Are you a conservative or a liberal christian?

Discussion in 'Christianity & Other Religions' started by Deussum, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    Christian:
    Yes
    As we can see, Allah is saying the Torah and Gospel (the bible) is not corrupt. And the Torah and Gospel does not prophecy the coming of Mohamud. Only false prophets that would come and lead people away from the gospel. Both Jews and Christians rejected Mohamud because he is nowhere to be found and all his teachings and practices don't even line up with the Torah and Gospel. Even the pagans said Mohamud spoke myths and its written in islams own trusted sources.

    The Jews had the Torah and the Christians had the Gospel of Christ until the bible was established and that was 300 years before Mohamud, and allah does not say its corrupt.

    I would love for a muslim to show me Mohamud anywhere in the Torah or Gospel. Anything that even comes close to Mohamud.

    Islam has a dilema because in the quran it says Jesus was not crucified and definately not the Son of God as thats blasphemy, and in the quran it says the Gospel the christians have is the truth from allah and the Gospel says Jesus died and rose again and Jesus refers to God as his Father over and over. That is a huge contradiction.

    Is Allah saying the Torah and Gospel is corrupt?

    Surah 7:157
    "Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  2. Creative

    Creative Member

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    There is no such thing as a liberal Christian. Just Christians and fake Christians. adding the term "liberal" is just a way to try to justify calling Jesus a liar.
     
  3. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    Christian:
    Yes
    Allah through the quran says the unlettered prophet should be found in the Torah and Gospel yet Mohamud cannot be found. One claim is he is the Prophet to come like Moses, yet we read...

    Deuteronomy 34:10-11
    And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, In all the signs and the wonders, which the Lord sent him to do in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh, and to all his servants, and to all his land.

    So as we can see Mohamud was not the one to come after Moses. Mohamud did not know God face to face as he recieved his so called revelations through a angel, and he did no signs and miracles and was a complete mess.

    Jesus on the other hand was raising the dead and healing the sick and feeding 5000 people with two loaves of bread, and doing many miracles and showing great signs and wonders in the sight of Israel, was even raised from the dead the greatest sign of all, and Jesus knew God face to face he didnt use a mediator. (angel).

    So we can conclude that Jesus is the one who fits the profile and was "like Moses", not Mohamud.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  4. wondering

    wondering Member

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    :goodpost
     
  5. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    Christian:
    Yes
    Our muslim friends should look at the picture.

    The quran says multiple times the Torah and Gospel is the word of God, Mohamud gave a promise to his followers and told them they could find him in the Gospel and Torah and they will find references that testify of him, he said the Christians have the Gospel and you can find him in there, and when we go to the Gospel the Christians had at the time of Mohamud that we still have today, we do not find Mohamud anywhere, all we find is multiple passages telling us NOT to believe in him.

    He lied.

    He told muslims that they will find him in those sources and mohamud said the Christians have the gospel and torah (the bible) and our Muslim friends look to the gospel and torah and try so hard as best they can to try prove and find Mohamud but nothing works. The Gospel automatically declairs the quran false because God is a Father and Jesus is his begotten Son and he died on a cross and rose from the dead and speaks in the gospel after he was raised from the dead, as testified over and over in the gospel, and the quran says God is no Father to anyone and he has no Son, and he did no die on a cross.


    If I told you I am a prophet and promise you that you can find me in a source and it testifies of me and speaks about me, and you go to that source and it does not have any reference to me and in fact says the complete opposite that im a false prophet and totally contradicts my teachings you would have no option but to conclude im a false prophet and I broke my promise and I lied to you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  6. Deussum

    Deussum Member

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    Conservatives interpret the Bible in a literal way.
     
  7. Creative

    Creative Member

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    That is the definition of fundamentalism not conservatism.
     
  8. Free

    Free Staff Member Moderator

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    There are those who make a distinction between literally and literalistically. Literally is what the authors intended and literalistically is most likely what you mean here by literally. This is a useful convention since we should be trying to understand what the authors' intended meaning was. What they meant is what we need to take literally. Otherwise, what is left for conservatives?
     
  9. jaybird

    jaybird Member

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    there were many that followed Jesus and they believed Him to be a prophet, Jesus never once ordered His disciples to burn them alive for not proclaiming His deity. the teachings of Jesus never focused on this either. it would not become a focus until hundreds of years later.
     
  10. Randy

    Randy Member

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    Christian:
    Yes
    We believe God has spoken to us by His Son in these last days not Muhammad.
    Jesus can give you living water which will become a spring in you welling up to eternal life. Ask Him.

