Bible Study Am I Held Accountable for My Great Grandfather's Sin?

[WIP]

This morning at our Men’s Prayer Breakfast we read from Numbers 14 and when we came across verse 18 it struck a chord. The NKJV renders it this way.

The Lord is longsuffering and abundant in mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He by no means clears the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation.

The part I put in bold type is what is on my mind. I know this is basically quoted from the 10 Commandments recorded in Exodus 20:4-6 and again in Deuteronomy 5:9 which says….

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

What I am struggling with is there are other verses in Scripture that seem to contradict this. For example…

Deuteronomy 24:16
“Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall children be put to death for their fathers; a person shall be put to death for his own sin.”

Ezekiel 18:14-20
“If, however, he begets a son
Who sees all the sins which his father has done,
And considers but does not do likewise;
Who has not eaten on the mountains,
Nor lifted his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel,
Nor defiled his neighbor’s wife;
Has not oppressed anyone,
Nor withheld a pledge,
Nor robbed by violence,
But has given his bread to the hungry
And covered the naked with clothing;
Who has withdrawn his hand from the poor
And not received usury or increase,
But has executed My judgments
And walked in My statutes—
He shall not die for the iniquity of his father;
He shall surely live!

As for his father,
Because he cruelly oppressed,
Robbed his brother by violence,
And did what is not good among his people,
Behold, he shall die for his iniquity.

Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live. The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.”


How do I reconcile these verses?

 

[Northman]

I don't think there is any contradiction. God's judgement on those who hate him - Deuteronomy 5:9, and his willingness to forgive their children - Ezekiel 18:14-20, seem totally in line with God's character.

The thing that might appear to be a wrench isn't actually one. Deuteronomy 24:16 is a command to people. It is not something God is bound by. So, however God wants to deal with folks and generational whatever, people are instructed to keep completely out of it.

Does that help or make it worse?

 

[LovethroughDove]

It's kinda like the generational curse thing. This is a real thing. I was just speaking to my kid yesterday about this. My child mentioned that my side of the family seems bipolar (even though we've never been diagnosed). My side of the family can be really chill and then annoyed the next minute.

This seems to be generation to generation, but that will not be accounted for at judgment because what we do with that curse individually...........that is what matters. Romans 14:12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

Example: My mom doesn't see it in herself that this happens, so she can't address it. I definitely know I need the peace of Christ in these situations.

 

[JohnDB]

Hermeneutics is a BLEND of science (history, anthropology, geography) and art (hyperbole, metaphor, simile, poetry).

On top of this...
Hebrew is a metaphoric language. Absolutely made up of idioms of speech.

Then Hebrew also has parts of grammar that we don't have.

Even "thought for thought" translations like the NIV can't keep up with the language and the nuances.

Ham, Noah's son is relevant to this discussion.
Ham had his son Canaan while aboard the Ark. (He wasn't supposed to)
But at the time everyone was hot looking for the "Seed of the Woman" that was to allow them access back to the garden.
Ham thought that Canaan was going to be IT.

Then the whole drunkenness to thing with Noah and Ham's reaction to his father's state.

Noah then relates a curse. God doesn't curse...He blesses.
So what was Noah saying?
Basically that Canaan was cursed and that Ham was going to curse Canaan (his favorite son) with his own attitude.

And indeed the Canaanites we're cursed. They were run over by the Egyptians and Hebrews and Philistines. Nothing much remains of them to this day. No elements of the people whatsoever. Egyptian, Jews, and all the surrounding people's exist...just not them.

 

[WIP]

I was talking to our company chaplain about this and he essentially put it this way, if I was following him correctly. He said that the Old Testament is often descriptive more than prescriptive. In other words, when God said He would visit the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation He was predicting what would happen but not necessarily prescribing what would happen. In other words, if a child of one generation repented and turned from evil, God would still be able to forgive as described by Ezekiel.

 

[stovebolts]

Exodus 20 is in reference to generational sin. The setting in those passages are within the context of wedding. Think bride and groom making wedding vows.
If one parent goes astray raising the kids, the other parent is left picking up the slack.
Those who hate me could be those who worshipped the golden calf, and we're put to the sword. Those who love me, are those like Moses who cared for the flick.

 

[chessman]

I know this is basically quoted from the 10 Commandments recorded in Exodus 20:4-6 and again in Deuteronomy 5:9 which says….

If Moses was quoting God’s written word, he didn’t do a very good job of it. He chopped off the most important part.

