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Antichrist, Babylon of Rev.13,17 explain most history & 9/11

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Astoundingly, there are approximately forty cities on "seven hills" (Rev. 17:9), & many of them exceedingly resemble "Babylon the great whore" of Revelation 17-18 which is described as both a "woman" & "the great city," and who commits adultery against God, as opposed to the bride of Christ mentioned immediately afterward in Rev. 19! No wonder 17:9 calls special attention to the fact that Babylon is on seven hills by saying "here is the mind that has wisdom." These many cities on seven hills include (which are all discussed thoroughly on my website):

-the source & headquarters of the anti-Christ world religions including but not limited to Judaism, Orthodoxy, Islam, Buddhism, & Hinduism: Jerusalem, Constantinople/Byzantium/Istanbul & Moscow, Mecca in Saudi Arabia which is the most visited pilgrimage city of Islam, Macau in China where about 93% of the population is Buddhist & which is the home of the Chinese Buddhist Communities Project "to make an important contribution to the cause of interreligious dialogue worldwide" & of the "Centre of Buddhist Studies," and Tirumala in India which is home to a Hindu temple "visited by about 60,000 people daily, making it the second most visited holy place after the Vatican in Rome"

-Hollywood (sometimes called "Hollywood Babylon"), whose "Hollywood Hills" has seven hills, and which is home to many women like Madonna & Britney Spears who resemble the great harlot of whose wine "all the nations drink"
-Seattle the most irreligious city in the U.S., San Francisco (called "Babylon by the Bay") where the Church of Satan was founded in 1966

-New York City: Manhattan means "island of many hills" (due to its many hills such as "Murray Hill") as well as "whiskey" (& Babylon the great whore is said in 17:2 to make the nations "drunk"!);
---apparently the only town in the world officially called Babylon is in Long Island, New York, in the suburbs of New York City, which is the home of the Amityville Horror, the most famous of all haunted places as Babylon the Great which is "the habitation of devils" [Rev. 18:2];
---the headquarters of the worldwide Church of Satan from 2001-present, formerly centered in San Francisco "the city on seven hills"!!! and of the United Nations which "reigneth over the kings of the Earth" (17:18)
---There are only seven neighborhoods with the word "hill" in EACH of these boroughs of New York City: Manhattan, Staten Island, Queens, Brooklyn;
---Furthermore, there are many echoes of 9/11 in the Bible in connection with Babylon: for instance, all the merchants of the world weep in Revelation 18 (which is 9x2) beginning in verse 11 because Babylon the/a center of world trade has "fallen"; and the destruction of the Tower of Babylon at a time when there is a global language like English is today is mentioned only in the first 9 verses of Genesis 11.
---Furthermore, there are many uncommon resemblances between the Statue of "Liberty Enlightening the World" & both Jesus "the light of the world" (as Satan says "I will be like the most High" in Is. 14:14) and the whore of Babylon.
 
The seven hills are also seven kings. Take that into account and it might narrow down the alternatives somewhat.
 
Yes they represent seven kings. However, you have not invalidated any of my alternatives which I know are correct, for they have been validated about forty different times by each of the cities built on seven hills!!!! Be amazed at God's infinite power & wisdom. Revelation 17-18 applies to VERY MANY different things perfectly, which is why it causes John in Ch. 17 to "wonder with exceeding wonder," and the discovery I revealed is therefore very important for evangelizing the world because Jesus said "ye will in no wise believe unless you see many signs & wonders." (John 4:48) If you look up interpretations of who the whore of Babylon is, you will see that pretty much every one of them is included under my interpretation: some say it is Vatican City, others say Mecca, others say New York City, others say Hilary Clinton "the queen" of New York City who has fornicated with Bill Clinton a type of the Antichrist, others say Sarah Palin the former beauty queen who has fornicated with John McCain ("son of Cain") another type of the Antichrist, etc. The astounding thing is, as I show at great length on my website, that they are all right, for the whore is not by accident described as both "a great city" and a "woman"! The woman is the personification of the city!
 
