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Baby Steps for Revelation

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It is an unfortunate situation in Christian eschatology in general when literalism comes to play in end time understandings.

This unfortunate situation comes about from 'bad theology' in general. The Word of God Primarily engages Spiritual matters. Does same Word address literal matters as well? Of course. But the primary fulcrum is spiritual.

This fact can be derived from many avenues in the scriptures.

God Is A Spirit:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit:

The Word is taught by Jesus in parables stated in numerous places such as:

Mark 4:
33 And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it.

For example we know in parable that 'wheat' is often equated to 'believers.' Are the believers in parable any less real because they are conveyed as wheat? Or as sheep? Of course not.

Parables are used because they convey unseen or spiritual matters. Setting a believing person next to an unbelieving person would to our external eyes yield exactly zero differences in what is on the inside of such. That is why 'literalism' is such a poor poor tool. Similitude, allegory, parable etc etc can all be deployed and still have 'literal' meanings.

Paul for example constantly used the spiritual comparison to spiritual comparison tools in the majority of his writings and states outright that is how The Holy Spirit teaches:

1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

What speakings are we then to exempt from those measures? NONE.

The insistence on 'literal external sights' are deemed to utterly fail when such understandings meet Revelation and end time subjects in general.

The 7 churches of Revelation come face to face with the spiritual tool requirement almost immediately in Revelation when the various works of Satan *and the allegorical connections* the entire arena of Satan and devils entails are addressed to the members in all 7 churches.

Of course no one is going to be laying external sights of Satan or devils or Jezebel or any other satanic imposition.

The Word also provides some very simple tools to 'engage' and 'understand' parables/allegories/similitude's.

The most basic scriptural tool was delivered by Jesus right here:

Mark 4:
13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?


Jesus taught the above parable many different ways. A similar parable, not 'exactly' the same is taught by Matthew, Mark and Luke. The 'general' intention is identical in all, but the particulars vary by Divine Intentions in part to get the readers off of the blind insistence to literalism.

And if Mark 4 (inclusive of the related parables) are used to understand all parables and Jesus and the Apostles taught in parables and spiritual associations, then how much allegory/parable are we to exclude from the basic measures of parables/similitude's/allegories? Zero. Every last parable, allegory, terms such as 'as' 'like' 'likened' are all in fact allegorical/parable deployments. Anywhere we see terms like thorns or goats or sheep or mountains or hills when they are associated with people are in fact parable/allegory.

Where there is allegory in any account the entire account must be viewed that way.

The Law itself is in fact A PARABLE as shown in Psalm 78:1-2 and Hosea 12:10 where it says that the prophets spoke in SIMILITUDE'S.

Moses was also a prophet. Did Moses therefore speak in similitude's?

Yes.

So, to those unto whom Gods gives understandings, they will be led into understanding parables. Those who don't will not be enjoying either Revelation, end times or eschatology in general and their understandings immediately show their shortcomings. Constantly wrangling, never once agreeing on hardly a single term or view.

That is the fate of literalism meeting Revelation.

Will post more in the direction of SIMPLE (baby step) allegory understandings that any believer can and should be able to come to grips with entirely on their own with a prayer to the Holy Spirit for help in confirmations. At the point where any believer understands our symbiotic process with The Spirit, then the role of Spirit Leading you individually through these matters will come into play and eventually you will be given more and more IF you are cooperative and extended that Hand of God.

Only the honest will be led in.

Not my call.

enjoy!

smaller
 
Mark 4:
14 The sower soweth the word.
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

In this essence of simplicity Jesus lays forth The Parable to understand 'all' parables.

Why do we need to understand this parabolically? Because zero of us are going to be able to physically 'see' what happens in the above reality. Does the above concern a real LITERAL matter? Of course. Paul laid out the exact same issue with every unbeliever in this scripture for example:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

In the above by Paul any believer should be able to see the identical principle in operation that Jesus laid out in Mark 4:15.

Here it is again, the identical principle applied to every believer prior to belief:

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

I could cite numerous N.T. scriptures that will exemplify the identical principle.

