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AVATAR! a mockery of Christ?

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The human premise of the film is intelligence-gathering / diplomatic relationships whilst the Navi premise is the rise of a war-chief to lead all the clans against those people who see only profit rather than people. I can see a vague tie-in in humans becoming Dream-walkers but nothing like the incarnation.
 
hinduism is the new fad. look at julia roberts. shame, that. but i was never nuts about her anyway.

as for avatar, i refuse to watch that rediculous looking movie. its all CGI and i HAAATE overuse of CGI in movies ever since the star wars prequels. its just...too much.

and the only movie i ever really liked from james cameron was Terminator 2 judgement day.
 
the thing i dont understand is the way they live. how can God possibly want you to shave your head, wear yellow robes and live in a temple? the people i see doing these bizarre things is questioning. why shave the hair that God gave you? reminds me of the muslims, covering your whole body even your face. its just crazy and i dont think God intended woman to do this.
 
I think folks are looking a bit too deep into this one. The movie is very entertaining and quite good. It has no hidden meaning. Cameron is pretty direct regarding some of the political / environmental messages he has in the film.

In my experience most people's faith is only a pretense to make them feel better about not going to hell but they don't want to do the really hard (actually very easy) work to please God. Consequently, they fear any other belief system as if they could be influenced against their will.
They don't understand the power of the Holy Spirit and that same Spirit's invulnerability to being co-opted. They fear demons, possession and films that carry messages, both hidden and overt.
 
The writers of "Star Wars" incorporated what they thought was the "Essence of religion" into what they called "the Force", and Christians everywhere were sure they were presenting the Holy Spirit. Some of it DID "Fit" nicely though. J.C. Superstar tried to "Make the Myth Live" - and did for some folks.

"Avatar", of course is essentially "Fern Gully" re-told in Sci-Fi form. But with utterly SPECTACULAR technology when seen in 3D mode. The story is the same 'ol same 'ol.

The "Capitalists" are bad, and will kill everything in their path to get what they want.

The "Military" is brain dead, and violent.

And the "natives" are "greens" (even though they're blue) dedicated to preserving the "environment" against the intrusion of the "Capitalists".

Oh - and there's this "Magic tree".

Naturally, in good politically acceptable fashion the "Greens" win, and the environment is SAVED (can I have an "Amen?")

All told, a REALLY GOOD cinema experience that seems to have honked off almost ALL the "Special interest groups".
 
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“All told, a REALLY GOOD cinema experience that seems to have honked off almost ALL the "Special interest groups". â€

People like Cameron and Lucas and Spielberg are just a few who actually enjoy their jobs as secular story tellers, and are quite good at it.

Ferngully and Dances With Wolves are most often brought up as being the same story as Avatar. But Edgar Rice Burroughs, another good story teller, as seen by the fact that his books continue to be sold to this day, wrote much of Avatar almost a hundred years ago. Nevertheless, that doesn’t detract from the ability of a good story teller of the present. Personally, I like to see stories retold with a personal twist, which is exactly what Avatar is. Especially when retold by a good story teller who enjoys his job, like Cameron. It is a great way for the present generation to experience these traditional stories for themselves, and for those of us who already have experienced these stories before to re-experience them in a different form.

But the whole idea is to get people to read the stories and to watch the movies so that money can be made. That is their job. And part of that is the use of the special interest groups for their own benefit. Such groups help to bring these stories to popular conscientiousness so that more money can be made. Jesus Christ Superstar became famous that way forty years ago. And that retelling of the Scriptural reality, something that is a mere story to many, was brought from mediocrity to fame by the special interest groups who opposed it.

It seems that the special interest groups continue to be clueless as to how they are being used. Otherwise they wouldn’t continue to be used. Of course the essence of special interest groups is that they are centered within while seeming to be focused without. And so is their sight. It is not possible for them to see much beyond themselves. So as it was with The DaVinci Code before Avatar, the special interest groups have found themselves being used once again for the personal gain of a story teller. To bad that some of these special interest groups and special interest individuals that are being used are Christians who consider themselves to be mature. They claim to be worried about the affect of such stories on babes, or potential babes, in Christ. Yet they are unable to see the affect that the stories have had upon themselves.

Personally, I am more concerned about how the religion that calls itself Christianity is having an affect on babes in Christ. Which in its denominational essence is much more negative than any secular story could ever be. Because unlike the secular story tellers, the denominations of this religion each takes itself and its distinctive understanding of reality seriously, as if they and their understandings are the reality itself. The New Testament writers clearly and persuasively show, to one predisposed to be sufficiently open minded toward the possibility of a supernatural realm, why Jesus Christ and the Reality that is in Christ should be taken seriously. But the denominational nature of Christianity and the bulk of its “mature†adherents shows why Christianity should not.

