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Baptism

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HeIsRisen2018

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#21
The original Greek word for baptism means immersion, or submerge. The body has to go under water. It was translated vaguely intentionally to match a doctrine. Flick water at a forehead doesn't equate to the same thing.

I'm sorry but I have to strongly disagree with you. My brother and I already had this discussion. It's not some magic water, it's what in your heart that counts. It doesn't matter what ritual you use.
 
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#22
The original Greek word for baptism means immersion, or submerge. The body has to go under water. It was translated vaguely intentionally to match a doctrine. Flick water at a forehead doesn't equate to the same thing.
The Didache (/ˈdɪdəkeɪ/ or /ˈdɪdəkiː/; Greek: Διδαχή, translit. Didakhé, lit. 'Teaching'), also known as The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, is a brief anonymous early Christian treatise, dated by most modern scholars to the first century. The first line of this treatise is "The teaching of the Lord to the Gentiles (or Nations) by the twelve apostles". The text, constitute the oldest extant written catechism (Wikipedia)

From "The Didache" (The teaching of the Twelve)
Baptism in the Didache

Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

 
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#23
The Didache (/ˈdɪdəkeɪ/ or /ˈdɪdəkiː/; Greek: Διδαχή, translit. Didakhé, lit. 'Teaching'), also known as The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, is a brief anonymous early Christian treatise, dated by most modern scholars to the first century. The first line of this treatise is "The teaching of the Lord to the Gentiles (or Nations) by the twelve apostles". The text, constitute the oldest extant written catechism (Wikipedia)

From "The Didache" (The teaching of the Twelve)
Baptism in the Didache

Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.
Do you accept all extra biblical works? I have combined volumes in print the length of three Bible's.
 
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#24
It's not some magic water, it's what in your heart that counts. It doesn't matter what ritual you use.
It's not "magic water" and it's not a"ritual."
It is exactly what Jesus commanded every Christian to do.
Mat 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey all things that I have commanded you;...

If someone is not willing to obey Jesus (and be baptized) then what's in his heart is rebellion against the will of God.

Baptism is exactly what Paul said it is.
Rom 6:3-7
... (1) all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death (2) Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that (3) as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. (4) For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly (5) we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that (6) our old self was crucified with Him, in order that (7) our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for (9) he who has died is freed from sin.

SO, In baptism:
(1) We are joined to Jesus in His death.
(2) We were buried with Jesus through the cat of baptism.
(3) We were raised to new life just like Christ was raised to new life.
(4) We were united with Christ in his death.
(5) We are like Him in His resurrection.
(6) Our old self was crucified with Christ.
(7) Our body of sin was done away with.
(8) We are no longer slaves to sin.
(9) We died and were freed from sin.

So, in Baptism, were die. are buried, and are born again to new life in Christ.

Jesus said: "...unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." (John 3:5)
That's what Baptism is.
Not "magic water", not "ritual."
Jesus' command.
 
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#26
water baptism does not save it follow salvation as a statement of being saved symbolic of the old you going into the watery grave rising up a new man . infant baptism does nothing for the Baby thus all it does is get the baby wet . it does not take a rocket scientist or a doctoral degree to understand
 

for_his_glory

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#27
Infant baptism is also unscriptural as a baby can not know faith and regeneration as this takes place at the same point in time. A baby can not be covered by the blood of Jesus until they come into the knowledge of good and evil and accept Him as Lord and Savior. Many use Ephesians 1:4, 5 to support this, but that is not what these verses are saying. These two verses are very similar to that of 2 Peter 3:9 that through Gods love he breathed his breath (spirit) into us when we first came from the womb making us a living soul and that he would want us to be holy and without blame. Staying holy without blame is through repentance and acceptance that brings us to that adoption that is in Christ Jesus thus we were made for Gods good pleasure.

Ephesians 2:8 Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus and not by works, which would make water baptism a work towards repentance. John said I must decrease and Jesus increase. Jesus never baptized with actual water even though He first came to John's water baptism as a fulfillment of prophecy and the beginning of Christ ministry as the Holy Spirit fell down on Him that day and there after Jesus baptized others with the Holy Spirit, John 3:25-34

John 3:5 never mentions the word baptize, but says only by being born of water and spirit, which means water as living water (word) that no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are Spiritually renewed (born again) by the word, which is Christ Jesus and by the Holy Spirit that came on them in the OT and indwells us in the NT. Many do read into the passage a preconceived idea or theology, but baptism is never mentioned in this verse. Word is living water as described in John 4:10; 7:38; 1John 5:6; Jeremiah 2:13; Isaiah 55:1-3 to name a few.