Let's
examine the basic components of a parable then, from Mark 4:15. These components are to be found in every parable/allegory.

The Word of God.
The 'people' into whom said Word is sown
Satan, the thief/destroyer/killer

If you ever read another parable dissection in your life as a believer and see that the most basic element of parables are missing, you can take it to the spiritual bank that the presenter doesn't have much of a clue, if ANY, about the basic constructs of ALL PARABLES. If they can't even get the basic 3 components figured out it's going to have missing parts.

Pretty simple, right?

Moving on:

In Mark 4:15 we have the most basic components easily laid forth.

NOW let's do a little comparative homework. Only disciples are provided the homework lessons or 'the key' to crack open the meanings of the parables using the basic components.

So let's look and see how Jesus delivered that same scripture construct to the 'unsaved masses.'

Mark 4:

2 And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,
3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:
4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

In the above we see the 'same statement' as Mark 4:15, only the meanings are purposefully hidden.

The first BABY STEP lesson in 'spiritual associations' is to take Mark 4:3-4 and compare it to Mark 4:14-15.

In this basic lesson we can see that fowls of the air spiritually equate to whom? That's right, SATAN. Now when you read about 'fowls of the air' are you seriously going to be looking up in the sky for little birdies? If so, you are not meant to understand, and you should just keep looking up in the sky for little birdies to understand Revelation.

This lesson WILL PLAY into Revelation. There is also a surface layer about fowls of the air, but long term students of allegories and parables will also understand that by the time a person gets through studying the numerous lessons contained in the old testament about fowls of the air, needless to say to try to see them as literal birds is not only quite childish, it doesn't even get out the gate or compute and is genuinely laughable.

Will go on, for a bit anyway.

If some one wants to actually say, er, I, I 'get it' feel free to do so.

enjoy!

smaller


 
STEPPING ON THE ACCELERATOR:

Many a believer is (and remains) mystified by Revelation. And rightfully so. Without a basis in understanding parables and associations at the most basic level they never will be able to understand.

Here is a simple exercise in 'instant correlation associations' to bring a matter into focus. We already have seen that Revelation is largely engaged with Spiritual matters, the Spiritual matters are conveyed in parables/allegories and that there are basic scriptural components to every parable, Satan being a vital component. Satan missing is also the largest error made by most. Funny why that is, isn't it?

Let's take a quick look at Satan conveyed in Revelation a few different yet similar ways:

Revelation 12:3
And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Who is the SEVEN HEADED BEAST in the above example? Do I have to say DOI?

Is the 'great red dragon' Satan?

hmmm? Not hard to figure:

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

No questions there. There are a few details in the Old Testament that will 'flavor' the dragon matters as well. That's what one does when locating these 'links.'

I am glad that terms like Dragons and Leviathan are used as Satan allegory links because we certainly don't see any of them 'literally.'

So, on the seven headed Satan above, how do we know it's a beast?

Revelation 13:1
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Tracking yet?

Revelation 17:3
So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Is it reasonable to quick link by association the beast with the seven heads, ten horns and seven crowns to SATAN?
If you don't see it I will just say...sleep on and keep looking for little birdies in the sky.

enjoy!

smaller

 
Reading every word, not bird watching. Besides if you keep looking up for too long your are going to get something white and unexpected in the eye or step in it.

So I take up the two-edged sword. Let's slay some dragons. Or rather you can teach how to slay dragons.
 
Sadly i deserve that :sad

I should have made it read more moderator like... Honestly my eyes are not well, that much colour makes reading hard... I can edit the post to black and white read it then cancel the edit...:thumbsup
 
Sadly i deserve that :sad

I should have made it read more moderator like... Honestly my eyes are not well, that much colour makes reading hard... I can edit the post to black and white read it then cancel the edit...:thumbsup

Maybe I can double post a bnw for you? heh heh.

