Allah is not the God of Abraham

[Yaqub]

Christianity is a most interesting religion. No other in the entire world spends so much energy in trying to disprove "competing" religions. What is the reason for this I wonder. Judaism does not care what we Muslims believe or why. Neither does Hinduism, nor Shintoism, nor Wiccan nor any other religion. It is only the Christians who seem to care so much.

Do they think that when they convince us that our religion is "wrong" that we will come begging on our knees to be allowed to become Christians? Exactly why do they concern themselves so much. There must be a reason.

In this thread they pretend to know more about Islam than we Muslims do. How this could make any sense is, quite frankly, beyond me. The "name" of God is the issue here. Guess what guys. We Muslims do not assign a "name" to God. We simply call God "God". In Arabic "god" is "allah". That word is not a name but only a word which means "god". It could be used to refer to any god. In the case of Islam though it refers to the same god of the Christians. You guys might be interested to know that the language that Jesus spoke was Aramaic. In this language the word for "god" is "alla". This means that when Jesus said the name of god in His own language He enunciated "Alla".

Yeah sure, Allah means this or that or something else. Trouble is that there is no Christian who is qualified to do anything else except to quote things from the Bible. Here's the deal. Be nice to Muslims. We don't try to make Christianity seem false. We don't bother you about your beliefs so lay off of ours.

If you are going to devote yourselves to tearing us down in this "christian" site be good enough to be at least a little intellectual about it. And remember that "Christians" are not supposed to judge others.

"Judge not, lest ye be judged...." Jesus Pay attention to your own brothers and leave us be.

Yaqub

 

[JudaicChristian]

And so the bottom line is this: Since Allah was worshipped as a Pagan god before the days of Islam, then how can he be the God of Abraham? :o

 

[suhaiil]

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There are two facts that the word"Allah" refers to the God of Abraham. Historical Facts and the Present Facts.

Historical Facts: (Reproduced from my previous post)

In 7th century, All the descendants of Abraham, living in modern Israel and Arabia, knew the personal name of God: Allah. Before Islam (7th century), descendants of Ishmael were using this name.Jews of Medina (descendants of Isaac) were using the word Allah for God. The Christians of Nazareth also spoke the word Allah for God.

Current Facts: (Ref: Wikipedia)

Arabia
Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word "Allah" to mean "Godâ€. The Christian Arabs of today have no other word for 'God' than 'Allah'.(Even the Arabic-descended Maltese language of Malta, whose population is almost entirely Roman Catholic, uses Alla for 'God'.) Arab Christians for example use terms All?h al-ab (meaning God the Father, All?h al-ibn mean God the Son, and All?h al-r? al-quds (meaning God the Holy Spirit ).

Indonesia and Malaysia
Christians in Indonesia and Malaysia also use Allah to refer to God in the Malay language and Indonesian Language

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Now my question to mdo757 is:

If Allah is not the God of Abraham, are Christians of Arabian and Indonesian origins worshiping the god of pagans?

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[Yaqub]

And so the bottom line is this: Since Allah was worshipped as a Pagan god before the days of Islam, then how can he be the God of Abraham? :o[/quot

In school did you ever learn the difference between a common noun and a proper noun? Hummm?

 

[Pard]

Christianity is a most interesting religion. No other in the entire world spends so much energy in trying to disprove "competing" religions. What is the reason for this I wonder.

I was gonna give you a serious answer till I saw this at the end.

"Judge not, lest ye be judged...." Jesus Pay attention to your own brothers and leave us be.

Then I lol'd!

Read the Gospel, you will see we are instructed by Jesus to spread the message of salvation and to shed light on false religions, like islam, hinduism, and that wicca thingy.

Sushiil, um... Allah is not God's personal name. We have concluded that already. Even Muslims have backed me on this one.

Also, Allah means God in Arabic, nothing else... Allah is Arabic for God, just like Deus is God in Latin...

 

[JudaicChristian]

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There are two facts that the word"Allah" refers to the God of Abraham. Historical Facts and the Present Facts.

Historical Facts: (Reproduced from my previous post)

In 7th century, All the descendants of Abraham, living in modern Israel and Arabia, knew the personal name of God: Allah. Before Islam (7th century), descendants of Ishmael were using this name.Jews of Medina (descendants of Isaac) were using the word Allah for God. The Christians of Nazareth also spoke the word Allah for God.

Current Facts: (Ref: Wikipedia)

Arabia
Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word "Allah" to mean "Godâ€. The Christian Arabs of today have no other word for 'God' than 'Allah'.(Even the Arabic-descended Maltese language of Malta, whose population is almost entirely Roman Catholic, uses Alla for 'God'.) Arab Christians for example use terms All?h al-ab (meaning God the Father, All?h al-ibn mean God the Son, and All?h al-r? al-quds (meaning God the Holy Spirit ).

Indonesia and Malaysia
Christians in Indonesia and Malaysia also use Allah to refer to God in the Malay language and Indonesian Language

------------------------------------------

Now my question to mdo757 is:

If Allah is not the God of Abraham, are Christians of Arabian and Indonesian origins worshiping the god of pagans?

