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    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

And these signs shall follow them that believe;

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WalterandDebbie

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Mark 16:14-18. 17. And these signs shall follow them that believe;

14. Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18. They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Romans 16:20
And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
 
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Hi Brethren WalterandDebbie, what is your opinion of that commission as applying to us today? Is there the possibility that also pointed to the event occurring when Paul had a viper fasten on his hand in Act 28:3-6 so that they of the island of Melita would believe his testimony? Thanks.
We thank you for the above question, and event in Act 28:3-6, It is my thinking that in Mark 16:14-18. 17. And these signs shall follow them that believe;
means to us is:In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18. They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Do you see in this generation those kinds of signs following the believer as stated in the OP?

If so please let us know who and where.
 
Haven't heard of any churches taking up serpents or drinking deadly things during Sunday services but plenty of places do tongues and laying hands on the sick. Not all the sick recover but some do. No point me giving exact names or places. Don't they do that sort of stuff in any churches local to you?

Watching Thomas
 
Yeah as really either you recover on the earth or you recover in heaven if you are a Christian. Plain and simple.
 
Do you see in this generation those kinds of signs following the believer as stated in the OP?
I see certain some mostly Pentecostal assemblies incorporating snake handling in their service seemingly as proof of their believing God. I reckon I would add that I do not believe that is the only verification of us believing, but was the evidence to the eleven with hard hearts sent out to preach the gospel to everyone into all the world.

For instance today there are those receiving the Holy Spirit as evidenced by speaking in tongues, and they must be believers because Jn 14:17 says the world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth. :shrug
 
Haven't heard of any churches taking up serpents or drinking deadly things during Sunday services but plenty of places do tongues and laying hands on the sick. Not all the sick recover but some do. No point me giving exact names or places. Don't they do that sort of stuff in any churches local to you?

Watching Thomas
Thanks, Maybe some camp meetings, but I haven't been out to any service as such. But here is one with R.W. Schambach that I can see if the time is wright watching:

 
I see certain some mostly Pentecostal assemblies incorporating snake handling in their service seemingly as proof of their believing God. I reckon I would add that I do not believe that is the only verification of us believing, but was the evidence to the eleven with hard hearts sent out to preach the gospel to everyone into all the world.

For instance today there are those receiving the Holy Spirit as evidenced by speaking in tongues, and they must be believers because Jn 14:17 says the world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth. :shrug
I do not believe in: incorporating snake handling in their service seemingly as proof of their believing God, but I do believe in the scripture: Jn 14:17 says the world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth.
 
With drinking poison and it not harming, what are the statistics of soft drink and alcohol with causing Christians harm? If you become a Christian does that mean soft drinks no longer cause health problems?

Watching Thomas
 
This scripture came to mind especially vs. 21
Matthew 17:14 And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying, 15 Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is a lunatic, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water. 16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him. 17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me. 18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour. 19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? 20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. 21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

Many do not believe or even know they have the power and authority given to them by God to lay hands on others as these are those who have not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but only give lip service to the Lord. Then you have those that handle snakes and drink poison to prove a point, but that is not what Jesus meant when He said if you drink anything that is poison it will not harm you. I believe Jesus meant if you accidentally drink anything poison. For the snake handlers that is just tempting fate as some have died from their foolishness.

One thing to remember when laying on of hands is to be prayed up first and allow the Holy Spirit work through you especially if you are casting out demons as if you are doing it yourself apart from God those demons can enter you.
 
Then you have those that handle snakes and drink poison to prove a point, but that is not what Jesus meant when He said if you drink anything that is poison it will not harm you. I believe Jesus meant if you accidentally drink anything poison. For the snake handlers that is just tempting fate as some have died from their foolishness.
I agree. As Christians we have not been given power as if we can do what we like with it. Jesus said he only does what he sees his Father doing (John 5:19) which is a principle to guide us. We minister according to leading from the Lord. In the temptations, Satan was trying to get Jesus to use his rightful power in unwise ways, that is to use it in ways which his Father was not showing him to do. Jesus refused. While we are more than servants in God's household, it is still essential to look to the Master for guidance, especially anything involving His power and authority and follow his leading. We are meant to be filled with the Holy Spirit (controlled and empowered) not following deceptive notions and trying to impress others or trying to look spiritual or whatever.