JamesG
 
The writers of "Star Wars" incorporated what they thought was the "Essence of religion" into what they called "the Force", and Christians everywhere were sure they were presenting the Holy Spirit. Some of it DID "Fit" nicely though. J.C. Superstar tried to "Make the Myth Live" - and did for some folks.

"Avatar", of course is essentially "Fern Gully" re-told in Sci-Fi form. But with utterly SPECTACULAR technology when seen in 3D mode. The story is the same 'ol same 'ol.

The "Capitalists" are bad, and will kill everything in their path to get what they want.

The "Military" is brain dead, and violent.

And the "natives" are "greens" (even though they're blue) dedicated to preserving the "environment" against the intrusion of the "Capitalists".

Oh - and there's this "Magic tree".

Naturally, in good politically acceptable fashion the "Greens" win, and the environment is SAVED (can I have an "Amen?")

All told, a REALLY GOOD cinema experience that seems to have honked off almost ALL the "Special interest groups".

i love how hollywood portrays us soldiers as dummies and clueless. It drives me up the wall. sure, we have them but then agian so does hollywood even more so.look at these types. britanny spears,paris hilton, tip of the ice berg.

its ironic that a war machine enabled hollywood to excel rapidly as the projector used for decades was invented by the nazis. dumb soldiers indeed.
 
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Jasoncran

The idea of the military that most have is the one wherein the soldier has to believe what he is told to believe and to do what he is told to do. Much like the Catholic Church or the JW’s. Individual thinkers need not apply. This naturally leads to the common idea that military personnel, especially the laity as it were, are neither bright enough nor educated enough to think for themselves. And there are some who actually fit into that mold. I too was in the military when I was young.

But Cameron does not limit the militaristic security force of the Corporation in Avatar to this common idea. The two main military figures in the movie are very intelligent and know how to think for themselves. Those being the head of security and Jake. Even the chief warrior of the Na’vi was very intelligent and free thinking when it came down to it. And the warrior girlfriend of Jake showed herself to be very intelligent and free thinking as well. Naturally the existence of all these intelligent free thinking individuals, including the chief scientist, created a great clash of wills, that in turn created the basis for the action sequences in the movie.

As with most story tellers, Cameron picked up a lot from previous story tellers. But to me, the ability of Cameron to put a unique spin on these previous stories that is all his own, and to create a basically new way to use already existing technology in order to tell his story, makes him a very good story teller. Unusual for one his age. Usually, it is the young who have the physical stamina and the naiveté to do what most would consider impossible or not worth it. Cameron is like a young Lucas in this respect. And apparently most who watched the movie agree. Too many DVD’s have been sold to think otherwise.

The Alien saga and the Terminator trilogy were a little too noir for my taste. But Avatar has a brighter feel. More like the original Star Wars. Both are basically war movies, like what Star Trek: DS9 and Star Trek: Enterprise and Babylon 5 became in the end. That is apparently a popular way to achieve action and hold the attention of the audience. Even Raiders of the Lost Ark, a movie that I enjoyed immensely, had a war in its background. Yet war movies aren’t generally my cup of tea either. I just happen to be a Science Fiction fan to the extent that I have watched them all, even if they are dark or war-like or, and there are many out there, basically stupid. There are not many Science Fiction movies that have the creativity of a movie like Charly, if you remember that movie from the 60’s starring Cliff Robertson. And even it was based on a story by Daniel Keyes, a Science Fiction writer of the era, called Flowers for Algernon.

Nevertheless, I greatly enjoyed Avatar and I am curious to see what the sequel will be like. That is, if Cameron ever actually gets around to making it. Rumors are unending as per usual.

JamesG
 
i know that but that is because most in hollywood havent served or wouldnt serve.free thinking as in i dont what i want when i want is totally different then some person who gave his word to serve even thought he might not agree with the leader decisions. lol. hollywood often brags about free thinking but yet is often the most closed minded lot of the country.
 
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“hollywood often brags about free thinking but yet is often the most closed minded lot of the country.â€

I agree that Hollywood tends to be closed minded due to their emphasis on monetary gain, to the extent that they sometimes cut off their nose to spite their face. A lot of innovative TV series bit the dust before their time because of this. Max Headroom and Twin Peaks come to mind. Remember them? But I don’t think that Hollywood has the corner on closed mindedness.

The Scientific community, for example, also prides itself on its apparent open mindedness and free thinking ability. But try to present something that might be against their pet doctrine, the Theory of Evolution, and see how open minded they really are.

