No not at all....The inclusion of CFnet is one of my favorite parts
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Baptism of the Holy Spirit, is not at salvation
- Thread starter godsquadgeek
- Start date
Sister Christian
Member
OK, thank you.No not at all....The inclusion of CFnet is one of my favorite parts
How is that helpful? How many pages back? How about providing the post # at least?
Paoli S.
Member
Statement of Faith of this forum confirms the same:
We believe that genuine believers are born again by the Holy Spirit of God, and are indwelt, baptized into the body of Christ, the true church, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
We believe that all believers need to be filled and empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a godly life and to be bold in our witness for the Lord.
Two different actions by The Holy Spirit.
We believe that genuine believers are born again by the Holy Spirit of God, and are indwelt, baptized into the body of Christ, the true church, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
We believe that all believers need to be filled and empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a godly life and to be bold in our witness for the Lord.
Two different actions by The Holy Spirit.
I've not disagreed with any of this. In fact, I've made this point many times.
You posted:
"Paul is not speaking of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. Being Born of the Spirit and being Baptized with the Spirit are two different works of grace."
I asked:
"OK, please explain the difference and use Scripture to support this difference. Thanks."
Your post doesn't explain the difference. What I got from your post is that there is the initial indwelling of the Spirit and the filling of the Holy Spirit.
I still do not understand your view on any difference between being born of the Spirit and being baptized with the Spirit. I believe they are synonymous.
ezra
Member
ezra
Member
yes but no mention of baptism of the spirit evidence of speaking in tongues imo if filled with the spirit controlled by the spirit , Ephesians 5:17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. 18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to reckless indiscretion. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. 19Speak to one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your hearts to the Lord, personally i see tongues as a gift. the gifts of the spirit are still here each one of us has a gift
Paoli S.
Member
In my opinion they are not and I have quoted scripture in my past posts.
No need to repeat myself.
Just scroll back through the thread and you will find them.
----------------------------------------------
And yes, Ezra, in the statement of faith of the forum there's no mention of speaking in tongues I did see that.
But it quotes "two different" Holy Spirit issues. The first one when one is born again and the second one at a later point.
Anyhow, we just have to agree to disagree on the issue, and I'm now finished posting on it because there's no use to go around in circles.
ezra
Member
just a discussion i agree on 2 different parts of the spirit.. baptized in the body we get the indwelling then the filling comes as we grow
I said:
"I still do not understand your view on any difference between being born of the Spirit and being baptized with the Spirit. I believe they are synonymous."
So I'll take that as an unwillingness or inability to explain the difference.
OK
"I still do not understand your view on any difference between being born of the Spirit and being baptized with the Spirit. I believe they are synonymous."
I didn't find any explanation in any of the quoted verses about any difference between the 2.
So I'll take that as an unwillingness or inability to explain the difference.
OK
I, hopefully, am about out out of the swamp.
Romans 8:9 KJV
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
I Corinthians 15:45 KJV
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Revelation 3:20 KJV
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
The above 3 scriptures do not mention the Holy Spirit as such, and have to do with salvation in Christ Jesus.
The power to convey to others this truth (in a powerful way - as sons and daughters) requires the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
If you are called into an office and chosen, then the Holy Spirit seems to choose what you receive.
I Corinthians 12:11 kjv
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
What did I post?
I will listen
Redneck
eddif
Romans 8:9 KJV
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
I Corinthians 15:45 KJV
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Revelation 3:20 KJV
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
The above 3 scriptures do not mention the Holy Spirit as such, and have to do with salvation in Christ Jesus.
The power to convey to others this truth (in a powerful way - as sons and daughters) requires the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
If you are called into an office and chosen, then the Holy Spirit seems to choose what you receive.
I Corinthians 12:11 kjv
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
What did I post?