I have a very specific reason for responding to this thread which I will share. I stronly believe that we should ALWAYS interpret scripture with scripture. To do otherwise will only lead to error in the understanding of God's Word. To say that NY or any other of the cities mentioned are Mystery Babylon is basing it not on scripture, but on news papers. Now let me tell you why I believe that it is the literal city of Babylon that will be destroyed.

Let's first consider the passage that speaks of "Mystery Babylon". We read in Rev. 17:3-5, "So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH".

It seems that most assume that the mystery associated with the woman who represents the great city is which city she represents. It is imperative that we understand exactly what the mystery was that was associated with this woman.

Verses 3-5, quoted above, tell us that John saw a woman sitting on a beast. In verse 7 the angel said to John, "I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her.....". Verses 8-17 reveal the meaning of the mystery of the beast, and verse 18 reveals the mystery of the woman herself. We read in that verse, "and the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth". The mystery associated with the great city is not which city the woman represents, it is that the city reigns over the kings of the earth. If the mystery was which city the woman represented, the angel would have revealed the name when he revealed the mystery in verse 18. But he did not, he revealed the fact that the woman represents a city that reigns over the kings of the earth. Again, the mystery is not which city the woman represents, the mystery is that the city she represents "reigneth over the kings of the earth".

The upper case letters in the woman's name as given in the KJV are not, of course, part of the Greek manuscript, they are the interpretation by the translators. The phrase "the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth" is a description, not a name. I suggest therefore, that that phrase not be included in the name of the woman. But what about the word "mystery", is that part of her name? It might be helpful to note that the NASB has in verse 5, "and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, BABYLON THE GREAT........". But let us get the answer to our question from Scriptures themselves rather than any one particular translation.

If we include the word "mystery" in the woman's name, it implies that it is the city itself that is a mystery or secret. That is to say, the phrase "Mystery Babylon" implies that the woman does not represent Babylon itself, but that "Babylon" is put for some other city. But as we learned in Rev. 17:18, the mystery is not which city she represents, but that she will reign over the kings of the earth. Therefore, I believe that the phrase "Mystery Babylon" as it appears in the KJV is quite misleading and that the word "mystery" should not be included in the woman's name.

If we leave off the word mystery, which is not part of her name, and we leave off the description "the mother of harlots and abomination of the earth" we have the woman's name as "BABYLON THE GREAT". So the woman's name that will appear upon her forehead will be "BABYLON THE GREAT". And the mystery as to what the woman represents is that the great city will reign over the kings of the earth.

The point of all this is to show that there is no Scriptural reason to say that the woman, whose name is "BABYLON THE GREAT" is any city other than Babylon. We are told her name and we are told the mystery surrounding her. Neither includes any hint of any other city. Further, if we do see this woman as representing another city we have a woman representing a city which represents a different city. That makes no sense. In short, I believe that the woman represents the city of Babylon.

But there is even more evidence that the great city that will be destroyed in the day of the Lord is Babylon. We read in Rev. 18:10, "....Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that great city! for in one hour is thy judgment come". And in verse 17 of that same chapter we read, "For in one hour so great riches is come to nought.....". And again in verse 19 we read, "Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate".

Now let us compare this with some Old Testament prophecies concerning Babylon. We will consider Is. 47:8-11 "Therefore hear now this.....that sayest in thine heart...... 'I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children'. But these two things shall come to thee in a moment in one day, the loss of children, and widowhood: they shall come upon thee in their perfection for the multitude of thy sorceries, and for the great abundance of thine enchantments. .........Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not know from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall upon thee; thou shalt not be able to put it off: and desolation shall come upon thee suddenly, which thou shalt not know".

This prophecy has not been fulfilled. Ancient Babylon did fall into ruins, but certainly not suddenly, in one day. If we attribute the punishment of Babylon in "one hour" (Rev. 18:10, 17, and 19) to any other city we have an unfulfilled prophecy.

My point is when we go to newspapers to interpret the Word of God instead of the Word of God itself, that puts the level of accurateness of news papers on a par with the Bible. We really don't want to do that, do we?