Watching Thomas
 
This scripture came to mind especially vs. 21
Matthew 17:14 And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying, 15 Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is a lunatic, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water. 16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him. 17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me. 18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour. 19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? 20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. 21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

Many do not believe or even know they have the power and authority given to them by God to lay hands on others as these are those who have not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but only give lip service to the Lord. Then you have those that handle snakes and drink poison to prove a point, but that is not what Jesus meant when He said if you drink anything that is poison it will not harm you. I believe Jesus meant if you accidentally drink anything poison. For the snake handlers that is just tempting fate as some have died from their foolishness.

One thing to remember when laying on of hands is to be prayed up first and allow the Holy Spirit work through you especially if you are casting out demons as if you are doing it yourself apart from God those demons can enter you.
Amen
 
There are plenty who do.
https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs...=yhs-mozilla-004&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-004
But I don't think it's what Mark was talking about.
Wow! Jim is that in America? In Australia our snakes are extra deadly so I don't think people would last long mucking around with them. The world's top ten most poisonous snakes includes six land snakes and the top five of those are Australian. Nasty things come from Australia. But some nice things, like koalas. And me.

Yes, I agree with you Jim, I do not think snake handling is what Mark was meaning.

Watching Thomas
 
Mark 16:14-18. 17. And these signs shall follow them that believe;

14. Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18. They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Romans 16:20
And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

WalterandDebbie,

Mark 16:14-18 (NIV) is not in the oldest MSS of the Greek NT. Therefore, I don't believe this passage should be considered as Scripture.

Most contemporary Bible translations have a statement like this in the NIV before Mk 16:9 (NIV): "The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20".

Take vv 16-18 (NIV):

Whoever believes and is baptised will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on people who are ill, and they will get well.’

Do you believe a person needs to be baptised to be saved?
Are people in your church obedient to this Scripture and are snake handlers? Are they drinking deadly poison such as Roundup and are not dying?
RUP_WGK3_Pump_Xlg.png

"they will place their hands on people who are ill, and they will get well". As a former Pentecostal pastor and Bible College teacher, I know of many people who had hands laid on them for healing and there was no change in their medical condition. A fellow locally had cancer and attended a Pentecostal church. When they prayed for him again and again, the pastor and elders told him he would be healed. He died and the church was devastated.

There is some hairy false doctrine that accompanies praying for the sick and a theme of "they will get well". How do we explain it when they continue in sickness or die? I have severe heart disease. I've prayed and prayed for God to heal my artificial heart valves and the church has laid hands on me but there has been no healing. I continue to keep the pharmacies running at good profits with all the drugs I take for my heart AND epilepsy.

Why is God not healing people? Ever heard of His sovereign will? For me, I have found that James 1:2-4 (NASB) explains why I haven't been healed:

2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 4 And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.​

My suffering and trials have tested my faith and produced endurance in my Christian life and I know God is sanctifying me through the process.

Oz
 
There is some hairy false doctrine that accompanies praying for the sick and a theme of "they will get well". How do we explain it when they continue in sickness or die? I have severe heart disease. I've prayed and prayed for God to heal my artificial heart valves and the church has laid hands on me but there has been no healing. I continue to keep the pharmacies running at good profits with all the drugs I take for my heart AND epilepsy.

Why is God not healing people? Ever heard of His sovereign will? For me, I have found that James 1:2-4 (NASB) explains why I haven't been healed:

God is healing people Brother. It's all over youtube. Seems to be mostly overseas where their christianity indoctrination is not so well founded, that keeps Jesus in a little religious box which has very well defined parameters. There are zillions of healing testimony videos. Now of course some are going to be frauds, but due to the sheer number of them one must conclude that some of them are real. A lot of them are real, in fact.

I'm very much like you and have pursued healing for years now. I've been in prayer lines, prayed over, prayed been on my knees...it hasn't happened fully yet, however God did reset my hip joint one night. I had had a seizure at work and fell 10 feet to the concrete floor and dislocated my hip as well as other bumps n bruises. Bein a poor man I dont have insurance or anything so I laid in bed with it for a few days and then one night prayed God heal me as I sleep tonight. In the middle of the night I was woke up by an intense fire burning in my hip. So hot that it made me cry out in pain some things that I shouldn't say, lol. But the burning sensation subsided so I went back to sleep.