If salvation came by actual immersion in water Jesus clearly could have simply stated, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is baptized by being immersed in water and born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Further, if Jesus had made such a statement, He would have contradicted numerous other Bible passages that make it clear that salvation is by faith (John 3:16; John 3:36; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5).

Water baptism is only an outward appearance to others that you have been Spiritually born again, John 3:5-7 as the water can not save us, but is symbolic of being washed clean by the blood of the Lamb.
 
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#28
If someone is not willing to obey Jesus (and be baptized) then what's in his heart is rebellion against the will of God.
i can not agree with the rebellion of not baptized the thief on the cross was not baptized. i do believe in baptism but not essential to salvation
 
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#29
Infant baptism is also unscriptural as a baby can not know faith
"Believer's baptism" is unscriptural.
A baby can not be covered by the blood of Jesus until they come into the knowledge of good and evil and accept Him as Lord and Savior.
If a baby that has not come into the knowledge of good and evil cannot be covered by the blood of Jesus then, if he dies before that time, he would go to hell.
If that your belief?
If salvation came by actual immersion in water Jesus clearly could have simply stated, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is baptized by being immersed in water and born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
He did say that at john 3:5.
Water baptism is only an outward appearance to others that you have been Spiritually born again
There is absolutely nothing in the scriptures to support that view.
Jesus, who commanded that every believer be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, did not care about "outward appearances."

WHy do you not accept what Paul taught about Baptism?

Rom 6:3-7
... (1) all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death (2) Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that (3) as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. (4) For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly (5) we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that (6) our old self was crucified with Him, in order that (7) our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for (9) he who has died is freed from sin.

SO, In baptism:
(1) We are joined to Jesus in His death.
(2) We were buried with Jesus through the cat of baptism.
(3) We were raised to new life just like Christ was raised to new life.
(4) We were united with Christ in his death.
(5) We are like Him in His resurrection.
(6) Our old self was crucified with Christ.
(7) Our body of sin was done away with.
(8) We are no longer slaves to sin.
(9) We died and were freed from sin.

So, according to the Bible, in Baptism, were die. are buried, and are born again to new life in Christ. There's nothing in there about any "outward appearance."
 
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for_his_glory

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#30
It's not "magic water" and it's not a"ritual."
It is exactly what Jesus commanded every Christian to do.
Mat 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey all things that I have commanded you;...

If someone is not willing to obey Jesus (and be baptized) then what's in his heart is rebellion against the will of God.

Baptism is exactly what Paul said it is.
Rom 6:3-7
... (1) all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death (2) Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that (3) as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. (4) For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly (5) we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that (6) our old self was crucified with Him, in order that (7) our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for (9) he who has died is freed from sin.

SO, In baptism:
(1) We are joined to Jesus in His death.
(2) We were buried with Jesus through the cat of baptism.
(3) We were raised to new life just like Christ was raised to new life.
(4) We were united with Christ in his death.
(5) We are like Him in His resurrection.
(6) Our old self was crucified with Christ.
(7) Our body of sin was done away with.
(8) We are no longer slaves to sin.
(9) We died and were freed from sin.

So, in Baptism, were die. are buried, and are born again to new life in Christ.

Jesus said: "...unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." (John 3:5)
That's what Baptism is.
Not "magic water", not "ritual."
Jesus' command.
Acts 2:38,39 When we repent of our sins and ask Jesus into our hearts we are also receiving the promise of God that his Holy Spirit will come and dwell in our hearts and teach us of all things we need to learn, John 14:26. The baptism that Peter was talking about in Acts 2:38 was a Spiritual rebirth through the word of God. Some people think it is being dunked or sprinkled with water the way John the Baptist did and there is nothing wrong with that for it is an outward appearance to man that you have repented and received Jesus and the Holy Spirit into your life, Matthew 3:11, but Jesus himself never baptized with water, John 4:2, for the baptism of Jesus was for receiving the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) that helps us to know the will of the Father, 1 Thessalonians 4:1-12.
 

HeIsRisen2018

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#31
Wow Jim Parker, you really misunderstood what I was saying. I was basically saying that anybody could get sprinkled with water and declare that they are baptized, but they have to really feel it in their heart too. And For His Glory is correct in saying that being emerged in water is unnecessary. Otherwise the Bible would have stated it differently. Anyway, it should be one's own choice and although I have chosen it my pastor hasn't gotten back to me yet.
 

for_his_glory

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#32
If a baby that has not come into the knowledge of good and evil cannot be covered by the blood of Jesus then, if he dies before that time, he would go to hell.
If that your belief?
Yes and no. Look at the story of the Amalekites and their children in Deuteronomy 2:24-34. God even had the babies killed in battle as they would have also grown up to come against God and his people. It’s the same as the firstborn of the Egyptians in Exodus 11. God saved His own from being killed. This was all Gods judgment against those who come out against him. Just as today those babies that die, even though they have no knowledge of good and evil yet, are also those who will be trained to come against God.Only God knows who are His even at birth.

