An Unbiased Poll Concerning Hell

[Michael Burke]

Above is an example of an unbiased poll on the nature of Hell

 

[Judy]

So far I stand alone I voted "Hell is everlasting, unbelievers being justly punished for all eternity"

I believe the unbelievers are not given a second chance, nor are they annihilated. The punishment of the wicked dead is described throughout Scripture as "everlasting fire" (Matt 25:41); "unquenchable fire" (Matt 3:12); "shame and everlasting contempt" (Dan. 12:2); a place where "their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:44-49); a place of "torments" and "flame" (Luke 16:23,24) "everlasting destruction" (2Thes 1:9); a place of torment with "fire and brimstone" where "the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever" (Rev. 14:10,11); and a "lake of fire and brimstone" where the wicked are "tormented day and night forever and ever" (Rev. 20:10). Here Jesus indicates that the punishment itself is everlasting -- not merely the smoke and flames.

 

[guibox]

So far I stand alone I voted "Hell is everlasting, unbelievers being justly punished for all eternity"

I believe the unbelievers are not given a second chance, nor are they annihilated. The punishment of the wicked dead is described throughout Scripture as "everlasting fire" (Matt 25:41); "unquenchable fire" (Matt 3:12); "shame and everlasting contempt" (Dan. 12:2); a place where "their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:44-49); a place of "torments" and "flame" (Luke 16:23,24) "everlasting destruction" (2Thes 1:9); a place of torment with "fire and brimstone" where "the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever" (Rev. 14:10,11); and a "lake of fire and brimstone" where the wicked are "tormented day and night forever and ever" (Rev. 20:10). Here Jesus indicates that the punishment itself is everlasting -- not merely the smoke and flames.

And all of these terms are used elsewhere in the bible metaphorically and to denote absolute and utter destruction and annihilation and to show results and continuity, not eternal duration. These terms must be understood in the metaphorical context, their linguistic meaning and cross referenced elsewhere. When you do, you will see that the language here is quite explainable and doesn't mean what you think it does.

 

[Judy]

And that is your opinion. :-D

 

[KnarfKS]

Why was the subject of hell Jesus's 2nd most common topic?

 

[Michael Burke]

So far I stand alone I voted "Hell is everlasting, unbelievers being justly punished for all eternity"

I believe the unbelievers are not given a second chance, nor are they annihilated. The punishment of the wicked dead is described throughout Scripture as "everlasting fire" (Matt 25:41); "unquenchable fire" (Matt 3:12); "shame and everlasting contempt" (Dan. 12:2); a place where "their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:44-49); a place of "torments" and "flame" (Luke 16:23,24) "everlasting destruction" (2Thes 1:9); a place of torment with "fire and brimstone" where "the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever" (Rev. 14:10,11); and a "lake of fire and brimstone" where the wicked are "tormented day and night forever and ever" (Rev. 20:10). Here Jesus indicates that the punishment itself is everlasting -- not merely the smoke and flames.

I thank you for casting your vote, and stating your opinion. I try to avoid the term "mis-translation," because I believe that the King James translators, the translators of the N.I.V., James Moffat, J.B. Phillips, and Dr. Robert Young all tried to convey the meaning of the Greek New Testament in English. I think the problem is that something is almost always lost in translation, and that all translation involves interpretation. If you look up all the verses you quoted in Young's Literal Translation, and concede that Young was an honest scholar of the Greek New Testament who tried to convey it's meaning in English (and who understood the language of the New Testament better then you or I), you must also concede the possibility of honest disagreement on this subject. I do believe the King James translators (and most of those who followed them) were influenced by theological baggage, but that's an opinion, so I also concede there is room for disagreement.

Young's Literal Translation:
Rev. 20:10
and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.
Rev. 14:10-11
he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb, and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name.
Dan. 12:2
`And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches -- to abhorrence age-during.
Matt. 25:41
Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers

(as I don't believe anyone is contesting the fire, the torment, or suggesting that the fire can be put out prematurely, I see no reason to quote the passages in Luke 16 or Mark 9.)
God bless.

 

[Michael Burke]

And all of these terms are used elsewhere in the bible metaphorically and to denote absolute and utter destruction and annihilation and to show results and continuity, not eternal duration. These terms must be understood in the metaphorical context, their linguistic meaning and cross referenced elsewhere. When you do, you will see that the language here is quite explainable and doesn't mean what you think it does.

I also thank you for casting your vote, and stating your opinion. God bless.

 

[smaller]

I'd be happy to vote in your poll, unfortunately the categories are limited.