When the lead ram goes over a cliff, the sheep also follow. If you had read what I posted, then you would have seen that the Arabs at one time did know the God of Abraham as Yahwah. Making a lie your truth does not make the error go away. If I call Satan the god of Abraham, that does not make it true. Mohammad said, you already believe that Allah is a god, why not believe he is the only god. Mohammad did not know the name of the God of Abraham.

 

[JudaicChristian]

No one doubts that Muslims mean to worship the God of Abraham, but Allah is not his name. What ever happened to [ IL or il ] meaning God, or god in Aramaic or Arabic?

 

[Yaqub]

Read the Gospel, you will see we are instructed by Jesus to spread the message of salvation and to shed light on false religions, like islam, hinduism, and that wicca thingy.


Jesus would never tell people to "shed light on false religions". And, regarding the gospels I regard the sermon on the mount as being the definitive Christian doctrine. Perhaps we should review what Jesus told the crowds then? It was all about giving, kindness, humility but nothing about telling others that their religion sucked.

Would you tell me please exactly what kind of Christian you are? I mean what denomination. I would like to go and listen to a preacher who approves of the things that you say. Frankly I don't believe that from the pulpit one would hear such things as some of you declare. Most Christians are kind hearted and considerate of the feelings of others.

May the Blessings of Allah and Jesus be with us all,

Yaqub

 

[JudaicChristian]

Yaqub, his argument is pretty weak, but used all the time by christians.

The thing is alot of christians (including myself before I converted) do not subscribe to this argument, the saw the Movie "The Passion of The Christ" and saw Jesus saying "Allah" the aramaic word for the general term of "The God".

there is no reasoning with mdo and ahlui, if you present a sound refutation, they will claim you are using taqqiyah and declare themselves triumphant.

There are plenty of truth seekers here who actually want to know our oppinions on things.

The more you post here, the more this thread gets viewed, let it die out and fade away, its about freekin time it does.

You saw it in a movie! How lame. This is the bottom line, Muslims have been lied to. People who are politically correct are dishonest people. The term "The Lord" in our bibles is not God's personal name, and Allah has always been a Pagan god. You are the most dishonest person I have ever talked to.

 

[JudaicChristian]

What ever happened to [ IL or il ] meaning God, or god in Aramaic or Arabic?

Matthew 27:46
About the ninth hour [Jesus / Yahshua] cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Mark 15:34
And at the ninth hour [Jesus / Yahshua] cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Il in Aramaic means God.
El in Hebrew means God.

I have to wonder if Arabic speaking people are using a translator that is translating every different term as Allah.

 

[Pard]

Yaqub,

Titus 1:13:

This testimony is true. For which cause reprove(G1651) them sharply(G664), that they may be sound in the faith

An quote from Gill's Expository regarding this line:

cut them to the quick, and spare them not; deal not with them as Eli with his sons, 1Sa_2:23 but speak out, and expose their crimes, severely reprove them, that others may fear

And because you do not realize Jesus did in fact command us, His last order before ascension, to go among the people of this world and convert them:

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Perhaps you have never been to a church when they speak on Islam, or you have never asked a pastor about Islam. Unless they are U.U.'s they will agree that Muslims must be "cut to the quick", just like all others. You will find that most pastors are not politically correct, meaning they are not going to coddle Islam like so many people do. Though there is a difference between being rude and being respectful, and of course they would be as respectful as they can.

I am finding that you draw conclusions of people very quickly. You are stereotyping people, like me, and I do not like that. I have not once done the same to you, and yet you do so to me. Trust me, I could easily stereotype you, but I won't. So, how about you calm yourself and realize you are on a Christian forum.

 

[stovebolts]

Our bibles which were written long before the Quran was written say something different. The bible says that Abraham knew God as Elohiym. It was Moses whom God made known His personal name as Yahwah. God has many name titles, but Yahwah is His personal name. The spelling of Yahwah is based upon the fact that the ancient Semitic did not use the letter "E" as a vowel. If you would have read about the Moabite Stone, then you would have seen that the Arabs knew the God of Abraham as Yahwah.

I need to correct myself. Abraham did not know God as Elohiym, but "God Almighty."
Exodus 6:1-3. Then Yahwah said to Moses, "Now you will see what I will do to Pharaoh: Because of my mighty hand he will let them go; because of my mighty hand he will drive them out of his land."
2. Elohiym said to Moses, "I’m Yahwah. 3. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as [IL/God Almighty], but by my name Yahwah I did not make known to them.

Hi mdo757.

Short and sweet. Both El and Elohim were used in representing the head of the pantheon in many ancient near eastern texts, mainly Sumeria where as El is singular denoting self and Elohim plural denoting leader of the lessor gods. With this attribute of Elohim carries divine authority as creator and sustainer of life throughout the Ancient Near eastern religions. Please see the Biblical history and archelology forum for examles which btw predate any hebrewic texts.