If I could make it any clearer I would Reba. I try to show simply, in blue and red, from the text, that mankind and devils occupy the same space and that the information is relayed allegorically because 1/2 of the construct of mankind can't be seen. It is crucial information for theology understandings. So, the colors sometimes help the slower to catch on...;)

Legit dissections of allegory/parable are far and few between. Most learn it the hard way after a lot of hard work. I appreciate believers who spend the time to consider what is being presented and the better ones share and build together from their experiences, as that is part of how God in Christ works.

He demands sharing, which is pleasant to partake of, in some cases.

enjoy!

s
 
Eschatology understandings in the ways of allegory and parable understanding is a layering process. The linkage in the text testifies to it's Intimate and Divine Beauty in Authorship. Had someone told me 30+ years ago, before I had a personal introduction to Jesus Christ by His Spirit, that a single book would kept my rapt attentions for that entire time I would have laughed. There was a time when I couldn't read a half a page of the text without getting lost, falling asleep or failing to see any relevant information therein. How that can change overnight is amazing to experience.

I challenged a friend of mine, now deceased, and a self styled Buddhist at the time to honor our friendship and indulge me by simply reading 4 short letters out of the entire Bible, which were the 4 Gospels of course. And I clipped the pages together of one of my old favorite Bibles, an RSV, with a paperclip with the challenge to read through them and tell me what the 'story was.' I even warned him that it was a challenge, and recounted my own experience above. He laughed at me and boasted 'you're talking to a guy who read Hawaii!' (a 700 page long bore fest)

A few months later I asked how the challenge was going. He admitted to the identical experience I state above. I had the pleasure of praying with him to accept Christ sometime later, and look forward to our eventual reunion.

All that being said if ANYONE is even here and has been called in to even be able to READ the text, congratulations to you as you are soooo called.

There is much to listen to and to heed, to those to whom it is given.

enjoy!

smaller
 
Tell me Smaller, would you consider my literal approach to Revelation to be in error as I have laid it out in my "Simple Chart of the Progression of End Time Events" thread?
 
Back to the association zone:

We saw in the first post how the Sower sows the Word. It is a heavenly matter, that sowing. The 'fact' that the Law has gone out to the people of Israel for example does not mean that LAW was merely for the people of Israel. We know that the LAW is for the lawless, that Satan and devils are LAWLESS and that Satan is prompted into LAWLESS actions in the hearts of mankind by the mere existence of THE PERFECT WORD in our world.

Therefore the 'dynamic' between the Law/Word of God is not merely between God and man, but also between Gods Word and the anti-Christ lawless spirits.

This fact, in short, is VITAL understanding to have anywhere close to a better sight of matters of Revelation.

The Primary Parable, that of Mark 4:15, as stated above is thee parable to crack open ALL PARABLES. And when we simply examine the components of thee parable therein we find the parties to the parable, God, Satan, mankind.

These 3 components then are in every parable, allegory and the ENTIRE WORD speaks to this same dynamic, not just the parts that say "this is allegory" but all of the Word.

The Word is SPIRIT and SPIRITUAL.

So, let's take a quick and minor stroll through a sower statement or two in the Old Testament and see if there are some correlations to the PARABLE of Mark 4:15.

Isaiah 55:
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.The deployment of the term 'as' in the above automatically relegates The Word to an allegory. As is not a direct hit. If the term 'is' was deployed, that is a direct hit, but 'as' is an allegorical term and to be understood 'as' such.

And 'as' such Isaiah's statement makes how much Word 'as?' Uh, yeah, all of it.

So much for 'literal only' slants. Remember the Word is both literal and allegorical/parable at the same time, the latter encompassing the former and the former unable to tackle the latter, therefore the allegorical/parable is THE SUPERIOR TOOL.

You as a believer are a WHEAT but you are also a literal person. The WHEAT therefore is superior to just you as a person.

You as a believer are effectively allegorized/parableized in that transition.

Dig?

