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Baptism of the Holy Spirit, is not at salvation

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many are confusing the initial filling of the holy spirit with the baptism of the holy spirit.
Acts 19 asks a question, "have you received the holy spirit since you believed" meaning that you can recieve power after salvation, a particular filling of the holy spirit. The verses you speak of is general power given just through salvation. This is a particular gift, that allows one to have gifts of the spirit. Some may have the gift of the spirit but not know why< This is why. Acts 19 power. I will try to link a study to this post in a minute. But this power is available at any time. Just as a man would not deny his children bread, so too God will not deny His Holy Spirit to those who need it. If your ministry is burnt out or dry, so too like evangelicalism without the holy spirit, it too can be revived.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=10QMvv1HNpDbL3-OKBzeeRdLLawQtQe12kPePhSWAIr0
 
maybe someone will agree with you post against i dunno on my part i have given plenty of scripture to back my point up as i stated 1 i have the baptism of the spirit..2. no i have never spoke in tongues .if i am to he will give me the gift...3. i have just as much power as you or the next person . my ministry is doing good.. i can only plant seeds nothing more or less . i have the same anointing as you or any other man . at this i bid you farewell on this post . these type post tend to turn ugly and i dont need any more good day
 
many are confusing the initial filling of the holy spirit with the baptism of the holy spirit.
Acts 19 asks a question, "have you received the holy spirit since you believed" meaning that you can recieve power after salvation, a particular filling of the holy spirit. The verses you speak of is general power given just through salvation. This is a particular gift, that allows one to have gifts of the spirit. Some may have the gift of the spirit but not know why< This is why. Acts 19 power. I will try to link a study to this post in a minute. But this power is available at any time. Just as a man would not deny his children bread, so too God will not deny His Holy Spirit to those who need it. If your ministry is burnt out or dry, so too like evangelicalism without the holy spirit, it too can be revived.
With respect, the Greek word 'baptizo' does mean "immerse", but the context indicates an "identification with". So, Jesus' baptism in the Jordan by John was His identification with the Father's plan for salvation. Just the same, 1 Cor 10:1-5 indicates that the Israelites were identified with moses in the sea. Note that none of them got wet. It was the Egyptians who got immersed and died.

And in 1 Pet 3:20-21, baptism is linked to the flood, but those saved were identified with Noah, and stayed dry, while the entire rest of of humanity was immersed in water and died.

Per the title of this thread, do you consider "baptism of the Holy Spirit" to be a water baptism, or a dry identification?

The article made no mention of 2 things that prevent the filling of the Holy Spirit; grieving Him (Eph 4:30) and quenching Him (1 Thess 5:19). Nor did it mention the 2 commands that result in the filling of the Holy Spirit: Eph 5:18 - be filled, and Gal 5:16 - walk by means of the Spirit, and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Without mentioning any of these 4 verses, how can there be a real conversation about the filling of the Holy Spirit?

The article began with this: "On his third missionary journey, in the city of Ephesus, Paul found himself face-to-face with a group of believers who seemed dull and dry, listless and lifeless." I'm curious as to how one would come to such a conclusion, since the text says nothing about their "state of being". Then the article tried to link Ezekiel with these disciples.

The article correctly notes that the believer is indwelt with the Holy Spirit, but isn't clear about how one is filled with the Spirit.

Then it says this: "By and large, pentecostal theology declares the baptism of the Spirit is subsequent to water baptism. On the other hand, dispensational theology generally teaches the baptism of the Spirit is inherent in water baptism. I believe that the baptism of the Spirit, ideally, is simultaneous with water baptism."

I have no idea what all pentecostal theology declares, but being one of dispensational theology, I've not come across the teaching that baptism of the Holy Spirit is inherent in water baptism. In fact, the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" is an identification of the believer with being a child of God, a possession of God, from Eph 1:13,14. "Having believed" (aorist- point in time) the believer is sealed IN HIM with the Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance for the day of redemption, as God's possession.

So there is no connection between the baptism of the Spirit and water baptism. Water baptism is an ordinance that identifies the believer with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Baptism of the Spirit is the initial indwelling of the Spirit (sealing) which identifies the believer as God's own possession.