In Christ,

Joyce
 
Dear Joyce,

The word "mystery" implies something concealed. But, since the fact that Babylon will "reign over the kings of the earth" is NOT concealed, I see no reason to call this fact the "mystery." Therefore, I conclude that the mystery refers to the names represented by Babylon. A great mystery indeed is concealed in that verse, because Babylon does not represent just one city, as my website thoroughly shows.

The literal Babylon (Iraq) fits or in the past has fit the description of "Mystery Babylon" indeed, but there is no reason to make your interpretation that narrow given the overwhelming evidence I present. The "Babylon" in Isaiah 47 has a metaphorical meaning as well, so my interpretation does not leave an unfulfilled prophecy in this case as you claim. Furthermore, nowhere in Scripture does God tell you to not use the newspaper (which I did not use actually; I relied wholly on the Internet and on my past knowledge) to help interpret Scripture. Rather, the Bible must be the lens through which we view the world if we are to understand it.

God bless you,
George
 
Hi George,

I did read much of your web-site and there are many good things there. But since I believe that Scripture must always be interpreted by Scripture, I will share a few more reasons for that belief.

1) In your web-site you include Jerusalem as on of the cities represented by the woman of Rev. 17-18. But we read in Ezek. 5:9 reads, "And I will do in thee that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like". The context will show that this verse has to do with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar. But please note, God said the He would "not do any more the like". In other words, we read here God's promise that He will never again destroy Jerusalem. It is clear however, that mystery Babylon will indeed be destroyed by God. This verse alone should prove that Jerusalem is not mystery Babylon. And this verse alone should prove the fact that if we do not always uses scripture to interpret scripture, we will be in error in our understanding of His holy Word.

2) You wrote that the Bible does not tell us not use newspapers. Neither does it tell us to not go to X rated movies. Does that mean that God allows that?

3) When Paul commended the Bereans because they "were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so".

4) You wrote that "the Bible must be the lens through which we view the world if we are to understand it". And yet on your web-site you quote the scripture that tells us that God's kingdom is not of this world. If the God's kingdom is not of this world (and I agree, it is not) then why would God give us the Bible to be "the lens" by which we "are to understand it". That seems inconsistent to me. I believe God gave us His Word in order that we might understand Him and His plans, not the world.

5) You wrote, "The "Babylon" in Isaiah 47 has a metaphorical meaning". A metaphor is figure of speech used to enhance the meaning of a passage. There are metaphors in this passage, but they do not change the city from Babylon. For example, we read n verse 1, "Come down, and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon". Here the the metaphor of a virgin is used (ironically, I might add-another figure of speech) for Babylon. It enhances the point of her being a harlot as in Rev. 17. In other words, yes, there are metaphors in Is. 47, but they do not change Babylon into another city.

6) You wrote that a "Mystery implies something concealed but there is no reason to make your interpretation that narrow given the overwhelming evidence I present. Here is another inconsistency. That is to say, you wrote that part of the mystery revealed in Rev. 17 is that the city is on 7 hills, which represent 7 kings. If you did not see that as a mystery you couldn't say that these 40 cities are the subject of this passage.

In other words, the mystery was revealed, but that doesn't mean that had not been a mystery. Take for example the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven revealed by the parables of our Lord. He called them mysteries, even though He did reveal them to His apostles. So too, the mystery of rev. 17 was a mystery even though they wre revealed to John.

And as for the "proof" on your web-site, they do not come from the Word of God and furthermore, in the case of Jerusalem it contradicts the Word of God (see number 1 above).

7) Then you wrote, "Therefore, I conclude that the mystery refers to the names represented by Babylon. " How then do you account for the fact that John was told that the mystery was not which city the woman represent but that Babylon would reign over the kings of the earth? Are you saying that John was given the wrong information?

8) It seems that in your effort to prove the veracity of your web-site you are saying that the inter-net is on the same level of as accuracy as is the Word of God. Surely that cannot be the case. And if it is not the case, all your inter-net facts may or may not be accurate. But when we interpret scripture with scripture we don't have that problem. We know that everything in the Bible is absolutely accurate because the Bible is God-breathed.

In Christ,

Joyce
 
The key to understanding, is to identify Babylon. If you remember your Bible ancient Babylon, or at the tower of Babel, the idea was rebellion against Gods authority. This is the spirit of Babylon, that is at the heart of this present world.