When you state "unbeliever" this has a twofold meaning. An "unbeliever" can be a "slave" of sin and made to be that way by the "god" of this present wicked and evil generation. Does that make the "slave" the unbeliever, or the Master. The Master is the clearly reveald "unbeliever" as that Master is "the cause" of unbelief. Same analogy goes for the "wicked servant." Who is that wicked servant but the cause?

And even these, the pieces of the anti-spirit puzzle are moved by God Himself. There are no self wrought moves on His Chessboard and "all things" are His.

So yes, there are "unbelievers" and "they" will be eternally punished and not redeemed.

The Lake is reserved for them and only them.

These, as "goats," as "tares," as "wicked servants," as "unbelievers," as "children of the devil," as "that man of woe," as "children of the flesh," shall be separated from the "sheep," the "children of God," the "wheat," the "captives," the "lame," the "blind" and these former shall go away to "everlasting" punishment for that is what they themselves are.

To see in this way is to take a step in the "right" direction of judgment in separting the "quick" from the "dead" and to Love your fellow mankind as God Loves them as well, more than we ever will in this present life of part and darkness.

Romans 11:32

To the one Paul described himself as an aroma of death and to the other Paul described himself as an aroma of life and who is fit to see this difference? Even more, who is fit for such things? (2 Corinthians 2:16)

Inasmuch as it is for you, follow peace with "all" men and judge righteous judgment as Jesus has shown us. Do not condemn the innocents. (Matthew 12:7)

Bear The Sword of The Word in The Way He Intended.

Who is a Warrior fit for that battle against the rulers of darkness in high places? One who is wrapped in The Truth of The Word.

The high places are your Temples, your bodies, in which sin dwells. Sin is of the devil. The devil sits in your temple, pretending to be God, judging unrighteously. His wife declares that she is a Queen, and no widow. Mystery of Iniquity. Mystery Babylon. Spiritual Sodom and Egypt.

Wake Up O Lord and show us Your Tender Mercies. (Psalm 44:23-26)

Woe to those who would cut off Your Children and Your offsprings!

Woe and utter desolation is their reward! Baal shall be judged and defeated in Babylon. (Jeremiah 51)

Whet Your Sword of Separation and Division Lord! Let it cut to the marrow and cut that Child in half before the King that we may know the Rightful Mother, Jerusalem Above.

enjoy!

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[stovebolts]

Ok...
I have GSS (Good Samaritan Syndrome) and I voted
"Hell is everlasting, unbelievers being justly punished for all eternity"

 

[Shana]

I cast my vote for the third belief presented in the poll, believing that the scriptures support the teaching that hell (whatever it involves) is remedial in that all will be subjected and restored to God one day. I do believe that hell will involve destruction with a higher purpose in mind. I won't go into detail about this or list many scripture references since I understand that the topic of UR is off limits in the forums. I will give one passage which I believe supports this.

Romans 8


18For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

19For the anxious longing of the creation/creature waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.

20For the creation/creature was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope (expectation)

21that the creation/creature itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

22For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. (NAS)

Differences among Christians on this subject have existed since the early days of the church with many of each group basing their beliefs on what they understand to be taught in the scriptures. God bless.

God bless.

 

[guibox]

When you state "unbeliever" this has a twofold meaning. An "unbeliever" can be a "slave" of sin and made to be that way by the "god" of this present wicked and evil generation. Does that make the "slave" the unbeliever, or the Master. The Master is the clearly reveald "unbeliever" as that Master is "the cause" of unbelief. Same analogy goes for the "wicked servant." Who is that wicked servant but the cause?

So yes, there are "unbelievers" and "they" will be eternally punished and not redeemed.

The Lake is reserved for them and only them.

These, as "goats," as "tares," as "wicked servants," as "unbelievers," as "children of the devil," as "that man of woe," as "children of the flesh," shall be separated from the "sheep," the "children of God," the "wheat," the "captives," the "lame," the "blind" and these former shall go away to "everlasting" punishment for that is what they themselves are.

So what are you saying? The 'unbelievers' and 'wicked' are the demons and not sinners taken over by sin? TO believe this is to take only Revelation 20 and twist it around while ignoring the rest of scripture that show that the wicked's punishment is indeed that of Satan's.

"Depart from ye (all the wicked) who work iniquity into the fire prepared for Satan and his angels"

This fire is the fire that rains down from heaven, the lake of fire that is created where all "who are not written down in the book of life are cast" and where Satan himself is cast. You can't start separating 'sinners' into two categories. There are only two destinies, smaller.

You are saved or you perish in the lake of fire whether you'd interpret this 'perishing' or 'second death' as annihilation or eternal torment.

Perhaps you might want to explain.