Look at the 2nd commandment again. The Iniquity was visited (not permanent) only to those who hate God. “Mercy” went to those who love God.

Additionally, a better word for the Hebrew translation is “steadfast love” versus “mercy”.

Jesus corrected a very common misconception held by the Jews (even his disciples) concerning this subject.

As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth. And His disciples asked Him, “ Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.​

...​

They answered him, “ You were born entirely in sins, and are you teaching us?” So they put him out.​

John 9:1-3,34 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 9:1-3,34&version=NASB

Notice how the Jews, even in Jesus’s day, thought the man was blind due to his parents’ sin. Umm, not so.

 

[WIP]

If Moses was quoting God’s written word, he didn’t do a very good job of it. He chopped off the most important part.

Look at the 2nd commandment again. The Iniquity was visited (not permanent) only to those who hate God. “Mercy” went to those who love God.

Additionally, a better word for the Hebrew translation is “steadfast love” versus “mercy”.

Jesus corrected a very common misconception held by the Jews (even his disciples) concerning this subject.

As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth. And His disciples asked Him, “ Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.​

...​

They answered him, “ You were born entirely in sins, and are you teaching us?” So they put him out.​

John 9:1-3,34 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 9:1-3,34&version=NASB

Notice how the Jews, even in Jesus’s day, thought the man was blind due to his parents’ sin. Umm, not so.

I've understood the example in the gospel of John to be a different scenario completely. The way I have understood it, Jesus was saying that his blindness was not due to sin at all but has another purpose - to dipslay the works of God in Him (Jesus).

 

[eddif]

Ok
Once upon a time under the covenant of the law generational curses existed ( scriptures already quoted).

On to time of Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel. This is a plural prophetic time. The destruction of Jerusalem is being decreed and the coming of the Messiah and Holy Spirit are being prophesied for the future (Law in heart and mind).

Because there will be a 400 year period of silence it seems like the following scriptures are for right then, but much is prophetic future.
Jeremiah 31:29 kjv
In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.

Read whole passage for context.

Jeremiah 31:31 kjv
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Some today still look at the generational curses as in action. In Christ we are able to be free of this.

Now I did the post as in authority, but I understand more every year.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

Mark 7:13 kjv
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Since there was a period of generational curses, some bypass the promise of them not being spoken of. There are whole seminars done on generational curses. I do not wish to get into all this.

eddif

 

[Garion]

That verse specifically is one of the reason's that I think that the Bible has been corrupted.

It also says somewhere that He is perfect.... He can't be perfect and jealous at the same time.

The one that I like and believe is the one about educating yourself so that you know the difference between right and wrong.

 

[Garion]

Maybe it's not corrupted in a nefarious sense but a test by Him to see who's paying attention, kinda like those online job applications where they ask a series of questions where most would answer yes for like 10 questions in a row but they sneak a no one in just to see if you are just marking them blindly.

 

[Jim Parker]

The Lord is longsuffering and abundant in mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He by no means clears the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation.

Your question, in the thread title, was whether or not you are held accountable for your grandfather's sin.
The answer is "No."
However, your grandfather's sin may have repercussions that affect several generations after him. The consequences of his sin can cause trouble for multiple generations.

For example: a story
A man makes very good money as a VP of sales in a major corporation.
He is married with several kids who all go to private schools and their college tuitions are already taken care of.
They live in a large home in an exclusive neighborhood.
He also likes to gamble and to use cocaine.
As a result of his gambling and drug use, he spends every cent he had saved and has gone into debt having mortgaged the house and most everything he owns and finally looses his job because of his drug use.
They have to sell everything to pay off debts.
His wife divorces him and takes the kids with her. (because he's in jail)

She is now a single mom with very limited income; one of the worst financial situations possible.
The kids do not get to go to college but have to go to work after high school in order to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table.
Their hopes of being engineers and doctors and lawyers are ruined.

The kids marry and have children but are more or less stuck in the lower end of the wage scale because of their father's sins.
Their kids, the 3rd generation, will have to struggle to move up to lower-middle class and the next generation may be able to break out into middle class or better.

All because of the sins of the grandfather.

No one but the grandfather is accountable for his sins.
Yet, in this world, generations of his children pay the price.

fade to black - commercial.....

 

[eddif]

Hebrews 1:1 kjv
Paul, a prisoner of Jesus Christ, and Timothy our brother, unto Philemon our dearly beloved, and fellowlabourer,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

John 1:17 kjv
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Luke 16:16 kjv
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

The time of the generational curses ( under the law) did not have the Holy Spirit and Christ’s quickening spirit inside individuals. External circumstances drove a persons life ( the exception being prophets - and a few others).

