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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Attendance
- Thread starter mcmurry
- Start date
th1b.taylor
Member
You're in the wrong Church! I never took roll in my class and my tithe, being between me and God, never went into an envelope. What denomination is this legalistic Church?
Nathan
Member
I know Baptists do.
I think that half of it started as a way to 'encourage' others that people were coming to meet together, and more were being added to them.
The other half has to do with actual structure of the church being a non-profit organization. I am not up to speed on that, but there are certain 'rules' that have to be followed and membership numbers matter. (right, wrong, or indifferent)
I think that half of it started as a way to 'encourage' others that people were coming to meet together, and more were being added to them.
The other half has to do with actual structure of the church being a non-profit organization. I am not up to speed on that, but there are certain 'rules' that have to be followed and membership numbers matter. (right, wrong, or indifferent)
th1b.taylor
Member
I am remorse to say this but numbers are the very last thing I can see God worried about God/Jesus worrying over. God, before He created the space for the universe to exist in, let was finished writing the names in the Book of Life and sealed it, He knows the number and the date, hour, minute and which moment in what second the last one will be saved. Time and Space mean nothing to God because He is Omniscient and is everywhere in every time and location, right now and allways has been there. Please take that imaginary god into File Thirteen and take up following the Living God.
abide
Member
My church take attendance too. It doesn't bother me that much. Once my name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life that is all that matters.
King Dan of Great the 1st
Member
What's happens if someone misses church without a valid excuse, do they get a tithe fine?
King Dan of Great the 1st
Member
Business seems to be more important than the Lord these days.
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What is legalistic?
Do you mean counting how many people are there or keeping track of members that are and are not there? Every church does a count. Nothing at all wrong with that.
King Dan of Great the 1st
Member
Taking a count I could understand but keeping track of members that are and are not there seems a bit creepy, and even more creepy if they question people who dont turn up to service.
Bill,
Don't you take advantage of the tax deduction in the US for money given to the church? For this tax deduction to be possible, the treasurer needs to keep a record of your giving.
When you prepare your federal tax return, the IRS allows you to deduct the donations you make to churches. If your church operates solely for religious and educational purposes, your donation will qualify for the tax deduction. As long as you itemize your deductions, you can generally claim 100 percent of your church donations as a deduction (source).
Oz
mcmurry
Member
Yes I'm Baptist, Southern Baptist in fact although I have also attended a Missionary Baptist church, but have only been a member of my current church. In smaller churches I have attended, there have been boards on the walls that had Sunday school attendance, Church attendance, number of people who were members, and sometimes the amount given the past Sunday. No body was ever fined or punished, or questioned for not attending Church that I'm aware of, but I do know that several years back, there was an effort to update the Church membership rolls because we still had some people who had died, and some who had moved away and were still listed as members. My Church does a monthly newsletter/calendar mailing, and was wanting to make sure they had current addresses, and that the person still wanted to be included.
I have quit putting my tithe in an envelope, and have never tried to claim a tax deduction for my tithe. I'm not an expert on the Bible, but have never heard of a verse that claimed that if you give God 10%, the government would give you some of it back.
I have quit putting my tithe in an envelope, and have never tried to claim a tax deduction for my tithe. I'm not an expert on the Bible, but have never heard of a verse that claimed that if you give God 10%, the government would give you some of it back.
So true. We do not even keep a list of members at our church...... though we do count the approximate # of people who attend our services.
Not_Now.Soon
Member
I'm not sure of the reasons, but my church keeps a count of how many people are there each Sunday. I don't think there's anything nefarious about it. As for membership rolls, my church does this too. For the benifit of the community I think. It's a fairly small church and having the members as well as those who've come regularly be split up among the deacons, I think is does so the church can better serve the needs of the people.
The other thing that deals with membership is that the church makes decisions by voting through the church body. So being a member also means that you can partake in those decisions. The last big decision voted on in the church was about donating a section of land to habitat for humanity. It passed, and then the decision went through the higher channels of how to make that possible or if it was possible, but at least the church voted on it and made an agreement to go forward with the decision.
Can't speak for other churches but so far at the church I go to, I don't see anything bad or harmful about membership or keeping a head count.