The Harlot, is that city that killed all the prophets, and saints. This is the seat of the Antichrists rule. It is also connected to Religious authority that supports the beast, the beginning of which was the mother of all Harlots.

Now Babylon is not a single city but a Spirit. The city of his seat is the mother of ALL the other Harlots, that is religion that has played the Harlot with the world, rejecting Gods authority. Add this all up, and you have your answer.

The seven hills are the accumulation of the six world powers that have gone before, including the final, and seventh. The harlot is the eight, setting atop the other seven, or the kingdom of the beast. Which the final or seventh world power, becomes the eighth.
 
The readers on Revelation in the first century would have no clue concerning cities like NYC. LA, etc. that were so far in the future.

Jerusalem, it's inhabitants (which were responsible for the death of prophets, believers and martyrs for Jesus) and the seven Rulers of Jerusalem up to the point of Revelation's writing are all involved in this prophecy. No need to look any farther than Scripture.

Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
 
vic C. said:
Heh, dyed in the wool SDA. ;) You could be right;

Indeed.

we both could be right. :biggrin

Not likely. :biglaugh

The Bible interprets itself. I noticed the person that started this thread completely left out Daniel.

The Good News in the Bible

The Seven-headed Beast of Revelation 12, 13, and 17
William Diehl

The question of the identity of the Seven Heads of the Beast of Revelation 12, 13 and Revelation 17 is one the issues that has caused a lot of discussion among evangelical Christians today.

1.) The Seven-headed Beast with ten horns is the Roman Empire. Satan is the power behind this seven-headed dragon-beast which persecutes the church throughout her earthly sojourn of symbolic "1260 days". The fall of the pagan Roman Empire is symbolized in Revelation 13 as its having received a "deadly wound". The deadly wound is "healed" however and from the ashes of the Imperial Roman Empire arises Papal Rome which is an "image" or pseudo-Christian duplicate of the pagan Roman Empire. The "pontiffs" of Imperial Rome were replaced by the "pontiffs" of Papal Rome. Now Papal Rome sits upon the seven hills of Rome and pompously claims to rule the Christian church from its Vatican Papal throne as the so-called "Vicar of the Son of God". (VICARIVS FILII DEI = 666)

2.) The lamb-like Beast is the "False Prophet", the apostate Roman papacy that heals the deadly wound that Pagan Rome receives in the collapse of the Empire. Thus Pagan Rome lives on as Papal Rome due to the ability of the "False Prophet", the lamb-like Beast, to breathe life back into Imperial Rome and causes all the world to worship the Roman Beast again, but now as Papal Rome. Make no mistake, the religion of Pagan Rome is the same religion as Papal Rome. The religion and gods of Pagan Rome came from the ancient Babylonian worship of Nimrod and Semaramis. The lamb-like Beast of the apostate Roman papacy has erected an exact duplicate or image to the first Beast of Rev 13:1.

3.) Now to come to Rev 17 and the Seven-headed Beast with ten horns and the Woman who is sitting on the Beast. This woman is the "Woman with the Cup" as she was universally understood in John's day as being Venus the promiscuous goddess of "love" (fornication and prostitution through her temple prostitutes) and "wrath" who drank the blood of her enemies from her cup. More can be said of the proof of her identity from the literature of Roman mythology at another time, however the worship of this woman by Pagan Rome was taken into the apostasy of Papal Rome as the Virgin Mary cultus with her vestal virgins, the celibate nuns.

Every teaching and "Mystery" that Pagan Rome embraced re-appeared in Papal Rome but with "Christian" terminology. Thus the "Image to the Beast", Papal Rome, is actually a worship of the "Queen of Heaven"â€â€Venus, Semaramis, Diana, or Isis and all the other gods of Rome in the form of the "canonized" Virgin Mary and the "Saints" who comprise the new Papal Roman pantheon of mini-gods to intercede for worshippers.