Often in the Word you will find the TWO HANDS of God in the deployment of His Word. For example The Word was sown in Peter and voila!!! Who showed up almost immediately afterwards to speak from Peter's lips? Uh, yeah, SATAN. Picture Mark 4:15 in action in Peter. Did we see 'externally' any of that action? No. It all transpires in the unseen, but is exceptionally REAL. Satan did not come running down the street and jump into Peter's body that we can see.

There is 'a world' that is not seen with human eyes. But it is a 'world' that is unveiled in the scriptures.

In Isaiah above we hear the GOOD SIDE of the 'cadence.' Now let's look at the other side:

12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the Lord for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.

There is the other side of the ledgers. The thorn and the brier. In the order of understanding parables/allegories and the parties involved, which parties might those terms then be referring to?

Uh, yeah. Satan and his ugly minions.

Did Paul deploy this sight in 2 Cor. 12:7 personally? Go read it and find out. The answer is YES.

Did the writer of Hebrews deploy this same sight?

Hebrews 6:
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

Isaiah 55, meet Hebrews 6 above and 2 Cor. 12:7.

And welcome to your first lesson in 'intimate linking' in the texts.

One of the parties in your lump of clay, your earthen vessel, is hearing these matters and rejoicing.

and

One is also resisting.
If you understand you are not yet Perfect, it's perhaps time to come to HAND with the BRIERS AND THORNS in your own GARDEN.

Gods Will is for HIS CHILDREN to prevail therein and THEY CAN BE RAISED to understandings anytime HE SO PLEASES.

His Pleasure in this Way is EVER before our eyes and always has been.

enjoy!

s
 
Tell me Smaller, would you consider my literal approach to Revelation to be in error as I have laid it out in my "Simple Chart of the Progression of End Time Events" thread?

Remember, allegory and parable encompass the literal by Superiority.

I do not see only on the outside of the cup and The Lord will not lead HIS OWN to see that way.

even as the Revelation is unfolding before our eyes when we see past the surface.

The surface views will remain inferior by nature and will also be dangled as a distraction by the 'real parties' that are involved, yet unseen.

s
 
Tell me Smaller, would you consider my literal approach to Revelation to be in error as I have laid it out in my "Simple Chart of the Progression of End Time Events" thread?

JW, I took a quick look at your timelines. Will say in short it's all guesswork.

Will share a perspective on the term 'time' and the 'reign of the beast' at a simple level to see if you can 'expand' your sights a bit.

We know that Satan, the BEAST referenced earlier in this thread has in fact 'reigned' in the earth since the days of the Garden. That beast has not yet been killed or locked up. Sin and evil are still here 'in the earth' so to speak, that is 'our bodies.'

So firstly you should understand that the 'resistance party' is AN INTERNAL MATTER in our own temples, our BODIES. It has absolutely nothing to do with 'an external beast.'

So, the beast reigns for 42 months. In the study of numbers 7 is the number of Man's Perfection. The BEAST reigns for exactly 1/2 that time or 42 months of the 84 months in SEVEN YEARS.

When looking at scriptural numbers there can be both literal and allegorical meanings. The allegorical understanding will be SUPERIOR because it will encompass the latter.

That 42 month reign of the beast has been 'spiraling' on now since the days of Adam and all subsequent generations.

The LAST 42 months this role will be REVERSED and the destruction of Satan will come full about in reversal.

Does any of that have anything to do with 7 literal years or 42 literal months?

Uh, no.

This is just an overview on the matter of TIME.

So will stop again here to show an allegorical dissection of TIME, TIMES and a 1/2 or DIVIDING of TIME.

Satan has A TIME. He and his family have existed on earth for a very LONG time, singular. They are also depicted in the text as the 'generation' singular because their ENDING has not yet arrived.

Mankind on the other hand has TIMES. Each generation of mankind as a crop of wheat has come and gone to harvest. We have generationS plural. We have our TIMES plural.

There then is TIME.

There then is also TIMES.

the half time or the dividing is of TIME singular, and that TIME singular speaks to the cutting away of the occupants of TIME singular from US. It is the separation of TIME from TIMES.

The Great Finale. The Great Day of Wrath.

