Another interesting "666"

[Willie T]

This is but a small excerpt from a 25 year-old book I have on my computer.

False Prophecies for Fun and Profit​

Those Christians who believe that we are drawing close to the last days are continually trying to identify both the Beast and the Antichrist. This game of "find the Beast and identify the Antichrist” has become the adult Christians' version of the child's game of pin the tail on the donkey. Every few years, the participants place blindfolds over their eyes, turn around six times, and march toward the wall. Sometimes they march out the door and over a cliff, as was the case with Edgar C. Whisenant, whose best-selling two-part book announced in the summer of 1988 that Jesus would surely appear to rapture His Church during Rosh Hashanah week in mid-September. Half the book was called On Borrowed Time. The other was more aptly titled, 88 Reasons why the Rapture is in 1988. I can think of one key argument why his book's thesis was incorrect: no Rapture so far, and it is now February, 1993. (February, 2018, as of this editing) So much for all 88 arguments. The anti-Christian world got another great laugh at the expense of millions of fundamentalists who had bought and read his two-part book. The story of Mr. Whisenant's book was front-page news briefly around the U.S. Mr. Whisenant is now ancient history, one more forgotten laughingstock who brought reproach to the Church of Jesus Christ while he gained his brief moment of fame. But replacements will surely follow.

This is the whole problem. The victims self-consciously forget the last self-proclaimed expert in Bible prophecy whose predictions did not come to pass. They never learn to recognize the next false prophet because they refuse to admit to themselves that they had been suckered by the last one. Thus, this sucker's game has been going on throughout the twentieth century, generation after generation, a pathetic story chronicled superbly by Dwight Wilson in his well-documented book, Armageddon Now!, a book that was not regularly assigned to students at Dallas Seminary, I can assure you. Again and again, some prominent world political figure has been identified as either the Beast or the Antichrist: Lenin, Mussolini, Hider, Stalin, and even Henry Kissinger. (It was President Reagan's good fortune that he was a conservative so beloved by fundamentalists, given the remarkable structure of his name: Ronald [6] Wilson [6] Reagan [6].)

 

[reba]

love the post but i believe it needs a different forum... maybe ET ...

 

[Willie T]

love the post but i believe it needs a different forum... maybe ET ...

I normally ONLY post in a room that might be labeled something like "miscellaneous." It really is of very little concern to me, but some people seem to have the notion that it somehow matters WHERE a post is displayed. So, please move anything I ever post to wherever you think it would be best represented.

I simply avoided the 'EndTimes" Muck Hole because the entire book I quoted from is very much in opposition to all the Rapture Fever (The actual name of the book) and EndTimes hype.

 

[reba]

Thanks beings your topic is 666 the ET fans might enjoy it..

 

[Willie T]

Thanks beings your topic is 666 the ET fans might enjoy it..

Yeah, my wife just explained your POV to me.

 

[Chopper]

This is but a small excerpt from a 25 year-old book I have on my computer.

False Prophecies for Fun and Profit​

Those Christians who believe that we are drawing close to the last days are continually trying to identify both the Beast and the Antichrist. This game of "find the Beast and identify the Antichrist” has become the adult Christians' version of the child's game of pin the tail on the donkey. Every few years, the participants place blindfolds over their eyes, turn around six times, and march toward the wall. Sometimes they march out the door and over a cliff, as was the case with Edgar C. Whisenant, whose best-selling two-part book announced in the summer of 1988 that Jesus would surely appear to rapture His Church during Rosh Hashanah week in mid-September. Half the book was called On Borrowed Time. The other was more aptly titled, 88 Reasons why the Rapture is in 1988. I can think of one key argument why his book's thesis was incorrect: no Rapture so far, and it is now February, 1993. (February, 2018, as of this editing) So much for all 88 arguments. The anti-Christian world got another great laugh at the expense of millions of fundamentalists who had bought and read his two-part book. The story of Mr. Whisenant's book was front-page news briefly around the U.S. Mr. Whisenant is now ancient history, one more forgotten laughingstock who brought reproach to the Church of Jesus Christ while he gained his brief moment of fame. But replacements will surely follow.

This is the whole problem. The victims self-consciously forget the last self-proclaimed expert in Bible prophecy whose predictions did not come to pass. They never learn to recognize the next false prophet because they refuse to admit to themselves that they had been suckered by the last one. Thus, this sucker's game has been going on throughout the twentieth century, generation after generation, a pathetic story chronicled superbly by Dwight Wilson in his well-documented book, Armageddon Now!, a book that was not regularly assigned to students at Dallas Seminary, I can assure you. Again and again, some prominent world political figure has been identified as either the Beast or the Antichrist: Lenin, Mussolini, Hider, Stalin, and even Henry Kissinger. (It was President Reagan's good fortune that he was a conservative so beloved by fundamentalists, given the remarkable structure of his name: Ronald [6] Wilson [6] Reagan [6].)