4.) The seven mountains or hillsâ€â€Rome was universally recognized to have been built on the Seven Hills of Romulus. Rome is the city which rules over all the world (Rev 17:18)

5.) The seven heads symbolize the kings of Rome, the Caesars, who ruled Rome in John's day until the fall of the Empire. (these are the powers that were "restraining" the manifestation of the "Man of Sin" which Paul refers to in 2 Thes 2). The meaning of the apocalyptic phrase "five have fallen, one is, and the other is yet to come" is a symbolic way to tell the apostle John that the reign of the Caesars is about to end, but there are still a few more Caesars to come in the future before they are "taken out of the way" (2 Thes 2:7) and replaced by the "eighth head"â€â€the False Prophetâ€â€Papal Rome.

6.) After the Caesars are taken out of the way, the "ten horns" or divisions into which the Roman Empire was divided must reign and give their power to the "False Prophet", the Papacyâ€â€the "eighth" head. But eventually the people who have been made drunken by the "wine" of her false teachings will turn upon this "harlot", Papal Rome, and will withdraw their loyalty to her and help effect her physical fall at the end of the age. This spiritual fall is brought about by the "loud cry" of the Angel of Rev 18 which is the giving of the Gospel to all the world in the Judgment Hour setting, warning all to "come out of her my people". This restoration of the Gospel message (Daniel 8:14) which was begun with the Protestant Reformation and which is being completed today will lighten the entire Earth with the brightness of its glory.

The final proclamation of the Gospel of justification by faith alone in Christ's imputed righteousness will effect the spiritual fall of Babylon by "drying up the River Euphrates". In the Judgment Hour all will be judged by the holy Law of God, but justified by faith alone in the imputed righteousness of our Lord Jesus Christ. This message will be finally given in the latter rain power of the Holy Spirit and the end of Babylon and the world will come.

Even so come quickly Lord Jesus. Amen
 
RND, who's William Diehl?

I find myself disagreeing with the false prophet and image to the beast part. Is that just me or has the teaching and understanding since of old been updated? Or does that just show that there are more than one way to skin a cat so to speak. I can see how the interpretation fits quite neatly, except for the 'out of the earth' description for the lamb- like beast.
Also the 7 heads . I see them as Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome,(localised secular empires) Papal-Rome, Atheism/communism, Apostate protestantism, and papal Rome reborn(the8th but of the 7) (global spiritual powers.) Thoughts?
 
brakelite2 said:
RND, who's William Diehl?
Good question... lets go look him up.

4.) The seven mountains or hillsâ€â€Rome was universally recognized to have been built on the Seven Hills of Romulus. Rome is the city which rules over all the world (Rev 17:18)
Don't orget that it's not Rome, but the Vatican that is the "home" of the RCC and the Pope. Geographically, the Vatican is outside of Rome and it's "seven hills".

I wish I could find my photo of an ancient map showing Jerusalem, the seven hills and their names.
 
brakelite2 said:
RND, who's William Diehl?

He's a former Seventh-day Adventist that runs a monthly publication called the Present Truth.

I find myself disagreeing with the false prophet and image to the beast part. Is that just me or has the teaching and understanding since of old been updated? Or does that just show that there are more than one way to skin a cat so to speak. I can see how the interpretation fits quite neatly, except for the 'out of the earth' description for the lamb- like beast.

Hey that's fine. I'm not here to change minds. Just correct obvious error and point out facts I think are relevant. But I do find it interesting that you find some agreement regarding the identity of the "lamb-like" beast.

Now, if we simply take that a bit further we can see that Rome has a "Capitoline Hill" the U.S. has a "Capitol Hill." Capitoline was the ancient temple of Jupiter at Rome, on the Capitoline.

Also the 7 heads . I see them as Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome,(localised secular empires) Papal-Rome, Atheism/communism, Apostate protestantism, and papal Rome reborn(the8th but of the 7) (global spiritual powers.) Thoughts?

Yeah, I think you may have something there. Some attribute them to the 7 Popes that have held the office since 1929 when Mussolini restored the church to state power but I too see them more as a representation of some sort of "temporal power."
 
