After death, what then?

[WIP]

Enoch, Moses, Abraham and Elijah were not taken up to the third Heaven as some teach as when they were seen (not Enoch or Abraham) of Peter, James and John in Matthew 17:1-9 it was only a transfiguration like a vision that they saw Jesus transfigured as was Moses and Elijah. There is no one in the third heaven except God, Jesus and the angels, John 3:13. Everyone that has ever died is asleep in their grave and when Christ returns they will hear His voice as He calls all of them to come forth, they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation, John 5:28, 29. It is only our spirit/breath/soul that goes back to God who gave it, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7.

What about all those that were risen from the grave when Jesus arose?

Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many. Matthew 27:51-53 NKJV

 

[civilwarbuff]

asleep in the grave

If you are speaking of 'soul sleep' Christian doctrine does not support that position. If we sleep until resurrection or judgement then what John recorded in heaven is incorrect:
Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne.
Rev 6:10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
Rev 6:11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

 

[for_his_glory]

What about all those that were risen from the grave when Jesus arose?

Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many. Matthew 27:51-53 NKJV

Many only assume and speculate they went up to heaven, but that is not what scripture says. They were raised and then went into the city as they appeared to many. This could be a testimony to others of Christ power still working even though He himself was raised to Heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father. It's much like Lazarus was also a testimony of Christ power even while He was on Earth.

 

[for_his_glory]

If you are speaking of 'soul sleep' Christian doctrine does not support that position. If we sleep until resurrection or judgement then what John recorded in heaven is incorrect:
Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne.
Rev 6:10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
Rev 6:11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

No I am not talking about soul sleep as I do not believe in mans made up doctrines. What John was seeing under the alter was not literal, but symbolic of the breath of those souls who had died a martyr's death crying out for vengeance as we all cry out for the Lord's return.

The resurrection of the dead has not happened yet as it is only our breath/spirit that returns back to God who gave it when this physical body returns to the dust of the ground from where it came from, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Alright guys, does it really matter when we're going to Heaven? I think the most important thing is because of Jesus Christ dying for us on the cross for our sins is that we get to go. As I stated before, God did not write the Bible. Men wrote the Bible on His behalf. Everyone knows that we're all humans and we all make mistakes, so isn't there least a possibility that somebody somewhere along the line screwed up and got some of the information written down in the Bible wrong? Like I said, only God really truly knows who gets to go to Heaven and when.

 

[Eugene]

So after death what happens? Judgement follows? Some believe that we all shall wait, and when the SON returns, the dead shall rise first, and then the living shall join in the departure: then judgement takes place.

Ephesians 4:9 (Now that he (Jesus) ascended, what is it but that He also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Again just to clarify where we are; Jesus died and took the thief that day to paradise which was in the lower parts of the earth; it was called Abraham's bosom.
Jesus was there for three days and three nights and according to 1 Peter 3:19-20 By which also He (Jesus) went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

After that we read in Ephesians 4:8 When He ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Jesus led those that were in Paradise to heaven when He ascended for we read in 2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he (Paul) was caught up into paradise instead of paradise still being in the lower parts of the earth.

And some believe that those who are already judged are in heaven or hell.

There are two judgments; the judgment seat of Christ which is occurring at this very moment for all believers that are alive as they walk in Christ; the report is in Revelation chapters two and three. We could end up as the church in Smyrna with a crown for having remained faithful unto death (Rev 2:10), or as those in the church in Thyatira that are told to repent of or be thrown into great tribulation (Rev 2:22).

There remains the Great White Throne Judgment of the dead (Those not in the book of life we read of in Rev 20:11-15. Earlier these same ones reserved unto judgment were caught away just prior to the millennium (1000 year reign of Christ) to later be judged we read of in Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
We also read in Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. This is a physical being saved to enter God's kingdom age when all Israel shall be saved.

If this doesn't align which what you've been taught, DON'T WORRY BOUT IT.