Finally, the article completely missed the opportunity to note the importance of being in fellowship with God and Christ, from 1 John 1:9.

Unless one regularly confesses all known sins, there isn't cleansing or purifying, and there is no fellowship. As such, there can be no filling either. Confession is for fellowship, the filling of the Holy Spirit is for service, under God's power.
 
Edited

maybe someone will agree with you post against i dunno on my part i have given plenty of scripture to back my point up as i stated 1 i have the baptism of the spirit..2. no i have never spoke in tongues .if i am to he will give me the gift...3. i have just as much power as you or the next person . my ministry is doing good.. i can only plant seeds nothing more or less . i have the same anointing as you or any other man . at this i bid you farewell on this post . these type post tend to turn ugly and i dont need any more good day

im w/ ezra. good post. :)
I am literally just one begger showing another where to find bread, if one rejects the bread then that's is their own fault. My job is done. Take care, tongues is only one of many gifts, but the empowering of holy spirit is more of the fuel for the engine. But where I come from people.are saved reggularly, if you have not experienced salvation in your ministry for awhile then maybe this is one thing to persue.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
With respect, the Greek word 'baptizo' does mean "immerse", but the context indicates an "identification with". So, Jesus' baptism in the Jordan by John was His identification with the Father's plan for salvation. Just the same, 1 Cor 10:1-5 indicates that the Israelites were identified with moses in the sea. Note that none of them got wet. It was the Egyptians who got immersed and died.

And in 1 Pet 3:20-21, baptism is linked to the flood, but those saved were identified with Noah, and stayed dry, while the entire rest of of humanity was immersed in water and died.

Per the title of this thread, do you consider "baptism of the Holy Spirit" to be a water baptism, or a dry identification?


The article made no mention of 2 things that prevent the filling of the Holy Spirit; grieving Him (Eph 4:30) and quenching Him (1 Thess 5:19). Nor did it mention the 2 commands that result in the filling of the Holy Spirit: Eph 5:18 - be filled, and Gal 5:16 - walk by means of the Spirit, and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Without mentioning any of these 4 verses, how can there be a real conversation about the filling of the Holy Spirit?

The article began with this: "On his third missionary journey, in the city of Ephesus, Paul found himself face-to-face with a group of believers who seemed dull and dry, listless and lifeless." I'm curious as to how one would come to such a conclusion, since the text says nothing about their "state of being". Then the article tried to link Ezekiel with these disciples.

The article correctly notes that the believer is indwelt with the Holy Spirit, but isn't clear about how one is filled with the Spirit.

Then it says this: "By and large, pentecostal theology declares the baptism of the Spirit is subsequent to water baptism. On the other hand, dispensational theology generally teaches the baptism of the Spirit is inherent in water baptism. I believe that the baptism of the Spirit, ideally, is simultaneous with water baptism."

I have no idea what all pentecostal theology declares, but being one of dispensational theology, I've not come across the teaching that baptism of the Holy Spirit is inherent in water baptism. In fact, the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" is an identification of the believer with being a child of God, a possession of God, from Eph 1:13,14. "Having believed" (aorist- point in time) the believer is sealed IN HIM with the Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance for the day of redemption, as God's possession.

So there is no connection between the baptism of the Spirit and water baptism. Water baptism is an ordinance that identifies the believer with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Baptism of the Spirit is the initial indwelling of the Spirit (sealing) which identifies the believer as God's own possession.

Finally, the article completely missed the opportunity to note the importance of being in fellowship with God and Christ, from 1 John 1:9.

Unless one regularly confesses all known sins, there isn't cleansing or purifying, and there is no fellowship. As such, there can be no filling either. Confession is for fellowship, the filling of the Holy Spirit is for service, under God's power.
Do you even believe the gifts are for.today? If not then all this is confusion to you.
 
This thread has potential. I often make some posts about the subject and there is just silence. There are many warnings and comments when the Holy Spirit is mentioned.