Hey Vic don't you find it somewhat interesting that the Papacy has a compound in Jerusalem?

torvinen4.jpg


NotreDame1.jpg
 
RND & Vic C. are both completely correct in identifying Rome & Jerusalem with Mystery Babylon. (Vic C., Vatican City nevertheless is part of Rome which sits on seven hills.) HOWEVER, this interpretation of Mystery Babylon is FAR too narrow. As I showed in part in my first post, Mystery Babylon represents:
1) "great cities" which have fallen like Ancient Athens on seven hills & pagan Rome on seven hills; and ones which still exist like NYC & Hollywood & many more
2) "great nations" ("polis" can refer to more than one city, as in the words megapolis, decapolis [10 cities], etc.; its root meaning is "many [people united]") which have fallen like the Soviet Union & the Roman Empire; and ones which stand like the United States & Iraq (where Babylon was found).
3) the great ships which "sit on many waters" & have fallen, including the Titanic, the Olympic, & the Brittanic (originally "the Gigantic"); and the Lusitania whose sinking by a German submarine helped spark World War I & which resembled the Titanic. God hinted at this fact by causing Titanic to gross almost $2,000,000,000 among all the nations of the world, more than any other movie in history.
4) great women who are associated with Rome, Athens, NYC, Hollywood (ex. Britney Spears, Madonna the "Queen of Pop" [the name of the paganized Virgin Mary "Queen of Heaven"]) who have fornicated with types of the Antichrist including many actors who have played God &/or Satan (ex. Willem Dafoe who fornicated with Madonna)

Please look at my site for more amazing "wonders" to be better equipped to expand God's kingdom , for Jesus says "ye will in no wise believe unless ye see great signs & wonders." (John 4:48)
 
...Vatican City nevertheless is part of Rome which sits on seven hills...

Vatican City is NOT part of Rome. It is a sovereign nation.

As for the Antichrist, the Antichrist is mentioned by name in only four verses of Scripture: 1 John 2:18, 22, 4:3, and 2 John 7. There are other verses that many people link to the Antichrist, but since he isn’t named in them, the connection is not certain. The four Johanine verses must serve as the core of our knowledge before trying to link other verses to them.

In 1 John 2:18–19, we read, "Children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come; therefore we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out, that it might be plain that they all are not of us."

This passage appears to speak of a major individual Antichrist, as well as many minor individual Antichrists, who apparently are apostate Christians for "they went out from us." The appearance of the individual Antichrist is yet future ("Antichrist is coming"), but the presence of the many Antichrists is a signal that "it is the last hour."

In 1 John 2:22–23, we read, "Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also."

This is consistent with the apostate nature of the many Antichrists, for they have "deny[ied] that Jesus is the Christ" and, in denying the Son, they have implicitly denied the Father. Presumably the same would be true of the individual Antichrist.

1 John 4:1–6 gives practical tests for discerning which spirits bearing revelation are from God and which are not. In John 4:3, we read that "every spirit which does not confess Jesus is not of God. This is the spirit of Antichrist, of which you heard that it was coming, and now it is in the world already."

This shows that the Antichrist movement is inspired by spirits bearing false revelation and that refuse to confess Jesus. This movement had begun in John’s day but would grow afterward.

Finally, in 2 John 7, we read, "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, men who will not acknowledge the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh; such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist."

This clarifies the specific deception being perpetrated by the spirit of Antichrist and its human collaborator, suggesting that it involves a denial of the coming of Jesus in the flesh. This could be construed in one of several ways: (1) that Jesus was a mere man and not God Incarnate (as in the early heresy known as Ebionism), (2) that the humanity of Jesus was only an illusion (as in the early heresy known as Docetism), or (3) that Jesus was not the Messiah (as in non-Christian Judaism).


The four passages given above are all that the New Testament has to say about the Antichristâ€â€at least under that name. But many have identified the Antichrist with the beast from the sea in Revelation 13 or with the "man of lawlessness" that Paul mentions in 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

These identifications are reasonable, but must be understood with some nuance. The beast from the sea that John speaks of in Revelation is best understood in its initial, literal fulfillment as one of the early Roman emperors (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church 2113 on the past fulfillment of this prophecy). Yet, there are often multiple fulfillments of a single prophecy, and the beast may also point forward to an individual at the end of time who will be very much like the early Roman emperors.