Painful as it may be.

May you find His Wisdom in all matters.

enjoy!

s
 
Sadly i deserve that :sad

I should have made it read more moderator like... Honestly my eyes are not well, that much colour makes reading hard... I can edit the post to black and white read it then cancel the edit...:thumbsup


Reba, thank you!

As [MENTION=354]smaller[/MENTION] so blatantly put it, the colors help us slower ones. Although a soft purple and yellow would probably do just as well. Put seeing I am a student I will be grateful for the time being spent by the teacher. :)
 
As @smaller so blatantly put it, the colors help us slower ones. Although a soft purple and yellow would probably do just as well. Put seeing I am a student I will be grateful for the time being spent by the teacher. :)

As a Viking fan those colors are fine, but alas, as REBA!, my yellow scale dexterity is no good. I can't even read it above.
 
my yellow scale dexterity is no good. I can't even read it above.

Yike, neither can I.

I really do appreciate all this work from you!

For me it is perpetual joy to search these matters out and to share them. Work of that sort is not work, but a pleasure in which I have the joy of indulgence.

and it get's even more interesting when the understandings meet 'real' life.

Then faith hits home.

s
 
Want to try and finish up on some of the association terms in the parables of the sower, the most elemental of parables to understand all parables.

Looked earlier in this thread at the first line of the parable given to the non-disciples. They are non-disciples 'because' they are not impelled or called in for a closer look. Those who are called in for a closer look are called By Christ into such looks. For others, they are blinded and simply have no interest:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Who in that factual equation has no interest?

If any fancy themselves a DRAGON SLAYER they must in fact get PAST the dragon above who is the CAPTOR of the slaves do they not?

A FULL GOSPEL message makes DECLARATION to BOTH PARTIES.

For example when I witness personally I tell people that God in Christ loves them without reservation, but also hates the EVIL THOUGHTS in our own minds that keeps us from LOVING.

Is the DRAGON attacked in an elemental fashion in that witness?

Yes, that is A TRUTHFUL WITNESS and one that is most often honored by God. I am not in the habit of trying to eternally burn alive the very people I'm trying to witness to. To do that is in fact quite entirely insane. Yet that form of BLIND WITNESSING goes on perpetually in Christiandom, sad as it is.

Anyway...

Here is the flavor of Luke (8) for the same parable of the sower to the blinded masses. It is not identical to Mark's, but it is close:

5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.

If the god of this world blinds the MIND where is the AIR but between our own two ears? There is where THE FOWLS FLY to steal and devour the seed of the Word.

Luke adds the term 'trodden down' in his account, thereby adding MORE FLAVOR to the matters.

Often these types of terms are recurring throughout the text and make for great scripture hunting in association terms. Obviously that 'trodden down' has nothing to do with 'external walking.'

Satan surely does TROD down all of us.

Very often I will turn first to Isaiah or Psalms/Proverbs to pick up the first combing of allegorical layering.

In Isaiah for example a very nice confirmation to these general tones is found on trodding down, and looky looky where said trodding transpires...in the 'temple.' Which in association land is not a building, but our BODY.

Isaiah 63:18
The people of thy holiness have possessed it but a little while: our adversaries have trodden down thy sanctuary.

I hope some will get the pictures and the connections here.

All those 'enemies' of Israel in the 'external sense' are really not the 'real' culprits to the matters.

Pharaoh of Egypt for example is A DRAGON ASSOCIATION term:

Ezekiel 29:3
Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.

All the accounts of Pharaoh in the O.T. really are not about Pharaoh the 'flesh man' whatsoever. Where Paul writes about God raising up PHARAOH to show His Power over same, that is, IN REALITY God raising up SATAN in order to show HIS POWER over SATAN.

We digging here yet? It will get much much deeper in this thread. So deep a hole that the ENEMIES will fall into the PIT they have dug for US.

Matthew (13) has the first line of the parable of the sower to the blinded masses as such:

4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

The 3 writers accounts in order then, Matt. Mark and Luke as follows:

4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.
5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.