When I woke up, I was thinking about what happened in the night. I remember hearing about people who are being healed most of the time they describe feeling a heat sensation at the site of healing. SO I got out of bed and pulled my jammies down to look. No bone sticking out anymore! The Lord healed me. It was still sore, but anytime a bone is reset there will be soreness for a day or two. I figured the proof would be in a couple days if it continued to get better. Well it did. So the Lord IS healing people, the Lord DID heal me...just not everything. So I figure that either this is my thorn in the flesh for this life, or that God may heal me later, at a time which would bring Him a lot of glory for it. Like you, I've got a laundry list of ailments. I had broken my back in two places in an auto accident when I had a seizure at 70 mph on the highway, I'm epileptic, have poor memory, bad teeth, nerve damage in my left foot...

It'll come one day. The monkey wrench in it all is that I have to work to make money to live. I can't do this without their pills. But these signs shall follow those who believe. God is our healer. He is healing people, but not everyone. He's leaving room for faith. Don't give up on healing Brother. This is real, it's just a little discouraging to be held back about it for whatever reason. But that doesn't matter in the long run.
 
Mark 16:14-18 (NIV) is not in the oldest MSS of the Greek NT. Therefore, I don't believe this passage should be considered as Scripture.
Most contemporary Bible translations have a statement like this in the NIV before Mk 16:9 (NIV): "The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20".
The Church has accepted this passage as inspired and I see no reason to reject it on the basis of the current state of archaeology.

Blessings to you
jim
 
The Church has accepted this passage as inspired and I see no reason to reject it on the basis of the current state of archaeology.

Blessings to you
jim

Jim,

I notice you provided no documentation for 'the Church' accepting Mark 16:9-20 as inspired. Which Church? Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Body of Christ, etc? Since it is not in the earliest full NT MSS we have, this seems to be an indication that it was not accepted as Scripture by some in the early church. But it is in a lot of other MSS.

I consider that Kelly Iverson has summarised the material extremely well and to my exegetical and textual satisfaction in the article, “Irony in the end: A textual and literary analysis of Mark 16:8“. Iverson presents this material in footnote 6, based on the internal evidence that includes this examination of the long ending of Mark 16 (I have transliterated the Greek characters in the article to make it more accessible for the general reader):

The longer ending (vv 9-20) is clearly the most attested reading. It is validated by almost all of the extant Greek manuscripts, a significant number of minuscules, numerous versions, and scores of church Fathers. Geographically it is represented by the Byzantine, Alexandrian, and Western text types. However, one should be careful not to reduce textual criticism into an exercise of manuscript counting. Though the longer ending is widely attested, the vast bulk of manuscripts are from the generally inferior, Byzantine text type dating from the 8th to the 13th centuries (except Codex A which is a 5th century document). Due to the solidarity of the Byzantine text type we may assume that this represents at least a fourth century reading (Bruce M. Metzger, The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption, and Restoration, 3rd ed. [New York: Oxford University, 1992], 293).

The abrupt ending (1) is found in the two oldest Greek manuscripts. These Alexandrian uncials a B, both 4th century manuscripts, are supported by the Sinaitic Syriac manuscripts, approximately one hundred Armenian texts and two Georgian manuscripts from the 9th and 10th centuries, and several church Fathers including Clement of Alexandria and Origen. That this reading was more prominent is supported by Eusebius and Jerome who claimed that vv 9-20 were absent from almost all known manuscripts (ibid., 226). It is also significant that Codex Bobiensis (k) omits the longer ending as this is deemed the “most important witness to the Old African Latin” Bible (ibid., 73). The genealogical solidarity of the two primary Alexandrian witnesses suggest that this reading can be dated to the 2nd century (Metzger, Text of the New Testament, 215-216).

To say the least, the evidence is conflicting. One should be careful not to make a firm decision one way or the other regarding Mark’s ending based on the external data alone. Though the majority of New Testament scholars believe that vv 9-20 are not original, virtually none come to this conclusion based purely on the external evidence. Even Farmer must confess that, “while a study of the external evidence is rewarding in itself and can be very illuminating in many ways . . . it does not produce the evidential grounds for a definitive solution to the problem. A study of the history of the text, by itself, has not proven sufficient, since the evidence is divided” (Farmer, Last Twelve Verses of Mark, 74).

