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An Honest Christian

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#1
The way I see it, is that Christianity is plagued with problems. Such, that us atheists can't help but take a step back.

What concerns me is you people are everywhere spreading a morality that you never seem to measure up to. Then you excuse yourself by those same standard's by saying "We're all sinners"

If anything has convinced me that your god is not true, it has to be the Christians themselves. I think that it is fair to base my opinion square on you and your actions. Well if Jesus spirit lives in you and you continue to live as if he doesn't, then what am I to think.

Anyway, I throw the floor open to you.
 
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#2
Im confused you signed up as a Christian ( on left side ); your first statement in the op you say "us atheists"
 

Knotical

Shepherd of the Knotical kid-farm
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#4
We are all sinners and fall short of the Glory of God. This is why we must always ask for forgiveness. The difference between Christians (who are truly saved, by faith through grace) and unbelievers is that Christians no longer live under the curse of sin. Meaning, that we will see eternity in Heaven. This, by no means, means we are perfect in anyway, just that we have the assurance of our salvation. Unbelievers only have eternity in hell to look forward to, regardless of whether or not they believe in it.
 
R

Runner

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#5
I've often said, here and elsewhere, that if I were an atheist my principal challenge to Christians would be: "Where's the beef? If your religion is uniquely informed by the Holy Spirit and each of you is uniquely indwelt by the Holy Spirit and uniquely in the process of being transformed by Him, shouldn't Christians and Christianity be objectively different from and better than any other community of believers or non-believers? Do you seriously think that any cross-section of Christianity is objectively different from and better than any cross-section of atheism, Buddhism, Hinduism or Whatever? How could the level of dissension and disunity that exists within your churches, your 35,000 denominations and throughout your entire religion possibly exist if what you claim were actually true?"

This is a very legitimate objection that I've puzzled over myself. Sure, we're all still in the flesh and all prone to the failings of human nature - but come on, shouldn't the Holy Spirit we claim to have be able to produce a little more obvious fruit than He actually does? Wouldn't that be the most effective way to spread the gospel, if Christians actually were a harmonious body of Christ, transformed in a way that non-believers could not deny?

I have been forced to conclude that something is indeed radically, fundamentally wrong with "Christianity." I don't believe the religion as it has evolved actually has much of anything to do with what Jesus was talking about.

To the extent that someone is interested in or at least open to Christianity, I always to tell him or her to forget about "Christianity" and all its trappings. Focus on Jesus as portrayed in the gospels, which are the only historical record we have. Pray about what you have read. Ask for the Truth to make itself known.

The question is not, "What are you going to do about Christianity?" It is, "What are you going to do about Jesus?" It's a purely individual matter: You and God. I have seen within my own life what I believe to be genuine, objective evidence of God at work and a genuine, objectively observable transformation. None of this means anything to anyone but me, however.

You can only come to a knowledge of the truth about Jesus by confronting Him yourself. Rejecting Him on the basis that "Christianity" is unworthy of Him is a misguided approach.
 
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#6
Has someone harmed you? Recently or a long time ago? I get the sense from this post and your last thread you started that there is a lot of frustration that you hold towards Christians. However whatever it is is hidden by generalizing Christians and christianity to your negitive assertions.

If something happened, can you go into detail about it? Otherwise it seems the reason the last thread was closed remains justified. Lets get to the issue if there is one. But the point of this section is for questions and discussion. Not to be an open platform to critize Christians who might or might not fit your accusations.

... If you can answer. What happened?
 

WIP

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#7
The way I see it, is that Christianity is plagued with problems. Such, that us atheists can't help but take a step back.

What concerns me is you people are everywhere spreading a morality that you never seem to measure up to. Then you excuse yourself by those same standard's by saying "We're all sinners"

If anything has convinced me that your god is not true, it has to be the Christians themselves. I think that it is fair to base my opinion square on you and your actions. Well if Jesus spirit lives in you and you continue to live as if he doesn't, then what am I to think.

Anyway, I throw the floor open to you.
You are correct that we fail to live perfect lives as we are called. Jesus said, "You shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:48 NKJV As has been pointed out by Knotical, Scriptures clearly state that we all, not most and not some but all, fall short of the glory of God, believers and non-believers alike. As a species we have proven over and over again that we are incapable of living perfect lives and that is why we desperately need a savior.

I will also not deny the fact that claiming the title Christian does not a Christian make. If you ever meet a true Christian you should be able to see it for Jesus said, "You will know them by their fruits." This does not mean we will be perfect for as already stated, that is not possible for us but I contend that we should be at least recognizable.

Bottom line is if you are basing your faith on the human condition, you will be sadly mistaken as it sounds like you are. Christianity is not about us. It is about our Savior, the Christ, Jesus. Where do you put your faith? In whom or what do you trust? No one comes to the Father (gets into heaven) except through Him (Jesus Christ).
 
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#8
No, I'm not a Christian.
Thanks I may have misread something. Everyone sins.