Do we see fallen blinded mankind there in blue? Of course.

Was it really a harlot by the wayside here?

Genesis 38:21
Then he asked the men of that place, saying, Where is the harlot, that was openly by the way side? And they said, There was no harlot in this place.

No, it was a child of God HIDDEN by the garment of the harlot to TRAP her rightful mate. Yet the blinded 'man' of O.T. Israel could not SEE WHO IT WAS! Even though it was his own daughter in law, the widow of his own passed son. The widow to whom he had promises unfulfilled. She forced him to the table did she not? Trapped him in THE TRUTH.

I hope some will learn to savor these matters. They are so very very rich. And they are also exact showings of the PARABLEs of the sower.

Luke 18:35
And it came to pass, that as he was come nigh unto Jericho, a certain blind man sat by the way side begging:

That is your blinded neighbor....sitting by the wayside, waiting for you to share the light of HIS LOVE.

In His Love, believers heal the blinded more often than they perceive. Jesus often commanded such healed to be quiet about it. That was in part because the external healing was not all that important in the observation, but AN EXTERNAL SHOWING of A COMING INTERNAL REALITY that is REVELATION on the horizon.

enjoy!

smaller
 
Last edited by a moderator:
In order again, Matt, and Luke parable account, from the first liners in Matt and Luke, Mark having been already handled, from Jesus to the Disciples:

19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

How many are stolen from in this way?

ALL of us who have ever lived.

How many do not understand the Word of the Kingdom? Again, all of us, because why? We all hear factually only in part just as Paul saw. Knowing only in part means we are all partly NOT understanding and are in fact all PARTLY blinded, presently.

If we see we 'all' have sin and sin is in fact 'of the devil' the blinding party is still IN THE EARTH. If you do not understand this as a personal fact and principle and deny that fact to be a factual condition, such are in fact BLIND to the fact and nothing more. I'm not saying that any such saved who do not accept or understand the fact are not saved. They have merely, like all of us, been stolen from and are for all intents and purposes KEPT from speaking honestly by that thief that is not them.

Next barrage, Matt, Mark and Luke in order from Jesus to the Disciples:

5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
5 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:
6 But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.
6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.

and Jesus depictions of these same statements to His disciples:

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

At this stage of growth once it is perceived that the location of the enemy, the thief is between our own two ears in our own bodies the DIVINE DYNAMIC starts to take on entirely more interesting workings.

You see it is the SAME WORD that shines on YOU as Gods child is in fact having A DIRE EFFECT on the other party.

We are no longer 'personally' ignorant of Satan's devices. We know that the LIGHT shines also upon Satan and he assuredly doesn't care for that EXPOSURE.

This is the most fragile state of any early viewer. They are finally seeing the LIVING REALITY OF THE ALLEGORY and found out that the WHEAT and the TARE are actually growing in THE SAME GROUND, that is our MIND and BODY.

and you wonder why Christianity is such a DIVIDED MESS? HA!!! That is the DIVINE ORDER showing HIS LIVING REALITY right now, in REAL TIME!

The very things we hate and decry and try to escape are in fact DIVINE SHOWINGS in REAL TIME to this day, as we speak.

What many falsely perceive as A MESS is actually just the wheat growing up with the TARES.

You see the TARE was not the blinded person who doesn't believe. They don't see anything. You now SEE the location of the TARE.


and the struggle has only just begun....as you now will start to reconcile your entire life and your entire understandings with our EVIL ENEMIES factored into the picture.

And all this time you thought, falsely, it was just you.

From Mark and Luke:
5 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:
6 But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Understanding NOT is no longer your factual condition. You have transitioned from a completely BLINDED parable/allegory see er to a partial sighted one. Now, what will happen? Will you be OFFENDED at these personal disclosures? And if you are so offended, WHO is it really that is OFFENDED????

Or will you come to grip with your ENEMY and begin your wrestling match for HIS LIGHT with the tare? It will be the nature of the WHEAT to reach out for HIS LIGHT and to GROW...to compete for the SPACE between our own two ears and for OUR BODIES.