 

[ezra]

i only did a quick google search on when we face judgement . it does appear for the lost maybe at the very end .i can only go by finial judgement . there is no way at this point and time i can prove a time frame. but in my search of when i found nothing only the difference between the 2 judgments... i will try to do another search when i get back

 

[ezra]

Alright guys, does it really matter when we're going to Heaven?

to be honest not really

 

[for_his_glory]

Alright guys, does it really matter when we're going to Heaven? I think the most important thing is because of Jesus Christ dying for us on the cross for our sins is that we get to go. As I stated before, God did not write the Bible. Men wrote the Bible on His behalf. Everyone knows that we're all humans and we all make mistakes, so isn't there least a possibility that somebody somewhere along the line screwed up and got some of the information written down in the Bible wrong? Like I said, only God really truly knows who gets to go to Heaven and when.

Each letter (book and chapter) of the Bible is mans witness and testimony of Christ for what they heard Him teach and were instructed to take those teachings of the Gospel out to the word as they were anointed by Gods Holy Spirit to do so. Our carnal thinking does not override that of what Christ has already taught us as all have sinned and fallen short of His glory. If we are not Spiritually born again then we will not see the kingdom of God. If we confess with our mouth and believe in our heart that God raised Jesus from the dead we will be saved and have eternal life with the Father. If we have not Christ in us then we are none of His no matter how good a person we think we are.
John 3:3-6; Romans 10:9, 10; John 3:16; John 3:35, 36; Romans 8:6-9

 

[WIP]

Everyone knows that we're all humans and we all make mistakes, so isn't there least a possibility that somebody somewhere along the line screwed up and got some of the information written down in the Bible wrong?

Here's the concern with a statement like this. Nearly everything we know about God comes from the Bible. If we discover even one mistake, then how can we trust the rest of the Bible to be true? And how then can this following verse be trustworthy?

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 NKJV

 

[th1b.taylor]

Many teach that of 2 Corinthians 5:8 that it means we are literally with the Lord as soon as we leave this body, but that is not what it says.

Let me break each verse down from vs. 1-8 so you can understand the full context of what is being said.
2 Corinthians 5:1-8
vs. 1 is speaking about the tabernacle of God that is within us as we are the Temple of God, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 17, and when we physically die we will have eternal life with Him in the New Jerusalem

vs. 2 we desire to be in our new home, the New Jerusalem, that will be ushered down from heaven at the end of days, Rev 21

vs. 3 we are clothed in Gods righteousness as we will not be found naked, Isaiah 61:10

vs. 4 We are the Temple of God, but yet we do have burdens as we still live in this fleshly body waiting for immortality when Christ returns, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54

vs. 5 basic as we have Gods Spirit dwelling in us as we need to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh

vs. 6 we are confident knowing that if we are walking in the flesh we are absent from God because flesh and Spirit can not mix, Galatians 5:17

vs. 7 we walk by faith, which is Christ Jesus as we seek those things from above and not the things of this world, Colossians 3:1-4

vs. 8 we are confident if we are walking in the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) we are no longer following the lust of the flesh, 1 John 2:16

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this but that is where I stand. From the scriptures you posted and it has long been my contention that the Mission Jesus was on was and is exactly what He said it was/is. Jesus came to restore the lost. Luke 19:10 For the Son of Man came to find and restore the lost.

Who and or what was lost? We know that Adam,by His action of following his wife into sin caused every man,save one, to be born removed from the presence of God the Father. (see Genesis 3) Before that fall, if we pay close attention when we read carefully and critically we see God/Jesus pretending He didn't know what had happened and did not know where they were hiding. We know and if we have studied the scriptures we know that a man, any man, lost or saved cannot even think a thing but that God knows it before you think it, He knew what they had done and where they were located.

i take the Word as literal except where it obvious that it is a parable or a metaphor and if, after the Resurrection, the coverts that turn from the Beast to God are slaughtered and are immediately their spirits are in the presence of God, why should any not consider the same is not true of the Saints of the LORD? Even Paul, in Philippians 1:21 that to live is Christ and to die is gain.
what gain is there if we are not in the presence of the Spirit, God, spiritually?

I know some talk about Soul Sleep

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Well,.. let me ask you a question. Does everything you belive have to be analyzed? The Bible states that no human (except for Jesus Christ) is perfect. There's a pretty good chance some minor mistakes were made. I'm a Christian because I belive it in my heart, not because a book tells me to. Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing the Bible one bit. I believe it to be the greatest story ever told and a story of hope. But if the Bible told you to wear a monkey on your head would you? Without any explanation at all. Would you just do it because it's in the Bible, or would you follow your beliefs?

 

[Jim Parker]

I believe it to be the greatest story ever told and a story of hope.