Look at the “discussions†among the overly denominationally minded Christians if you want to see closed mindedness. Satan’s greatest trick against believers has been to get them to accept the denominational thinking that has led to the current denominational state of Christianity. “We are the true Church with the true canonized doctrines given by Jesus Christ†or “we represent legitimate Biblical truthâ€. Christians today are generally incapable of practicing any kind of unity other than denominational unity. Doesn’t do any good to argue against Christian fundamentalism with that kind of mindset. Christianity has managed to take what Paul spoke against in 1Corinthians to an extreme, to its ultimate conclusion. Not just division within an ekklesia, but division expressed as if each division is, not only the true ekklesia exclusively, but exclusively in a universal sense.

Cameron didn’t imply that all Corporations or all militarized elements or all concerns that deal with the environment are inherently evil. Rather he brought out that certain mindsets are not necessary to their purpose. Something not generally noticed is how the leader of the scientists is portrayed as initially believing that one has to be a fully educated scientist in order to be able to effectively use an avatar. Something proven to be wrong by Jake. But it reflects a certain educational mindset, a bias that often leads to snobbery among the educated.

Corporations that can’t see beyond monetary gain, military that is used to conquer indigenous populations for monetary gain, and those who harvest resources in a destructive manner for monetary gain. As a Christian and an American, I fully agree with Cameron on these issues.

The hero of the Avatar story is Jake, a military minded man. As was the security chief, the anti-hero of the story, a military minded man. The anti-hero was never presented as being particularly more evil than the hero. He was presented as being very loyal to the Corporation and to earth. That would be patriotic, if it was in relation to a nation. He was presented as being, not only very good at his job, but good at achieving quick results. He was genuinely caring toward the people under his command. And he was presented as being just as capable of thinking for himself as was Jake. There were no stupid people in this movie, not even among the Na’vi, who were seen as ignorant by the humans. And according to the movie, Cameron was also against this mindset because the seemingly ignorant won the battle and sent their opponents packing. Even if it was with the help of something apparently supernatural.

Cameron, like Lucas, brought a supernatural element into the movie. Actually, that says something positive about the world. That mention of the supernatural in some form is still an element allowed and even acceptable by so many. And if opposition to the way the supernatural is presented, presents itself, all the better because it helps to sell the movie. Remember how a mediocre movie called “Jesus Christ Superstar†gained fame through the actions of the opposition? And let us recall a more recent example of how “The DaVinci Code†gained fame through the efforts of the opposition. A movie more deserving of fame in the sense that it was at least a decent mystery. As was “Angels and Demonsâ€. Well directed by Opie, I mean Ron Howard.

While some Christians might be against such movies because the supernatural isn’t presented in a Christian light, that should be expected because most of the world does not follow Christ. And neither does Cameron and Lucas. And that is why a distinction must be made between man-made stories and the reality portrayed in the Bible. Not that Avatar is a mockery of Christ, but that the portrayals are distinct because they are different from one another. Neither Christ nor Christianity was mentioned or alluded to in Avatar or in the Star Wars saga. Which shouldn’t surprise anyone because they are writing Science Fiction. Christian ideas only crop up as similarities necessary to the story in Science Fiction. Science Fiction writers are as a rule very free thinking.

Note that the humans in Avatar had no religion. Only Jake was persuaded through experience to take the religion of the Na’vi more seriously. We’ll never know if the chief scientist would have eventually come around. She was at least more tolerant than most. And that too may be a comment against a certain mindset. Cameron is neither for nor against a particular religion. But he has shown himself to have an interest in the supernatural according to his latest endeavors, even though his conclusions may not be strictly Christian. And that is to be expected in one who obviously is not walking according to the Spirit of God.

Cameron was being pretty even-minded in his presentation of militarism, as well as the other issues that he dealt with, in my estimation. It could have been a typical scenario wherein the Scientist is constantly having to overcome the stupidity of the military or the police (city military in a practical sense). Cameron did bring out a tension between science and greed (head scientist against the planetary head of the corporation). As it happened, the military was loyal to the corporation. But Cameron went against type when he didn’t make the chief scientist the hero. I wonder if Cameron got the idea for a hero with an impediment (physically crippled) from the movie “Charly†(mentally crippled) with Cliff Robertson. Remember that one? A very well told story, in spite of the sad ending.

Avatar had a good cast, but two out of four main characters died. The chief scientist and the anti-hero chief of security. That, together with the inordinate length of the movie, gives me the impression that Cameron did not originally intend to make a sequel.