 

[smaller]

When you state "unbeliever" this has a twofold meaning. An "unbeliever" can be a "slave" of sin and made to be that way by the "god" of this present wicked and evil generation. Does that make the "slave" the unbeliever, or the Master. The Master is the clearly reveald "unbeliever" as that Master is "the cause" of unbelief. Same analogy goes for the "wicked servant." Who is that wicked servant but the cause?

So yes, there are "unbelievers" and "they" will be eternally punished and not redeemed.

The Lake is reserved for them and only them.

These, as "goats," as "tares," as "wicked servants," as "unbelievers," as "children of the devil," as "that man of woe," as "children of the flesh," shall be separated from the "sheep," the "children of God," the "wheat," the "captives," the "lame," the "blind" and these former shall go away to "everlasting" punishment for that is what they themselves are.

So what are you saying? The 'unbelievers' and 'wicked' are the demons and not sinners taken over by sin? TO believe this is to take only Revelation 20 and twist it around while ignoring the rest of scripture that show that the wicked's punishment is indeed that of Satan's.

I can only make multiple obvious conclusions guibox.

A. All have sin
B. Sin is of the devil who has sinned from the beginning
C. Sin was called "no longer I" twice by Paul in Romans 7:17-21
D. Jesus spoke to other entities in mankind continually during His Ministry
E. There is not one single named human example of anyone going into said Lake or even threatened with such a fate. It is the imaginations of men who take people there.
F. I am commanded by scripture to call no man common or unclean (Acts 10:17)
G. I cannot condemn any person for sins without having sins held against me (Romans 2:1 and multiple other citings in the Gospels.)

"Depart from ye (all the wicked) who work iniquity into the fire prepared for Satan and his angels"

It is only your presumptions that pin sins upon mankind. Paul tells us clearly that sins are not counted against mankind in 2 Corinthians 5:19 and telling us that Love keeps no record of wrongs in 1 Corinthians 13.

Why do you is my question?

This fire is the fire that rains down from heaven, the lake of fire that is created where all "who are not written down in the book of life are cast" and where Satan himself is cast. You can't start separating 'sinners' into two categories. There are only two destinies, smaller.

The Lake of fire is a made or prepared "place" wherein the devils and his messengers are cast at the resurrection of "the dead."

You are saved or you perish in the lake of fire whether you'd interpret this 'perishing' or 'second death' as annihilation or eternal torment.

I concurr with eternal damnation, just not in the same fashion that you do. Your's is the larger problem as it makes God the killer of His Own Children and offspring whom all of mankind are.

Perhaps you might want to explain.

I find your position with huge holes that I could not live with in honesty.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[guibox]

"Depart from ye (all the wicked) who work iniquity into the fire prepared for Satan and his angels"

It is only your presumptions that pin sins upon mankind. Paul tells us clearly that sins are not counted against mankind in 2 Corinthians 5:19 and telling us that Love keeps no record of wrongs in 1 Corinthians 13.

Then God should not allow ANYONE to burn forever. If love keeps no record of wrongs, then all wrongs should be forgiven and forgotten. To make God forgive sinners and yet punish others for sin makes him arbitrary and unfair. Either His 'love that holds no record of wrongs' is absolute or else his justice is also meted out fairly.

The Lake of fire is a made or prepared "place" wherein the devils and his messengers are cast at the resurrection of "the dead."

Yes, and it is a place where all 'not found in the book of life' are cast. Please show me where this doesn't include the wicked. When we accept Christ our name is written there. Logically, those who do not will not have their names written there. Revelation 3:5 says that those who overcometh will not have their names blotted out of the book of life. Obviously the book of life accounts for all mankind.

Your's is the larger problem as it makes God the killer of His Own Children and offspring whom all of mankind are.

No it doesn't. It is a God who is going to destroy sin and death. He is a respecter of choice and so sinners go down with the ship as a natural consequence. If God fully intended to not allow man to suffer the consequences of sin, then the whole history of man's salvation with justification, sanctification dealing with the sin problem, and accepting a savior has been merely a farce and a staged waste of time from the beginning. It has all been a bizarre stage play where we are merely players.

God didn't have to come and die for His 'love keeps no record of wrongs'.

 

[Shana]

I believe that all that has happened is in a sense an acting out or unfolding of what God has intended for the creation. If He sees beginning to end, He knows what will happen and the scriptures say that He works all things according to the counsel of His will. The sending of His Son to die for our sins, the penalty for sin, are all a part of the unfolding plan, I believe. Jesus knew His mission and His purpose. God Himself delivered Jesus into the hands of sinful men. And Jesus was the lamb slain from the foundation or disruption of the world. IF all is an acting out or unfolding of the plan of God, why would this be wrong? It is God's creation and all were created for His good pleasure. He said, "Let us make man in our image" and He did not ask our permission. All have been cast as sinners from the beginning. Does God see beginning to end? Does love keep no record of wrongs? Is this scripture true or not? God is described as love. What do we sinful beings begin realize and understand about God in the gift of His Son for us sinful human beings?God bless.