Every believer who comes to this place of understanding WILL FALL to temptations. Why?

Well, just where is THE TEMPTER? Why would we deny the location of same? This is not the territory of IMMUNITY we are handling, but the territory of GOOD FRUIT, the very first of which is HONESTY....

When HONESTY springs up from the ground, oh, what a pleasing sight!

ENJOY!


You are seeing the LIVING DYNAMIC of our LORD AND SAVIOR, Jesus Christ in ACTION.

smaller
 
Tell me Smaller, would you consider my literal approach to Revelation to be in error as I have laid it out in my "Simple Chart of the Progression of End Time Events" thread?

JW, I took a quick look at your timelines. Will say in short it's all guesswork.

Will share a perspective on the term 'time' and the 'reign of the beast' at a simple level to see if you can 'expand' your sights a bit.

We know that Satan, the BEAST referenced earlier in this thread has in fact 'reigned' in the earth since the days of the Garden. That beast has not yet been killed or locked up. Sin and evil are still here 'in the earth' so to speak, that is 'our bodies.'

So firstly you should understand that the 'resistance party' is AN INTERNAL MATTER in our own temples, our BODIES. It has absolutely nothing to do with 'an external beast.'

So, the beast reigns for 42 months. In the study of numbers 7 is the number of Man's Perfection. The BEAST reigns for exactly 1/2 that time or 42 months of the 84 months in SEVEN YEARS.

When looking at scriptural numbers there can be both literal and allegorical meanings. The allegorical understanding will be SUPERIOR because it will encompass the latter.

That 42 month reign of the beast has been 'spiraling' on now since the days of Adam and all subsequent generations.

The LAST 42 months this role will be REVERSED and the destruction of Satan will come full about in reversal.

Does any of that have anything to do with 7 literal years or 42 literal months?

Uh, no.

This is just an overview on the matter of TIME.

So will stop again here to show an allegorical dissection of TIME, TIMES and a 1/2 or DIVIDING of TIME.

Satan has A TIME. He and his family have existed on earth for a very LONG time, singular. They are also depicted in the text as the 'generation' singular because their ENDING has not yet arrived.

Mankind on the other hand has TIMES. Each generation of mankind as a crop of wheat has come and gone to harvest. We have generationS plural. We have our TIMES plural.

There then is TIME.

There then is also TIMES.

the half time or the dividing is of TIME singular, and that TIME singular speaks to the cutting away of the occupants of TIME singular from US. It is the separation of TIME from TIMES.

The Great Finale. The Great Day of Wrath.

Painful as it may be.

May you find His Wisdom in all matters.

enjoy!

s

Well I guess everything we say in this forum is guesswork in a way, so I find that hard to argue with, however, I do back it up quite a bit and I think my guesswork is a bit more grounded in the bible than yours. Ill show you why:

First you guess that Satan is the Beast, which is not correct. This is found here:

Rev 20:10 And the devil (Satan) that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

It seems pretty clear that Satan and the Beast are two different folks, since you cant be put somewhere that you already are.

Also you guess that the 42 months are not literal, even though God goes to great length in the Bible to make sure we understand that the 1260 days, the 42 months and the 3 1/2 times are all the same time period as seen here:

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty [and] two months.

Rev 11:3 And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Here we are shown that the 1260 days and the 42 months are the same.

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Here we have the 1260 days being shown as the same as the 3 1/2 times.

Therefore, if 1260 days equal both 42 months and 3 1/2 times, you can be pretty sure that we are speaking of a literal time period here, since there is no way this works otherwise.

The rest of your post appears to wordplay and guesswork without biblical backing so I am going to have to conclude that my guesswork is closer to the truth than what you are showing me.

Now, does this mean that there is no symbolism or allegory in the scriptures? Of course not, however, to see it ALL as nonliteral is not correct either and what I have shown in my Chart is that more of it is literal than some would have you to believe. I have backed it up pretty well too.
 
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