Such an individual is easy to identify with Paul’s "man of lawlessness," for he appears to be a still-future individual who does things like the Roman emperors. Paul states that he will one day manifest himself in the temple of Godâ€â€which to a first-century Jew would mean the Jewish temple in Jerusalemâ€â€and demand to be worshiped as a god.

This is related to things the Roman emperors did, such as when Caligulaâ€â€after he began claiming to be a godâ€â€attempted to have an image of himself put in the Jerusalem temple. This plan was narrowly averted.

Since the many Antichrists are identifiable as apostate Christians, the future, individual Antichrist may also be an apostate Christian or from an apostate family, people, or nation (i.e., that used to be Christian but by then will not be).

This is a point of difference between the Antichrist and the original, literal fulfillment of the beast (the early Roman emperors were not apostate Christians). But it is not a hindrance to identifying the future, individual Antichrist with the future man of lawlessness or a future fulfillment of the beast from the sea, since future emperor-like individuals may have a personal, familial, or national Christian background.

The Church Fathers displayed significant interest in the Antichrist, whom they commonly identified with the man of lawlessness. They understood him to be a political ruler who would oppose the Church, rebuild the temple in Jerusalem, and then demand to be worshiped as a god. At times he was understood to be a person of Jewish ancestry, from the now-lost tribe of Dan.

The details of how Antichrist is to be understood vary from Father to Father, meaning that there is no infallible consensus regarding the matter and some matters are quite speculative. For example, the identification of the Antichrist as coming from the tribe of Dan is extremely slight in Scripture, being based on Genesis 49:17 and on the absence of Dan in the list of tribes in Revelation 7:4–8; the Antichrist is mentioned in neither passage.

Throughout history there have been a large number of individuals who have been identified as potential Antichrists, and such they may have been, though none has been the final persecutor of Church history. The record of inaccurate attempts to identify the Antichrist reveal the extreme caution that needs to be exercised in such matters.

The Catechism explains simply that there will be a "supreme religious deception" before the second coming of Christ and that the supreme form of this deception is that of the Antichrist, who will bring "a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh" (CCC 675).

This deception has precursors in our own time. These precursors appear "every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgement" (CCC 676), including "the intrinsically perverse political form of a secular messianism" (ibid.) that was displayed by twentieth-century movements such as Nazism and Communism.

The deception of the Antichrist will lead to the final crisis of the Church, which will be persecuted almost to the point of extinction and thus will "follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection," only to be saved by the second coming of Christ (CCC 677).

Opponents of the Catholic faith have often depicted the pope as the Antichrist. This was a psychological necessity for the early Protestant leaders because they were in the process of breaking away from what their contemporaries universally recognized as the authentic Church of Christ, governed by the authentic Vicar of Christ. Since breaking with such a body is inconceivable to any one determined to follow Christ’s will, it was necessary for Protestant leaders to deny that the Catholic Church and the pope were these things.

The recognition of the Catholic Church as the one Christ established was so strongâ€â€given its centuries of existence, its ubiquity in Europe, and the absence of any plausible rival in tracing its roots back to Christâ€â€that it created severe cognitive dissonance that Protestant leaders had to find ways to overcome. "If it’s not the Bride of Christ then what is it? How can it be explained otherwise?" would be logical questions.

Protestant leaders cast about in Scripture for alternative explanations for a large, false religious system expected to exist during the Christian age. They chose the religious system associated with the beast from Revelation, whom they identified as the Antichrist. They further identified this religious system with the Whore of Babylon, who in Revelation is in contrast to the Church, the Bride of Christ.

They thus came to portray the Church as the Whore of Babylon and the pope as the beast/Antichrist. Only in such a way could breaking away from what everyone recognized as the true Church of Christ be psychologically justified.

The difficulty with the papal Antichrist theory is that while it may have provided psychological comfort to early Protestant leaders, it does not fit the facts as they are presented in Scripture.