The other thing that deals with membership is that the church makes decisions by voting through the church body. So being a member also means that you can partake in those decisions. The last big decision voted on in the church was about donating a section of land to habitat for humanity. It passed, and then the decision went through the higher channels of how to make that possible or if it was possible, but at least the church voted on it and made an agreement to go forward with the decision.
Can't speak for other churches but so far at the church I go to, I don't see anything bad or harmful about membership or keeping a head count.
th1b.taylor
Member
Any keeping records of the tithe can and in my case is. Even the Government does not know what I give to the Church and it has never been ten percent.
th1b.taylor
Member
No! God knows what I put in the plate and He knows e3verything else I do for His service and it is nobody's business. Remember that saying that makes no sense on the surface, don't let your left hand know what the right hand is doing, think about it. My service is to the King and he that wants to report all of this, already has his or her reward, recognition.
mcmurry,
Please direct me to a NT verse that supports tithing as 10%. We know that it is a biblical view (Lev 27:30) but it is not a Christian perspective.
The NT Christian view is:
'Here is something to remember. The one who plants only a little will gather only a little. And the one who plants a lot will gather a lot. 7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give. You shouldn’t give if you don’t want to. You shouldn’t give because you are forced to. God loves a cheerful giver' (2 Cor 9:6-7 NIRV).
Therefore, the 10% tithe is an OT requirement for the Israelites but it is not a command under the New Covenant for Christians.
The reason for the tax deduction for donations to the church in the USA is because the govt knows that meeting the needs of people in the community would be so much harder for the govt if the church wasn't there. Here in Australia, we do not have tax deductions for donations to the church, but we do have tax deductions for registered charities such as Compassion Australia, The Smith Family, etc.
We also should use 1 Peter 4:10 (NIVR) as a guide in our giving, 'God’s gifts of grace come in many forms. Each of you has received a gift in order to serve others. You should use it faithfully'.
Oz
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Bill,
Your govt recognises what the church does to meet needs in the community and it has given you in the USA a wonderful tax break which I can't get. I do get a tax deduction for my sponsorship of children through Compassion Australia.
My tax deduction gives me more money to spend on sponsoring children, for which I praise the Lord.
If I followed your principles, I'd ignore that. What you do in not claiming a tax break is your business.
By the way, your quoting Matt 6:3 about not letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing is right out of context. This is what the context states:
“Be careful not to do good deeds in front of other people. Don’t do those deeds to be seen by others. If you do, your Father in heaven will not reward you.
2 “When you give to needy people, do not announce it by having trumpets blown. Do not be like those who only pretend to be holy. They announce what they do in the synagogues and on the streets. They want to be honored by other people. What I’m about to tell you is true. They have received their complete reward. 3 When you give to needy people, don’t let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. 4 Then your giving will be done secretly. Your Father will reward you, because he sees what you do secretly (Matt 6:1-4 NIRV).
2 “When you give to needy people, do not announce it by having trumpets blown. Do not be like those who only pretend to be holy. They announce what they do in the synagogues and on the streets. They want to be honored by other people. What I’m about to tell you is true. They have received their complete reward. 3 When you give to needy people, don’t let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. 4 Then your giving will be done secretly. Your Father will reward you, because he sees what you do secretly (Matt 6:1-4 NIRV).
Jesus was countering those who were flaunting their good deeds to the needy by announcing with blowing of trumpets in their pretense to be holy. They were overtly doing it in the synagogues and on the streets.
So receiving a tax deduction from the govt has zero to do with opposing overt proclamation of giving in the public arena. I don't believe your application is accurate when compared with Jesus' intent in what he stated in context.
Oz
My church does it to follow up for pastoral care. If the pastoral carers did not know the names and addresses of those who attend, they could not offer reliable pastoral care.
Oz
We have an official membership list for that, although they will also visit regular attendees who are not members, but no one writes down names of who is or isn't there on a given Sunday. Having said that, a couple of months ago my wife and I missed a couple of Sundays in a row and I received an email from an elder wondering if everything was alright. That is what elders should be doing, even regular members. It just takes awareness since we are all to look out for the needs of others.
You probably know already but in Canada we also get a tax deduction for all charitable donations, sacred or secular. And I sure use it to my advantage. Why not, right?