Good one my old friend Willie. A lot happened last year that pointed to the Rapture but NOT YET BOYS! Now the "Watchers" are sure that 2018 is the year, we'll see. All I can say is, keep you're eye on Israel and the Middle East.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Thanks beings your topic is 666 the ET fans might enjoy it..

LOL! When I first read that I thought of "ET phone home." And I'm like even though I'm a pretty big ET fan I'm like what does he have to do with this? (maybe because they're both supernatural?) Then I realize that you meant End Times LOL Thanks for cheering me up a bit. I had a hard day and I really needed that laugh.

 

[Willie T]

Good one my old friend Willie. A lot happened last year that pointed to the Rapture but NOT YET BOYS! Now the "Watchers" are sure that 2018 is the year, we'll see. All I can say is, keep you're eye on Israel and the Middle East.

What I got a kick about the most was ALL the predictions the book lists (there are tons!) that never came true ——— and that was 25 years ago. Just imagine how many more hundreds of predictions have been made since then. And not a single one of them has come true, either....... yet millions of people come clamoring to swallow each new one as it comes out, totally forgetting the last one that just made all Christianity look like idiots.

 

[Count Duckula]

 

[Chopper]

What I got a kick about the most was ALL the predictions the book lists (there are tons!) that never came true ——— and that was 25 years ago. Just imagine how many more hundreds of predictions have been made since then. And not a single one of them has come true, either....... yet millions of people come clamoring to swallow each new one as it comes out, totally forgetting the last one that just made all Christianity look like idiots.

It's like the Saturday morning cartoons when I was a kid growing up. Funny, funny funny. My Hebrew teacher says "it could be" as he looks over what some of his trusted "watchers" have to say. He'll either say maybe, it could be, or no. He refuses to pick a date because Scripture is against that.

 

[New Day Coming]

I was just pondering this thread and thinking about ISIS... The captives who were executed seemed so passive at the moment it happened. It turned out that they had been dragged out with a knife at their throats a dozen times before and each time, returned back to their confinement.

I certainly believe many "Rapture Watchers" have jumped the gun, from the Millerites onwards. On the other hand, as the ISIS example demonstrates, past experiences are no predictor of future events. It is tempting to cast a wry, knowing glance at those watching for the "Blessed Hope" and roll back over to sleep, but I believe we are advised against such a stance...

 

[Willie T]

I was just pondering this thread and thinking about ISIS... The captives who were executed seemed so passive at the moment it happened. It turned out that they had been dragged out with a knife at their throats a dozen times before and each time, returned back to their confinement.

I certainly believe many "Rapture Watchers" have jumped the gun, from the Millerites onwards. On the other hand, as the ISIS example demonstrates, past experiences are no predictor of future events. It is tempting to cast a wry, knowing glance at those watching for the "Blessed Hope" and roll back over to sleep, but I believe we are advised against such a stance...

This is but one reason we need to quit making millionaires of the Rapture Fanatics who write a new Doomsday Book every year. The Bible is pretty clear that no one knows when Jesus will return.

 

[reba]

I remember the talk about putting it on the credit card then never having to pay the bill.. real Godly right

 

[Willie T]

I remember the talk about putting it on the credit card then never having to pay the bill.. real Godly right

To me, that is the really sad, and even frightening, part of the Rapture belief...... that there is no real point in planning on, and working toward, making the world our great-grandchildren will live in a predominately Christian one by spreading the gospel of the kingdom. And doing it today and tomorrow.

 

[reba]

You and i are about the same age... Growing up in a Pentecostal home i remember the big stir in the mid 50s, about rapture cause it was 7 years after Israel became state. Yes very sad. Hearing mom and dad talking about not needing higher ed for my younger brothers because of rapture...Us girls if 'the Lord tarried ' would get married.. We dont need Christians in politics He is coming soon. Really sad to reflect on... Then the Suez canal it starts all over again.. The bay of pigs wwwlll HE IS comming soon.. ...
Thankfully some where in the 70s My preacher dad starting seeing some things differently and quit that nonsense

 

[Willie T]

You and i are about the same age... Growing up in a Pentecostal home i remember the big stir in the mid 50s, about rapture cause it was 7 years after Israel became state. Yes very sad. Hearing mom and dad talking about not needing higher ed for my younger brothers because of rapture...Us girls if 'the Lord tarried ' would get married.. We dont need Christians in politics He is coming soon. Really sad to reflect on... Then the Suez canal it starts all over again.. The bay of pigs wwwlll HE IS comming soon.. ...
Thankfully some where in the 70s My preacher dad starting seeing some things differently and quit that nonsense

This Forum Room doesn't allow "LIKES"......... so, "LIKE"

 

[Runner]

Regardless of whether one thinks that Revelation has end-times significance, there is no question that it was written to and had contemporary significance for the First Century community of believers. There is also no question that the First Century interpretation of 666 would have been Nero. He was indeed a beast. This is a really excellent short article about Nero in general and specifically about the identification of 666 with his name: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/gladiators/nero.html.