 

[Michael Burke]

I find your position with huge holes that I could not live with in honesty.

I thank you for casting your vote, and stating your opinion, but I must say that I find huge holes in your position. The All Wise and Powerful God I worship sees the end from the beginning, and as He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, He would not have created beings He knew would sin if this meant they would suffer eternal torment.

 

[smaller]

I find your position with huge holes that I could not live with in honesty.

I thank you for casting your vote, and stating your opinion, but I must say that I find huge holes in your position.

Specifics are required with accusations, otherwise they are just lies eh?

The All Wise and Powerful God I worship sees the end from the beginning, and as He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, He would not have created beings He knew would sin if this meant they would suffer eternal torment.

Kinda like the Wizard of Oz eh? Perhaps you could deal with the fact that I probably believe just as you do with the exception of satan and demons who are "anti-life."

enjoy!

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[Michael Burke]

Kinda like the Wizard of Oz eh? Perhaps you could deal with the fact that I probably believe just as you do with the exception of satan and demons who are "anti-life."

If you truly believe that God is All Wise, All Powerful' and foresees all (which is what I stated), why would you compare Him to the Wizard of Oz? I don't believe you intended it, but I believe this is a case of taking God's name in vain, and I respectfully suggest you repent immediately (as there is a Hell, humans can go there, and one hour would be an eternity.) You do not believe as I do, and I find your logic inconsistent.

 

[smaller]

Kinda like the Wizard of Oz eh? Perhaps you could deal with the fact that I probably believe just as you do with the exception of satan and demons who are "anti-life."

If you truly believe that God is All Wise, All Powerful' and foresees all (which is what I stated), why would you compare Him to the Wizard of Oz?

I was just poking fun at your term, "the all wise and powerful." It is a quote from the Wizard of Oz movie. The all wise and powerful Oz.

I don't believe you intended it, but I believe this is a case of taking God's name in vain,

And I believe you have both a powerful imagination and no sense of humor to boot. Move on with your point.

and I respectfully suggest you repent immediately

Repent of being reminded that "the all wise and powerful" is a quote from a movie? Puhleese.

(as there is a Hell, humans can go there, and one hour would be an eternity.) You do not believe as I do, and I find your logic inconsistent.

I am really not sure what you believe. Your poll was very convoluted to say the least. It did not allow for other legitimate alternatives. For example I can believe no people are going to be in "the Lake" because there is not one single named example of such a thing in the entire Bible.

For another I can believe that satan and his messengers are going to be in the Lake forever because that is specifically in the scriptures.

So where were these alternatives in "your unbiased poll?"

enjoy!

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[Soma-Sight]

There should be one more poll option............

EVERYONE goes to Hell!!

 

[Michael Burke]

Kinda like the Wizard of Oz eh? Perhaps you could deal with the fact that I probably believe just as you do with the exception of satan and demons who are "anti-life."

If you truly believe that God is All Wise, All Powerful' and foresees all (which is what I stated), why would you compare Him to the Wizard of Oz?

I was just poking fun at your term, "the all wise and powerful." It is a quote from the Wizard of Oz movie. The all wise and powerful Oz.

I don't believe you intended it, but I believe this is a case of taking God's name in vain,

And I believe you have both a powerful imagination and no sense of humor to boot. Move on with your point.

[quote:c02a4]
and I respectfully suggest you repent immediately

Repent of being reminded that "the all wise and powerful" is a quote from a movie? Puhleese.

(as there is a Hell, humans can go there, and one hour would be an eternity.) You do not believe as I do, and I find your logic inconsistent.

I am really not sure what you believe. Your poll was very convoluted to say the least. It did not allow for other legitimate alternatives. For example I can believe no people are going to be in "the Lake" because there is not one single named example of such a thing in the entire Bible.

For another I can believe that satan and his messengers are going to be in the Lake forever because that is specifically in the scriptures.

So where were these alternatives in "your unbiased poll?"

enjoy!

smaller[/quote:c02a4]
It's been a long time since I saw the Wizard Of Ozz, but I do remember he was a weak and impotent character. I don't think it's appropriate to compare the Christian God to such a character to make a point, or get a laugh. If you don't think it's a sin to be repented of, and placed under the cross of Christ, that's between you and Him. You're certainly free to believe whatever you want to, and I again thank you for casting your vote, and stating your opinion. That does not mean that I find your logic any less inconsistent. As to no named persons being cast into the Lake of Fire, that depends on whether you see the beast and the false prophet to be human individuals. I see no reason not to.