Worthington and Saldana may have been the hero and his girlfriend sidekick, but it was Lang as head of security and Weaver as the chief scientist who gave the movie character. It was all of the actors together that made the movie sing. The planetary background was an added attraction. So what if Cameron wasn’t very original by utilizing previously used ideas. And the unimaginative weren’t able to get past that. That doesn’t take away from the fact that Cameron as writer is a good story teller. And Cameron as director is quite capable of bringing together the story elements in an aesthetic fashion, visible and otherwise. Admittedly, the aesthetics of the Alien saga and the Terminator trilogy were much darker. In that sense, Avatar is an improvement.

Here’s something that may reveal a bit more about the militaristic element in the movie. They’ve just come out with a directors cut version. The theatre version was three hours long. This version adds fifteen or twenty more minutes. And there is included in the special features thirty minutes that ended up on the cutting room floor. That’s more than enough for a movie and its sequel right there. If Cameron actually makes a sequel, Avatar will become a trilogy.

JamesG
 
"The Scientific community, for example, also prides itself on its apparent open mindedness and free thinking ability. But try to present something that might be against their pet doctrine, the Theory of Evolution, and see how open minded they really are."

Critical approach is the cornerstone of science. If you "question" evolution with an evidenced hypothesis, offering some scientifically valid refinement or alternative to evolution or any of its subset hypotheses, then your refinements and/or changes will be accepted. The only reason evolution has reached the high standing it has is because of constant scrutiny and peer review. Science yearns for more perfect understanding, so it would be unscientific to hold anything as dogma (which they don't).
 
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"Science yearns for more perfect understanding, so it would be unscientific to hold anything as dogma (which they don't)."

As you wish. Not the point of this thread.

JamesG
 
i agree completely. i did watch this movie while i was in uniform on a bus. its wasnt all that bad ,pretty good. now then if you wish to discuss the star trek franchise i'm game.
 
I didn't think Avatar was especially good or anything (plot: Dances with Smurfs), but the effects on an IMAX screen were certainly great.
 
There are several definitions for avatar but in regards to this movie I believe this one is best:
An incarnation in human form, an embodiment (as of a concept or philosophy) often in a person.

I have seen the movie and feel that was definitely religious over-tones to it. But I did not see it as a dig against God. The inhabitants are intimately connected to their planet yes so I guess one could say that it leans to evolution side of things. But seriously, how many movies coming out of Hollywood don't? Maybe 2 movies a year? As with anything we watch as Christians, if we feel that it goes against the spirit of God, then don't watch it. This would of course include 99% of what on TV these days. This is why I don't own one.

A side note: I have seen in other forums, ( not Christian forums ) people calling for a boycott of this movie because it promotes global warming, which is ( as we all know ) nothing but a lie being pushed by the global elite to move us closer to a one world government. I have tried my best to explain to these folks that Gods word says that there is going to be a world government and nothing they do will change this. But alas, they will not listen. All I can do is plant the seed.



:amen ?


AMEN!


my folks are in there watching it...personally i refuse
 
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Jasoncran

LOL. A discussion on the Star Trek franchise would necessitate a new thread, maybe several new threads. We’re talking forty five years of information here, assuming the latest Star Trek entry has a sequel. I’m not a trekkie or trekker or whatever they call it. But I am a fan, and I have Star Trek: TOS on DVD in its original incarnation. It continues, since childhood, to be my favorite TV series.

The idea of updating the original series may have seemed like a good idea initially. But they went way overboard, IMHO, when they even changed the Starship “Enterpriseâ€, the real star of the show, into a different ship. They could have just as easily made the Starship conform to the last way the ship looked in all episodes, or better yet shown how the ship changed through the mission. In a sense that is what actually happened in the series as the Starship changed through the three seasons. They didn’t need to change it as drastically as they did. I guess it's pretty if one likes grey. But I have to wonder if they were trying to bring some conformity to how the ship looked in the last series, Enterprise.

Well, as I said, this matter would need a new thread, what with five series and a bunch of movies.

I would like to ask a favor, however. I started a thread on the Apologetics and Theology forum back on 1-20. It’s called “Closed Communionâ€. To me, this would be an important subject related to the denominational nature of Christianity. Apparently no one agrees, since no one has yet to respond. I would really like to know why this practice is acceptable to so many (the vast majority, actually), and what is their Biblical ground for the practice. The Orthodox and Catholic ground is historical/Tradition, which is reasonable from their perspective. But I have to wonder why Protestants would follow suit based on the Bible alone. The thread hasn’t been moved or removed or closed, so I don’t think the subject is considered inflammatory, like the Catholic/Protestant thing. Could you go over and put your two cents worth in? Perhaps that will start the ball rolling.

Thanks,

JamesG
 
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