Because everyone grows up in different environments they learn to believe in different things and sometimes it is hard to change those beliefs.
There are people who proclaim to be Christian and just are not. Many times Christians are judged by those peoples actions.
 
Joined
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#9
We are all sinners and fall short of the Glory of God. This is why we must always ask for forgiveness. The difference between Christians (who are truly saved, by faith through grace) and unbelievers is that Christians no longer live under the curse of sin. Meaning, that we will see eternity in Heaven. This, by no means, means we are perfect in anyway, just that we have the assurance of our salvation. Unbelievers only have eternity in hell to look forward to, regardless of whether or not they believe in it.
I don't know what to say when the hell stick waved around.
 
Joined
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Messages
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#10
I've often said, here and elsewhere, that if I were an atheist my principle challenge to Christians would be: "Where's the beef? If your religion is uniquely informed by the Holy Spirit and each of you is uniquely indwelt by the Holy Spirit and uniquely in the process of being transformed by Him, shouldn't Christians and Christianity be objectively different from and better than any other community of believers or non-believers? Do you seriously think that any cross-section of Christianity is objectively different from and better than any cross-section of atheism, Buddhism, Hinduism or Whatever? How could the level of dissension and disunity that exists within your churches, your 35,000 denominations and throughout your entire religion possibly exist if what you claim were actually true?"

This is a very legitimate objection that I've puzzled over myself. Sure, we're all still in the flesh and all prone to the failings of human nature - but come on, shouldn't the Holy Spirit we claim to have be able to produce a little more obvious fruit than He actually does? Wouldn't that be the most effective way to spread the gospel, if Christians actually were a harmonious body of Christ, transformed in a way that non-believers could not deny?

I have been forced to conclude that something is indeed radically, fundamentally wrong with "Christianity." I don't believe the religion as it has evolved actually has much of anything to do with what Jesus was talking about.

To the extent that someone is interested in or at least open to Christianity, I always to tell him or her to forget about "Christianity" and all its trappings. Focus on Jesus as portrayed in the gospels, which are the only historical record we have. Pray about what you have read. Ask for the Truth to make itself known.

The question is not, "What are you going to do about Christianity?" It is, "What are you going to do about Jesus?" It's a purely individual matter: You and God. I have seen within my own life what I believe to be genuine, objective evidence of God at work and a genuine, objectively observable transformation. None of this means anything to anyone but me, however.

You can only come to a knowledge of the truth about Jesus by confronting Him yourself. Rejecting Him on the basis that "Christianity" is unworthy of Him is a misguided approach.
Good post.
 

Papa Zoom

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#11
The way I see it, is that Christianity is plagued with problems. Such, that us atheists can't help but take a step back.
What concerns me is you people are everywhere spreading a morality that you never seem to measure up to. Then you excuse yourself by those same standard's by saying "We're all sinners"
If anything has convinced me that your god is not true, it has to be the Christians themselves. I think that it is fair to base my opinion square on you and your actions. Well if Jesus spirit lives in you and you continue to live as if he doesn't, then what am I to think.
Anyway, I throw the floor open to you.
It's a mistake to base your view on the actions of a few. Who specifically are these Christians to whom you refer? It's certainly not me since you don't know a thing about me personally. Where are you getting your information?

Jesus is the true representative of Christianity. Your limited experience with a few Christians is not adequate to determine the truth or falsity of Christian truth claims. You're not even making an argument here.

This is a forum for questions. Assuming you are here to really seek answers, why is it I see no actual question in your post?
 
Joined
Sep 27, 2017
Messages
41
#12
Has someone harmed you? Recently or a long time ago? I get the sense from this post and your last thread you started that there is a lot of frustration that you hold towards Christians. However whatever it is is hidden by generalizing Christians and christianity to your negitive assertions.

If something happened, can you go into detail about it? Otherwise it seems the reason the last thread was closed remains justified. Lets get to the issue if there is one. But the point of this section is for questions and discussion. Not to be an open platform to critize Christians who might or might not fit your accusations.

... If you can answer. What happened?
I don't want to talk about it, it was many beers ago.
 
Joined
Sep 27, 2017
Messages
41
#13
It's a mistake to base your view on the actions of a few. Who specifically are these Christians to whom you refer? It's certainly not me since you don't know a thing about me personally. Where are you getting your information?

Jesus is the true representative of Christianity. Your limited experience with a few Christians is not adequate to determine the truth or falsity of Christian truth claims. You're not even making an argument here.

This is a forum for questions. Assuming you are here to really seek answers, why is it I see no actual question in your post?
I've been conversing with Christians since 1991, that's a long time.

It seems to me that life keeps sending me these broken Christians, who have nothing but problems. I've never walked off on any of these people, but they just come then go.

Anyway, what am I going on about.
 

reba

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#14
The disrespect your postings show are not welcome. As stated to you before CFnet is not a platform for your anti-God rhetoric
Thread closed
 
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