Most text-critics appeal to the internal evidence in order to demonstrate that vv 9-20 are non-Marcan. One is immediately struck with the awkward transition between vv 8 and 9. In v 8, the subject, “they” referring to Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome (16:1) is implicit within the third, plural verb, ephobounto. But in v 9 the subject changes to “He” (from the third, singular verb ephan?). The transition is striking because the subject is unexpressed. Furthermore, in v 9 Mary Magdalene is introduced as though she were a new character even though her presence has already been established in the immediate context (15:47; 16:1) while Mary the mother of James and Salome disappear from the entire narrative. This awkward transition coupled with numerous words and phrases that are foreign to Mark, suggest the decidedly inauthentic nature of this ending.

Several examples should prove the point. In 16:9 we find the only occurrence of the verb phainw in the New Testament with respect to the resurrection (though the same verb is used in Luke 9:8 to describe Elijah’s re-appearance). Equally as unusual is the construction par hes ekbeblekei , which is a grammatical hapax. In v 10, the verb poreuvomai which is found 29 times in Matthew and 51 times in Luke is not found in Mark 1:1-16:8, but repeatedly in the longer ending (vv 10, 12, 15). In v 11, The verb theaomai which occurs in Matthew (6:1; 11:7; 22:11; 23:5) and Luke (7:24; 23:55) finds no parallel in Mark except for its multiple occurrence in the longer ending (16:11, 14). In v 12, the expression meta tauta which occurs frequently in Luke (1:24; 5:27; 10:1; 12:4; 17:8; 18:4) and John (2:12; 3:22; 5:1, 14; 6:1; 7:1; 11:7, 11; 13:7; 19:28, 38; 21:1) has no precedence in Mark. phanerow which neither Matthew or Luke use to describe resurrection appearances is found in vv 12 and 14 (J. K. Elliott, “The Text and Language of the endings of Mark’s Gospel,” TZ 27 [1971]: 258). The phrase heteros morph? is also unique to Marcan vocabulary. Neither heteros nor morph? occur elsewhere in Mark and morph? only appears in Paul’s description of the kenosis (Phil 2:6, 7). In v 14, husteros, although used by the other evangelists, is a decidedly non-Marcan term having no precedence in 1:1-16:8. Mark seems to prefer eschatos over husteros as evidenced by several parallel passages in which Mark opts for the former over the later term found in Matthew (cf. Matt 21:37Mark 12:6; Matt 22:27Mark 12:22). In v 18, aside from other lexical and syntactical phenomenon one is struck by the unusual exegetical hapax. No other text in Scripture provides a promise for the handling of snakes and imbibing deadly poison without adverse repercussions. In v 19, though Mark sparingly uses the conjunction ?u, the phrase men ou is not found in 1:1-16:8. The longer ending concludes in v 20 with a litany of non-Marcan vocabulary: sunergeww is not found in Mark or the Gospels and appears to be a Pauline term (Rom 8:28; 1 Cor 16:16; 2 Cor 6:1) but it is never used with Jesus as the subject, and bebaiow along with epakolouthew are also foreign to the Synoptic Gospels.

As is somewhat evident, the internal evidence raises significant problems with Mark 16:9-20. The awkward transition between vv 8 and 9 and the non-Marcan vocabulary has led the vast majority of New Testament scholars to conclude that the longer ending is inauthentic. In fact, even Farmer (Last Twelve Verses of Mark, 103), the leading proponent for the authenticity of the last twelve verses, must confess that some of the evidence warrants this conclusion.​

Iverson’s article provides an overall analysis of some of the major issues in the short vs. long ending of Mark 16. I highly recommend it.

Oz
 
I notice you provided no documentation for 'the Church' accepting Mark 16:9-20 as inspired.
"What's inspired" is a rather modern development which seems to have arising after the puritans decided that the apocrypha shouldn't be in their KJV.
The possibility that the end of Mark was a later addition is the product of modern scholarship based on modern archaeological finds.
IMO, the arguments for not considering the ends of Mark as "inspired" are essentially academic hubris. (Was Paul's letter to the Laodician church "inspired"? No one has seen it in 1900 years so we'll never know but we could argue about it.)
The entire Gospel of Mark has served us well for nearly 2 millennia and arguing about whether it is "inspired" seems to me to be a useless exercise.
I'm just not interested.
Sorry. :shrug

blessings
jim
 
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