamacare that electronically tracts a patient and their scripts. I believe this will help.

I also think we need education. People think if its in Grandmas cupboard, or the Dr. Prescribed it, then it must be safe. Kids go to a party and take pills while getting drunk. They "pass out" and never wake up. When we go into schools, we teach this. We teach if somebody is passed out, they will move if you shake them. If they don't move, call an ambulance. The gal who teaches this lost her son the very same way.

 

[stovebolts]

Thank you for those nice words. I know that I don't have to tell you, but if it wasn't for Jesus, I would have trouble getting thru it all.

They are more than nice words brother. I have a better understanding of the place which you write from. I admire that. God has done great things in your life, and I'm thankful for that.

 

[Chopper]

They are more than nice words brother. I have a better understanding of the place which you write from. I admire that. God has done great things in your life, and I'm thankful for that.

O my friend, when I saw some of the crap that you were going thru, I said to myself, "self, you're doing better than poor Jeff." I guess when we see the suffering someone else is going thru, it causes us to forget our own troubles and pray for the other fellow.

I have been so very much encouraged since I've seen you rise above your trials. You are my hero my friend and I honor you with a great respect.

 

[stovebolts]

O my friend, when I saw some of the crap that you were going thru, I said to myself, "self, you're doing better than poor Jeff." I guess when we see the suffering someone else is going thru, it causes us to forget our own troubles and pray for the other fellow.

I have been so very much encouraged since I've seen you rise above your trials. You are my hero my friend and I honor you with a great respect.

I don't think I would have made it if it wasn't for people like you as well as a few others on this board and my church family and my wife.

 

[jasonc]

Hi Chopper,

I’m sorry to hear that you’ve had to endure so much physical pain. You’re a good man, and God has used you in so many ways. I’m thankful for our friendship. You’re my Barnabus J


You made a good point about having a disease, and then taking a substance that creates a new disease. I’m sorry you have to make the choices that you have to make, but it really goes toward something that we’ve been discussing in this thread, but I don’t think I ever articulated it very clear.

Substance Addiction has two parts to it. It has a physical and a mental factor to it. The physical end is very easy to describe. One repeatedly takes a substance and the body starts to depend on it. This can be anything from caffeine, cigarettes to Opiates and Amphetamines etc. Quitting a physical addiction is tough because the body will respond negatively when the substance isn’t available. It can be as minor as a headache and scale all the way up to severe flu like symptoms and in some cases, even death. Assuming one does not die from withdrawal, once withdrawal is complete, the body begins it’s healing process and your body is no longer dependent (addicted) upon the substance.

In the case of mental addiction, this can be broken into two layers. First is habit. If you do the same thing over and over, it becomes automatic. Have you ever been going somewhere and instead of turning left, you went straight because “That’s the way I go to work every day.” People who smoked will play with their fingers and put their fingers up to their mouth etc. Habits take about 3 weeks to break and after that, things get much easier with the occasional outside stimuli when you least expect it. Say that you always stood in the front of “this” door and smoked your cigarette every day. A year later, you could stand by that same door and get the urge to smoke. Habits are sometimes hard to shake.

Mental addiction falls into a completely different category and that’s what we call the disease. It’s not the physical addiction and it’s not the habitual traits. It’s a deficit of white matter in the prefrontal cortex (PFC) with a reduced density within the orbitofrontal cortex (OFC). The OFC is the seat of emotions and these emotions run through the PFC for filtering. As a brain develops, the PFC matures and takes a more active role in filtering emotions through rational thought. This is why a child has temper tantrums, and those tantrums reduce as they get older. (Hopefully ha ha) These two brain deficits are developed within the womb and / or occur when a child is in adolescence as a direct result from their environment. For example, if a pregnant mother is highly stressed, she releasing cortisone into the placenta, which is absorbed into the child’s bloodstream and will reduce both white matter in the PFC and density within the OFC. Other factors such as neglect, abuse or lack of adequate bonding or nurturing with also result in brain deficiencies. The book I’m reading describes this in great detail.

People who suffer from mental addiction termed here as a disease manifest their disfunction in many ways. It could play itself out as an excessive collector, the workaholic, the sex addict and yes, even the drug addict. For the mental addict, its’ more than just a physical withdrawal and it’s more than just shaking a habit. For the addict with the disease, it’s a way of life and learning healthy coping skills to redirect that energy into something positive with minimal negative backlash.

Another way the white matter in the PFC and density in the OFC is reduced is through sustained chemical dependency / abuse, like the morphine your taking all the way down to legal substances like tobacco and alcohol. These chemicals play an active role in deteriorating the PFC and reduction in mass including the OFC. Thus, a healthy mind can deteriorate into a diseased mind through sustained abuse.

just so you know . the whole time you and I were talking the gist of this. Nathan was listening in my truck and did ask what started this and also who you were. I think he got to hear the story of someone who is there and while at present I haven't heard him say I want to smoke pot or use drugs, he cant say he hasn't heard a testimony.

 

[jeff77]

Just started reading "In The Realm of Hungry Ghosts". The book in the OP.

 

[stovebolts]

Just started reading "In The Realm of Hungry Ghosts". The book in the OP.

I have just under 100 pages left.
I found an unexpected jewel on the last page of chapter 23.