If one thinks that Revelation in general and 666 in particular has end-times significance, then all bets are off as to what 666 might mean. A Russian Orthodox theologian whom I happen to be reading relates it back to the gold in 2 Kings 9:14 and suggests it refers to "the Biblical symbol of mammon - the kingdom of earthly abundance, glory and might." He further states that "The number 666 in Hebrew corresponds to the phrase 'cha-melek-le-israel,' which means "the king of the Israelites." (Alexei Osipov, The Search for Truth On the Path of Reason). If 666 has end-times significance, I doubt seriously that the author intended it to set off the guessing frenzy that it has. I personally believe he meant Nero and nothing else.

It's like the Saturday morning cartoons when I was a kid growing up. Funny, funny funny. My Hebrew teacher says "it could be" as he looks over what some of his trusted "watchers" have to say. He'll either say maybe, it could be, or no. He refuses to pick a date because Scripture is against that.

Here are a couple of Horvath videos, one from 2009 and one from 2011, in which he clearly and unequivocally (and correctly) states that Revelation was originally written in Greek and that 666 refers to "a certain man" rather than an organization or some other concept:

(2009)

(2011)

Now, however, he states that "All the Father's Word, from Genesis all the way through Revelation, was breathed into existence by His Holy Spirit - His Ruach ha Qodesh - and written down by His Spirit-filled, inspired and chosen servants ... in Aramaic/Hebrew." http://erfministries.com/blog_heb1.php

He has also shifted to from his former view that the Antichrist would arise out of the European Union to a view that the Antichrist either "is" Islam or "arises" out of Islam. He states that he fully endorses the views of Walid Shoebat:

.
Shoebat insists that 666 is not a name but a "creed" (Islam) and that 666 is to be interpreted as "Allah" in Arabic:

I'm not criticizing - I admire high-quality tap-dancing - but clearly Horvath invents his "theology" on the fly. I truly hope, because you seem to be very sincere, that you will pray for discernment in your dealings with him.

 

[New Day Coming]

Not wishing to inflame a forum disagreement but the excesses and mistakes of a particular theological perspective don't invalidate it...

Otherwise you would abandon praying for the sick because of TV preachers, avoid evangelism to make sure no one made shallow "decisions" or even avoid good works in case you were accused of following a "works based Gospel".

What is true is true, despite what men may do to bend that truth. I'm not saying this to stand up for any particular end-times theology but to point out that we should be self-critical in the way we arrive at our positions.

God bless

 

[Chopper]

Regardless of whether one thinks that Revelation has end-times significance, there is no question that it was written to and had contemporary significance for the First Century community of believers. There is also no question that the First Century interpretation of 666 would have been Nero. He was indeed a beast. This is a really excellent short article about Nero in general and specifically about the identification of 666 with his name: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/gladiators/nero.html.

If one thinks that Revelation in general and 666 in particular has end-times significance, then all bets are off as to what 666 might mean. A Russian Orthodox theologian whom I happen to be reading relates it back to the gold in 2 Kings 9:14 and suggests it refers to "the Biblical symbol of mammon - the kingdom of earthly abundance, glory and might." He further states that "The number 666 in Hebrew corresponds to the phrase 'cha-melek-le-israel,' which means "the king of the Israelites." (Alexei Osipov, The Search for Truth On the Path of Reason). If 666 has end-times significance, I doubt seriously that the author intended it to set off the guessing frenzy that it has. I personally believe he meant Nero and nothing else.



Here are a couple of Horvath videos, one from 2009 and one from 2011, in which he clearly and unequivocally (and correctly) states that Revelation was originally written in Greek and that 666 refers to "a certain man" rather than an organization or some other concept:

(2009)

(2011)

Now, however, he states that "All the Father's Word, from Genesis all the way through Revelation, was breathed into existence by His Holy Spirit - His Ruach ha Qodesh - and written down by His Spirit-filled, inspired and chosen servants ... in Aramaic/Hebrew." http://erfministries.com/blog_heb1.php

He has also shifted to from his former view that the Antichrist would arise out of the European Union to a view that the Antichrist either "is" Islam or "arises" out of Islam. He states that he fully endorses the views of Walid Shoebat:

.
Shoebat insists that 666 is not a name but a "creed" (Islam) and that 666 is to be interpreted as "Allah" in Arabic:

I'm not criticizing - I admire high-quality tap-dancing - but clearly Horvath invents his "theology" on the fly. I truly hope, because you seem to be very sincere, that you will pray for discernment in your dealings with him.

Alan has changed his theology as time goes on. As he researches new information, takes it to Elohim for better understanding understanding, yes he has changed what he's teaching. My hat is off to him because he's man enough to apologize and explain why he's changed.

You'd have to watch up to date videos instead of picking apart teachings in the early 2000s.

 

[New Day Coming]

Alan has changed his theology as time goes on. As he researches new information, takes it to Elohim for better understanding understanding, yes he has changed what he's teaching. My hat is off to him because he's man enough to apologize and explain why he's changed.

You'd have to watch up to date videos instead of picking apart teachings in the early 2000s.

I quite like Alan myself, even if I get a bit lost on the Hebrew words ;-)