Reading about John the Baptist in the last couple of months has really created an interest in discussing the subject more.
initial filling
could you supply me with the scriptures for initial filling? I am not waiting with my guns all fully loaded. Oh I have definite thoughts, but I think I need to hear your thoughts.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
dirtfarmer here


What I have come to understand about "the baptism of the Holy Spirit", is that it is salvation. It is the Spirit that witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God.
There are those that believe and teach a second work of the Holy Spirit after salvation. I don't find this in scripture.
I find in 1 Corinthians 12 is that the manifestation of the Spirit is given to all.
 
dirtfarmer here


What I have come to understand about "the baptism of the Holy Spirit", is that it is salvation. It is the Spirit that witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God.
There are those that believe and teach a second work of the Holy Spirit after salvation. I don't find this in scripture.
I find in 1 Corinthians 12 is that the manifestation of the Spirit is given to all.
Acts 1:8 KJV
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

That all people might benefit from your receiving the Holy Spirit.

Just another restatement of I Corinthians 12:7

Salvation is in the work of Jesus.
The ability to present the Gospel is through the Holy Spirit.

redneck
eddif
 
This thread has potential. I often make some posts about the subject and there is just silence. There are many warnings and comments when the Holy Spirit is mentioned.

Reading about John the Baptist in the last couple of months has really created an interest in discussing the subject more.

could you supply me with the scriptures for initial filling? I am not waiting with my guns all fully loaded. Oh I have definite thoughts, but I think I need to hear your thoughts.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
most posts about the holy spirit baptism are about the initial salvation, only a few mention rebaptism or a continual filling of the holy spirit for ministry.
 
dirtfarmer here


What I have come to understand about "the baptism of the Holy Spirit", is that it is salvation. It is the Spirit that witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God.
There are those that believe and teach a second work of the Holy Spirit after salvation. I don't find this in scripture.
I find in 1 Corinthians 12 is that the manifestation of the Spirit is given to all.
thanks for the reply, acts 19 mentions being filled after believing.
 
acts 19 mentions being filled after believing.

After believing what?
A. Jesus Christ is Lord
B. The repentance and baptism of John the Baptist
C. The shema

But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, the one who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also make alive your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 8:9-11&version=LEB

Before the Spirit lived in them, did they belong to Christ Jesus?
 
I love two or three things to establish theology:
The spoken word
The Word becoming creation
The written word
The word become flesh
The observation of word manifesting
The flesh of Jesus becoming a quickening spirit
Changed behavior
Other witnesses.
.....,.,
Christ in us
Us in Christ
John the Baptist filled from mothers womb
Holy Spirit destending on Jesus
Holy Spirit on believers
Holy Spirit baptism.
.....

My box has a bunch of things in it. The book of John is full of what is there to believe.

I am reading the comments.

Redneck
eddif
 
Do you even believe the gifts are for.today? If not then all this is confusion to you.
I critiqued the supplied article in the OP. And I explained what the Greek word really means. So, how does your question even relate to anything I posted? What gifts are being referred to? I wasn't talking about gifts, nor was your OP.

So it seems the confusion is not on my side.
 
thanks for the reply, acts 19 mentions being filled after believing.
Right. The filling of the Holy Spirit is a command (Eph 5:18). It's not continual. When a believer either grieves (Eph 4:30) or quenches (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit, they are NOT filled, and need to correct the situation.
 
After believing what?
A. Jesus Christ is Lord
B. The repentance and baptism of John the Baptist
C. The shema

But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, the one who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also make alive your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 8:9-11&version=LEB

Before the Spirit lived in them, did they belong to Christ Jesus?
After I pressed post your post was there.
Interesting.

eddif
 
Now I have to think of:
Breath one (Inhale)
Exhale
Breath two (progressive inhaling?)
Exhale two (rid carbon dioxide)

Boy y'all done started a thought process.

eddif
 
After believing what?
A. Jesus Christ is Lord
B. The repentance and baptism of John the Baptist
C. The shema

But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, the one who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also make alive your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 8:9-11&version=LEB

Before the Spirit lived in them, did they belong to Christ Jesus?
All of it, believers typified in new testament were normally those who believed in Jesus. Especially if stated in acts
 
Right. The filling of the Holy Spirit is a command (Eph 5:18). It's not continual. When a believer either grieves (Eph 4:30) or quenches (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit, they are NOT filled, and need to correct the situation.
Most of the verses you mentioned earlier were initial salvation. But this particular filling is part of the gifts of the spirit for today.
 
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