    About God's anointed:sadchrist)
    psalm 2
    Many objections but..
    Why do the nations conspirea
    and the peoples plot in vain?
    2The kings of the earth rise up
    and the rulers band together
    against the Lord and against his anointed, saying,
    3“Let us break their chains
    and throw off their shackles.”
    4The One enthroned in heaven laughs;
    the Lord scoffs at them.
    5He rebukes them in his anger
    and terrifies them in his wrath, saying,
    6“I have installed my king
    on Zion, my holy mountain.”
    7I will proclaim the Lord’s decree:
    He said to me, “You are my son;
    today I have become your father.
    8Ask me,
    and I will make the nations your inheritance,
    the ends of the earth your possession.

    9You will break them with a rod of iron ;
    you will dash them to pieces like pottery.”

    Psalm 110
    Sitting at the right hand of power
    The Lord says to my lord:a
    “Sit at my right hand
    until I make your enemies
    a footstool for your feet.”

    A priest forever by Gods appointment

    The Lord has sworn
    and will not change his mind:
    “You are a priest forever, (length of term=Forever)
    in the order of Melchizedek.”(by Gods appoint not based on genealogy)

    Isaiah saw Jesus's glory and wrote about him
    Isaiah 53
    Who has believed our message
    and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
    2He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
    and like a root out of dry ground.
    He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
    nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
    3He was despised and rejected by mankind,
    a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
    Like one from whom people hide their faces
    he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

    A son was promised
    or to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

    Not just for Israel but a light to the ends of the world
    he says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth."

    His holy one will not see decay
    because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, nor will you let your faithful one see decay.

    “We tell you the good news: What God promised our ancestors 33he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:

    “ ‘You are my son;
    today I have become your father.’b
    34God raised him from the dead so that he will never be subject to decay. As God has said,
    “ ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.’c
    35So it is also stated elsewhere:
    “ ‘You will not let your holy one see decay.’d
    36“Now when David had served God’s purpose in his own generation, he fell asleep; he was buried with his ancestors and his body decayed. 37But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay.
     
  11. childeye

    childeye Member

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    Christian:
    Yes
    I like your thread. Much of the topic is a misunderstanding due to semantics which is why labels such as conservative and liberal are incoherent. The fact is that Adam was also a son of God as were all who have the countenance of God. The difference is that Jesus is the fulfillment of God's plan to quicken that in Adam which He knew would gradually be corrupted. The point of the bigger picture being, to show all sentient beings what is always taken for granted in the creation concerning God's Spirit, so that God would be worshipped in Truth.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  12. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    Christian:
    Yes
    What did Jesus even accomplish in Islam. Hes regarded as a great prophet who was born of a virgin, done lots miracles, and was taken up to God.

    From Jesus there was only two types of people. People who worshipped him as Lord, and in islam thats blasphemy, and people who rejected him.

    So what did Jesus achieve or restore according to Islam as he was such a great prophet. Nothing?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  13. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    Christian:
    Yes
    Allah wants people to sin according to islams most trusted sources.

    Hadith Muslim 6621
    Abu Ayyub Ansari reported that Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) said: If you were not to commit sins, Allah would have swept you out of existence and would have replaced you by another people who have committed sin, and then asked forgiveness from Allah, and He would have granted them pardon.

    Hadith Muslim 6622
    By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if you were not to commit sin, Allah would sweep you out of existence and He would replace (you by) those people who would commit sin and seek forgiveness from Allah, and He would have pardoned them.

    Jesus didnt sin, is he doomed?. Obviously not because God raised him from the dead.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  14. jaybird

    jaybird Member

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    i think you got Muslims confused with US political leaders.
     
  15. kiwidan

    kiwidan Member

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    Christian:
    Yes
    I wasn't talking about muslims, I was talking about islam through its most trusted sources. But you are right about political leaders, Mohamud was also a political leader, well dictator to be more accurate. Thats according to Surah 4:65 in islams most trusted source that no one can have true faith until they make Mohamud judge over everything and fully submit to all his decisions.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  16. Randy

    Randy Member

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    Christian:
    Yes
    Jesus was made both Lord and Christ by God. Those who love the SON are loved by the Father. Thats christian.
    Mortal flesh and blood can't inherit the eternal kingdom God promised to those who love and obey Him. That everlasting kingdom that can't be destroyed is ruled by a faithful High priest appointed to the line of David. At the 2nd coming with the sounding of the last trump of God the kingdom of this world shall become the kingdom of God and His Christ. Jesus will raise us up on the last day. That is the Fathers will.
     

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