Even given the identification of the Antichrist with the beast, the pope is the last person who would fit the biblical requirements for being the individual Antichrist (or any Antichrist). The epistles of John clearly indicate that the Antichrist is one who denies that Christ has come in the flesh. However, the basis for the pope’s position in the Church is that Christ has come in the flesh and has ascended to heaven, leaving the successor of Peter as his vicar or representative on earth.

For the pope to deny that Christ has come in the flesh would be to undercut the basis of his position. Since no pope historically has made such claims, it is easily verifiable that no pope in history has been an Antichrist. Neither will any future pope be inclined to deny the basis of his position. The anti-papal argument simply is not credible.

Further, in Scripture the beast is clearly a political leader, not a Church leader. In fact, the beast is literally identified with one of the early Roman emperors, who had no part of the Church.

Now that Protestantism has been in a state of separation from the Church for several centuries, psychological pressures have eased, and many Protestants today recognize the absurdity of the papal Antichrist theory and reject those portions of their confessional writings that endorse it.

This praiseworthy recognition provides the Catholic apologist with an opportunity to invite individuals to fundamentally reconsider the Protestant Reformation. If Protestants are prepared to admit that the pope is not the Antichrist and that the Catholic Church is not the Whore of Babylon, then the questions may be posed: "Then what are they? How can they be otherwise explained?"

Most Christians are and always have been members of the Catholic Church. The pope and the Catholic Church are too central to historic Christianity to be dismissed as simply an accident. They must have some part in God’s plan. But if they are not the Antichrist and the Whore of Babylon, then the logical alternative is to recognize them as the Vicar of Christ and the Bride of Christâ€â€the very realization that drove the early Reformers to the papal Antichrist theory.

(adapted from this source: http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0304bt.asp )
 
I sort of knew already that the source was catholic.com. You are predictable; you do like to quote from them, don'cha? ;)

Anyway, just to make a point, not to point fingers at the RCC, because I'm not, but... weren't the early Hebrews closest to their Jewish roots, historic Judaism?... and look at how far apart they strayed form these roots. It displeased Jesus very much. :sad
 
It is quite simple to understand the Nature of the one called the coming antichrist. INstead of thinking of Him as an opposite of Christ, we need to view his nature as a deciever, one coming in the place of Christ, saying "I am God, I am the Christ, I am the returned Messiah."
  • In Isaiah 14, It is stated "I will be like (resemble) the most high.
The true Antichrist, will have attributes percieved to be the attributes the REAL Christ will Have, when He returns to set up HIs Kingdom. If one does a paralell stucy of the actions the Almost Christ takes, and compares them with What the Lord will do, when he sets up His reign, they are strikingly simular. He will blaspheme God, by stating HE IS God!!
  • But even more important than understanding thius deception, one must understand what events occur Prior to His reign, that will project him to this position. All one needs to do, is to understand what occurs prior to the return of the REAL MEssiah, and expect a form of "duplication of prophetic events occuring" or perhaps events that will be percieved to be the events that actually occur before the return of the real Messiah, occuring before the false messiah. Satan is an opportunist, and is waiting for the "perfect" time to come on the scene to seduce as many away as POssable. Just as Jesus stated, "if they shall say unto you, Here is Christ...believe it not!!!"
 
Joshleet said:
He will blaspheme God, by stating HE IS God!!

Interesting.

"The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth...by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth." Quoted in the New York Catechism.

"The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God...
"The Pope alone is called most holy...
"Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of hell.
"Moreover the superiority and the power of the Roman Pontiff by no means pertains only to heavenly things, but also earthly things, and to things under the earth, and even over the angels, whom he his greater than.
"So that if it were possible that the angels might err in the faith, or might think contrary to the faith, they could be judged and excommunicated by the Pope....
"...the Pope is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief of kings, having plenitude of power."
Lucius Ferraris, in "Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica", Volume V, article on "Papa, Article II", titled "Concerning the extent of Papal dignity, authority, or dominion and infallibility", #1, 5, 13-15, 18, published in Petit-Montrouge (Paris) by J. P. Migne, 1858 edition.

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth." Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, "Cities Petrus Bertanous".

“...We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty..." Pope Leo XIII, in Praeclara Gratulationis Publicae (The Reunion of Christendom), Encyclical promulgated on June 20, 1894.
 
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