That being said, God Almighty in the above Hebrew text is actually El Shaddai which takes the form of the hebrew letters Aleph and the Lamed. Aleph is reprented of the Ox and signifies strength, while the Lamed represents the shepherds staff and signifies authority, leading, protecting. Thus, El Shaddai in it's simplist form simply means the Mighty Shepherd.

As we know, Abram was called out of Sumeria, so we know that the Ancients knew of Elohim, yet they distorted him.

That also being said, Abram did know of Elohim's attibute denoted in yud hey vav hey (YHVH), but had only experienced El Shaddai through the promise made to Abram in regard to YHVH's covenant with Abram (Genesis 15). This promise was revealed through the Isrealites upon their Exodus from bondage in Egypt and thus by way of YHVH, the people would be in relation with Elohim El Shaddai.

YHVH is more than a name, it's God revealing, and making himself known both to his chosen people whome he called his very son (Exodus 4:22), through His promise to Abram who was called friend (Isa 41:8). But God does this for a purpose, and that purpose was for his son (Israel) to be a light to the nations, to seek that which was lost.
Deut: 4:6 So be sure to do them, because this will testify of your wise understanding to the people who will learn of all these statutes and say, “Indeed, this great nation is a very wise people.†4:7 In fact, what other great nation has a god so near to them like the Lord our God whenever we call on him? 4:8 And what other great nation has statutes and ordinances as just as this whole law that I am about to share with you today?

YHVH was not made known to Abram, nor was he made known to the Moabites, though both knew of YHVH, yet neither had known Him. YHVH was made known to the Isrealites because the promise was through Isaac (Not Ishmael), and they were tasked with the job of showing YHVH to the world through their way of living.

Isaiah 42:6 “I, the Lord, officially commission you; I take hold of your hand.
I protect you and make you a covenant mediator for people, and a light to the nations,
42:7 to open blind eyes, to release prisoners from dungeons, those who live in darkness from prisons.

God revealed himself and his loving relationship to humanity in part through the Torah by way of his Son Israel, and later through his only begoten son Christ Jesus, and we know as Christians that our Savior Jesus was the fullfilment of the Law, which brings eternal life and the law that was once written on stone, is now etched upon our hearts (Jer 31:31-34)

Under this new covenant in Christ Jesus we are told to preach the gospel to every nation, but to those who do not listen, we are not to badger them, or force them. We are to kick the dust off our feet (Luke 9:5) and continue along our way...

 

[JudaicChristian]

History of God's Name. Link: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48811

 

[stovebolts]

mdo,
You have also posted your last comment as a new topic in the AP forum. Please do not make mulitple posts with the same content as it adds confusion to the board. Since your post in the AP forum has recieved a few comments, I am asking you to edit your last post in this thread with a link to your nww OP in the AP forum for continued discussion.

Thank you for your consideration.

 

[suhaiil]

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mdo757

Let’s summarize the discussion:

- Before Islam, pagan/polytheists of Mecca had attached false ilahs (gods) to the real God – Allah. That’s why the First Commandment of Islam says:

THERE IS NO ILAH (DEITY) EXCEPT ALLAH

- The unseen God of us has names like God-the-Almighty / Allah /Yahwah/Eloh and so on. So all names refer to the same God – the God of Abraham, the Creator of everything.

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May God gives us the wisdom!

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[JudaicChristian]

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mdo757

Let’s summarize the discussion:

- Before Islam, pagan/polytheists of Mecca had attached false ilahs (gods) to the real God – Allah. That’s why the First Commandment of Islam says:

THERE IS NO ILAH (DEITY) EXCEPT ALLAH

- The unseen God of us has names like God-the-Almighty / Allah /Yahwah/Eloh and so on. So all names refer to the same God – the God of Abraham, the Creator of everything.

------------------------------------

May God gives us the wisdom!

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Here is the problem Suhaiil, Allah was a Pagan god, and worshipped as such before the time of Islam. The Arabs before the days of Mohammad knew the God of Abraham as Yahwah; but they turned their backs against Him because He would not curse the Jews for them. The name Yahwah is written on the Moabite stone as proof, that the Arabs knew God by His personal name Yahwah. It's written in stone! literally

 

[suhaiil]

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May God gives us the wisdom!




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[JudaicChristian]

My name is Michael and "Allah is not the God of Abraham" is written by me MDO 757 AKA JudaicChristian. The story is also located here without any disruptions at: http://judaicchristianforum.proboards.c ... &thread=30

 

[JudaicChristian]

Bumping to the top.

 

[Ahuli]

Do they think that when they convince us that our religion is "wrong" that we will come begging on our knees to be allowed to become Christians? Exactly why do they concern themselves so much. There must be a reason.

Yaqub

On your knees to Christ and no one else. It'll feel natural when you have a relationship with HIM.

Our concern is simple ... we are commissioned to go into all the world and preach the gospel of Jesus, because HE has asked us to do so. HE does not want anyone to be lost, nor do those who love HIM.

However, not with a sword, not with death, not with threats, not with blood, not with hate, but with love. And, you'll be able to tell the Christian easily, he will not use the above methods. Is that true for islam?

Your religion IS WRONG. Based on how it plays itself out throughout its history and the actions of its prophet.