It's not a "story."
It is either God's self-revelation of His love for man and His desire that we have eternal life in His kingdom.
If it's not then it's a fairy tale and we have no hope. If it's not then all we get is; "Life is hard and then you die."

But if the Bible told you to wear a monkey on your head would you?

That's an illogical question. (An absurdity) We know exactly what the Bible tells us to do.
(1) Love one another. (Jhn 13:34;[URL='https://www.blueletterbible.org/rsv/jhn/15/12/s_1012012']15:12; [URL='https://www.blueletterbible.org/rsv/jhn/15/17/s_1012017']15:17)[/URL][/URL]
And
(2) Mat 28:19-20a Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; (He commanded them to love one another)

Without any explanation at all. Would you just do it because it's in the Bible, or would you follow your beliefs?

The word for "my own beliefs" is "heresy."

You appraisal of the importance of the Bible in you relationship to God and the hope He offers appears to me (what do I know?) to be subordinate to your faith in your own personal opinions.

iaskov the fool

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

I didn't mean it exactly like that. I just meant that your choice to serve God is simply that, a choice. The Bible (even though it was written in there) didn't make me decide to serve the Lord and follow The Ten Commandments I did. My point was that the Bible is a book when all is said and done, and just like other books have errors now and then I belive that the Bible might too and some stuff in it just doesn't make sense to me and so I'm going to follow what I believe in my heart to be true.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Would you just do it because it's in the Bible, or would you follow your beliefs?

Let me ask you this: Do you have any beliefs that not found in the Bible? If so, then where did they come from?

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Well,.. sort of. I believe in the Bible for the most part, but I believe that a caring, loving God wouldn't send somebody to Hell if they had a different religion or belife. Simply because, I believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. And unless they are pure evil, then I believe that they will go to Heaven. I don't like forcing my beliefs on anyone, but it seems like since I've got here, everyone has tried to force their beliefs on me.

 

[JoChris]

Well,.. sort of. I believe in the Bible for the most part, but I believe that a caring, loving God wouldn't send somebody to Hell if they had a different religion or belife. Simply because, I believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. And unless they are pure evil, then I believe that they will go to Heaven. I don't like forcing my beliefs on anyone, but it seems like since I've got here, everyone has tried to force their beliefs on me.

From what I have seen here so far the vast majority of contributors merely saying what (they believe) the bible says.

Several verses to consider:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+27:5-6&version=KJV
Christians should put truth first if they really love their neighbour as God commands.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14:6&version=KJV
Jesus said ONLY way to God is through Him. Therefore no other ways lead to salvation.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians+2:8&version=KJV
Going on your comment you are thinking too much like the unsaved world wants it to be. God saying to non-Christians something like "near enough is good enough, pass conceded if you haven't been a war criminal or mass murderer etc".
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7:13-14+&version=KJV
If the path to salvation is a narrow road then many will not be saved. Most people want the easy, wide road of doing things their way, not Christ's way.

 

[Douglas Summers]

We have varying opinions on this subject, really.

So after death what happens? Judgement follows? Some believe that we all shall wait, and when the SON returns, the dead shall rise first, and then the living shall join in the departure: then judgement takes place.

So which is the biblical procedure?

It all depends on who you believe. The Bible does not contradict itself. The saved shall never see death, yes, the body will return to the earth, (Ecclesiastes 12:7) but the Spirit of the saved will be with the Lord till we receive our new body (Rom. 8:22-24) (2 Cor. 5:1-10) (John 8:51) (John 11:21-27) This is what I believe.
In my savior and yours
Douglas Summers

 

[ezra]

Well,.. sort of. I believe in the Bible for the most part, but I believe that a caring, loving God wouldn't send somebody to Hell if they had a different religion or belife. Simply because, I believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. And unless they are pure evil, then I believe that they will go to Heaven. I don't like forcing my beliefs on anyone, but it seems like since I've got here, everyone has tried to force their beliefs on me.

this is not a good statement the Bible is our guidelines jesus said we must be born again that is not religion . there is nothing wrong with belief provided it lines up with scripture when jesus said i am the way truth and life and no man comes to the father but by him.. . then any thing out side that is false belief granted we all do believe different . but jesus way truth life we all agree on..

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Yes, finally. Something that we all can agree upon. (that last sentence)