I will listen
Redneck
eddif
dirtfarmer
Member
hello eddif, dirtfarmer here
As I have posted previously, in 1 Corinthians 12-14, you have to determine if there is a difference between " believe not" and "unbelievers and unlearned".
Since I believe that tongues were for a sign to the believing Jew the "believe not" . What we have is that they "believe not", was that God was bringing in saved Gentiles into the same relationship as the saved Jews. As a reference to this "believe not" look at Acts 10:45, the " they of the circumcision which believed were astonished". What was the cause of their astonishment? "because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost."
The posts preceding my post were about the difference in spirits. My post was directed to that subject.
Now
I Corinthians 14:22 KJV
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Acts 10:46
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
What got the believing Jews? Prophecy.
Tongues there? Yes
Hearing in their own language / interpretation? Yes
Prophecy / magnify God? Yes
It does not take jumping mentally through a lot. The believing Jews heard prophecy come from Gentiles.
eddif
I Corinthians 3:15 KJVso if your name tag is more superior than your bro or sister .your name tag will either fall off going up or burn off going down... so let us all do as jesus said strive to enter in at the straight gate
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Fire can be used to purify (burn off the dross).
I Peter 4:12 KJV
Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
Matthew 3:11 KJV
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
The rod and staff direct us.
eddif
Paoli S.
Member
dirtfarmer
Member
hello eddif, dirtfarmer here
In Acts 10:45-46 do you believe those of the "circumcision" would have believed that the Gentiles had received the Holy Spirit if they had not heard them speak with tongues? What language did the Gentiles from Caesarea speak? Was it Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, or some other language?
Acts 10:45 KJV
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter
You IMHO are asking me the wrong question. You are asking a modern traditional question.
Tongues and interpretation go hand in hand (in Acts and Corinthians). Tongues and interpretation equal prophesy. Believing circumcism party members would have been looking for the word of God. The Jewish day of Pentecost had tongues and interpretation (heard in their own language).
Acts 2:11 KJV
Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
The circumcision party had issues, but it was about the Gentiles keeping the law of Moses. The circumcism party understood tongues and interpretation. They heard Gentiles speaking in their language the mighty works of God.
For a believer to hear tongues means nothing in Acts. Modern day it has become warped. There is a true use of tongues today. How rare is it? Probably very rare in the Bible Belt.
I look for a denominational / non denominational person to speak in my language the mighty works of God.
I Peter 2:24 better be there. Tongues void of scripture means nothing. Jesus bore our sins not tongues.
Do I speak in tongues? Yes. Do I base my salvation on tongues? No. Jesus died to give eternal life (mighty work of God).
I did not answer your question with a yes or no. I did answer the issues in your question.
Backwoods redneck
eddif
Mark 7:13 KJV
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
400 years of silence in Jerusalem had allowed much tradition to develop. Jesus faced tradition.
Today Gentile groups have had longer to develop traditions themselves. We hear what the group believes through tradition. We are one new man today. Out of one new man, both Jew and Gentile truth should pour.
I have enjoyed this thread. It has helped me understand more than ever before. Before this thread began I was looking into Jesus becoming a quickening spirit. Thanks to various posters I have learned. Fire refines or consumes. Dross goes away. Every group can change.
eddif
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
400 years of silence in Jerusalem had allowed much tradition to develop. Jesus faced tradition.
Today Gentile groups have had longer to develop traditions themselves. We hear what the group believes through tradition. We are one new man today. Out of one new man, both Jew and Gentile truth should pour.
I have enjoyed this thread. It has helped me understand more than ever before. Before this thread began I was looking into Jesus becoming a quickening spirit. Thanks to various posters I have learned. Fire refines or consumes. Dross goes away. Every group can change.
eddif
dirtfarmer
Member
hello eddif, dirtfarmer here
Who interpreted the tongues(languages) spoken on the day of Pentecost? I have ask this before; Was the " miracle" on the day of Pentecost in the speaking or in the hearing? Who was it that interpreted tongues on the day of Pentecost?