The people after Jesus had an inner work of God that could allow a person to escape the parents sin. The individual sinner could change.

The law used lawfully is still in effect (passing away but still around). Now an ox is seen as a bishop and not an ox (if the eyes of your understanding are opened). The quickening spirit the 2nd Adam became works on the inside of post Jesus man ( if you open the door when he knocks). Revelation 3:20

The law can also lawfully define sin. Jesus however is the way to deal with sin through the sacrifice of himself, and not animals.

The new covenant changed things. Our eyes have to be open to the New Covenant. Do we teach 613 things (?), or do?we teach Jesus and him crucified?

I lived under the law 12 years. Not by affiliation with Jews, but by belief. I have not chunked the Law, but seek to use it lawfully. The law will identify parents as sinners, but grace is your escape.

redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

Your question, in the thread title, was whether or not you are held accountable for your grandfather's sin.
The answer is "No."
However, your grandfather's sin may have repercussions that affect several generations after him. The consequences of his sin can cause trouble for multiple generations.

For example: a story
A man makes very good money as a VP of sales in a major corporation.
He is married with several kids who all go to private schools and their college tuitions are already taken care of.
They live in a large home in an exclusive neighborhood.
He also likes to gamble and to use cocaine.
As a result of his gambling and drug use, he spends every cent he had saved and has gone into debt having mortgaged the house and most everything he owns and finally looses his job because of his drug use.
They have to sell everything to pay off debts.
His wife divorces him and takes the kids with her. (because he's in jail)

She is now a single mom with very limited income; one of the worst financial situations possible.
The kids do not get to go to college but have to go to work after high school in order to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table.
Their hopes of being engineers and doctors and lawyers are ruined.

The kids marry and have children but are more or less stuck in the lower end of the wage scale because of their father's sins.
Their kids, the 3rd generation, will have to struggle to move up to lower-middle class and the next generation may be able to break out into middle class or better.

All because of the sins of the grandfather.

No one but the grandfather is accountable for his sins.
Yet, in this world, generations of his children pay the price.

fade to black - commercial.....

Is not this his real question?
“How do I reconcile these verses?”
The title leads you one direction, but the bottom line is (He sees both sides of the issue).

IMHO the two differing covenants give the answer to reconcile all the differing discussion.

You are right to some extent. And I would just word what you said differently. The behavior of the parents influence us to some extent / level, but their behavior does not have dominion over the children (they can get beyond issues).

eddif

 

[eddif]

Jeremiah 31:30 kjv
But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

I forgot I can switch symbolism / context and not blink.

I suggested reading the passage, but did not post the verse that shows we are talking about the sin a person commits.

The sins of the fathers are those eating sour grapes, and the influence on the children are the teeth of the children set on edge.

If the dominion influence of fathers sins are broken, then the children are not bound under a generation curse.

eddif

 

[maplegoat]

How do I reconcile these verses?

I would suggest you recall you are a Christian and not a Jew. And when you accepted Christ as your savior your sins were forgiven you and God blotted them from the record for all time.
1 John 5:18
We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

 

[eddif]

I would suggest you recall you are a Christian and not a Jew. And when you accepted Christ as your savior your sins were forgiven you and God blotted them from the record for all time.
1 John 5:18
We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Ephesians 2:15 kjv
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

The Jewish and Gentile Christians are now one in Christ.

Gentiles were grafted in. This is a deep subject in and of itself.

eddif

 

[Count Duckula]

Psalms 2:7 KJV
I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

To me, King David is God's begotten son. David's origin and lineage troubled him through his life. 19 known sons, 1 known daughter. Thanks kids also had many troubles. It seems God likes flawed guys but the generational sin curse seemed to be in place. Once Christianity took effect and sins are forgiven, shouldn't that end this phenomenon?

 

[GodsGrace]

[ kjvCount Duckula, post: 1433124, member: 7231"]Psalms 2:7 KJV
I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

To me, King David is God's begotten son. David's origin and lineage troubled him through his life. 19 known sons, 1 known daughter. Thanks kids also had many troubles. It seems God likes flawed guys but the generational sin curse seemed to be in place. Once Christianity took effect and sins are forgiven, shouldn't that end this phenomenon?[/QUOTE]
No it doesn't.
Not if we want to call the o.t. the word of God.
But it was written thousands of years ago... it's important to understand it.
Jim Parker hit the nail on the head.
He perfectly reconciled WIP's two verses.

Count Duckula