To be baptized for Christ shows an intention to become a true follower of Christ. John baptized with water unto repentance but as a sign of it, perhaps only a sign of their willingness to enroll themselves among John’s followers. Jesus himself did not baptize with water, but with the Spirit and Christian baptism was only instituted after the resurrection when the Lord gave the commission to his apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

This verse shows that these men had already received the Holy Spirit, but wanted to be baptized in water also as followers of Christ. So I believe both verses in Acts to be water, but not for the receiving of the Holy Spirit, but an outward appearance to others that they have repented and received the Holy Spirit already.
 
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#33
Acts 2:38,39 When we repent of our sins and ask Jesus into our hearts we are also receiving the promise of God that his Holy Spirit will come and dwell in our hearts and teach us of all things we need to learn,
That's not what Peter said at Acts 2:38-39
He said: "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
Nothing about God and the Holy Spirit "dwelling in our hearts and teaching us all things we need to learn."
It's a no-no to add to the scriptures.
 
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#34
And For His Glory is correct in saying that being emerged in water is unnecessary.
Jesus commanded it.
That makes it necessary.
Otherwise the Bible would have stated it differently.
Jesus was about as clear as it can get.
He said to make disciples and baptize them.
Mat 28:18-19: All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
I don't understand what is not clear about that command.
Anyway, it should be one's own choice
No.
It's not the individual's choice.
It Jesus' command.
We do not get to pick and choose which commands of Jesus we will obey.

Either He is our Lord and we obey Him as best we can or He is not our Lord and we can ignore His commands.
Luke 6:46 But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?
 

HeIsRisen2018

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#36
Jesus commanded it.
That makes it necessary.

Jesus was about as clear as it can get.
He said to make disciples and baptize them.
Mat 28:18-19: All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
I don't understand what is not clear about that command.

No.
It's not the individual's choice.
It Jesus' command.
We do not get to pick and choose which commands of Jesus we will obey.

Either He is our Lord and we obey Him as best we can or He is not our Lord and we can ignore His commands.
Luke 6:46 But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?
Couldn't He mean being baptized of the spirit by any chance? You can feel free to believe to whatever you want but don't be giving me a lecture about it. This wasn't even the reason why I started the thread in the first place.
 

for_his_glory

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#38
That's not what Peter said at Acts 2:38-39
He said: "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
Nothing about God and the Holy Spirit "dwelling in our hearts and teaching us all things we need to learn."
It's a no-no to add to the scriptures.
Peter did not say that it was through water that we receive the Holy Spirit in Acts10:47, 48 he was saying that others should not forbid a Gentile who wants to be immersed in water, but repentance must come first and at the same time of repenting we also receive the Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:38,39.

Mark 10:39; 16:15,16; Acts 2:38 It is Gods Spirit that was in Christ and which we are now baptized or have received as the disciples did on the day of Pentecost as when Jesus ascended into Heaven the Holy Spirit came down and fell on those who received Jesus and his word. The baptism that Jesus and Peter was talking about was a Spiritual rebirth through Gods word, not water, Luke 3:16, as Peter taught it was through repentance and accepting Jesus and his teachings is when we receive the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:36-38 we have to believe first and through confession we are given the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:44-48 The Holy Spirit already fell on the disciples while they were listening to Peter. (No water involved)
 
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#40
Couldn't He mean being baptized of the spirit by any chance?
Look at the examples in the book of Acts.
Act 8:36-39 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.

Act 10:44-48
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord
.

Act 19:3-5 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John's baptism.”** Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
**John the Baptist baptized people (Including Jesus) in the water of the Jordan River.

When the scriptures refer to being baptized in the Holy Spirit, they actually use those words. ("Baptized in the holy spirit")
At all other times, the words baptize, baptized, or baptism refer to baptism in water.
You can feel free to believe to whatever you want but don't be giving me a lecture about it.
What I believe doesn't matter.
What scripture says matters for our faith and how we live out that faith.
I was trying to be as clear as possible and to make what the scriptures say clear.
The scriptures are our standard, not our feelings or what we think.
It is important to trust what the scriptures say and it's important to check what people tell you they say against the actual scriptures.

Here's a suggestion:
Every day read two chapters of the gospels and acts. (Start with 2 chapters from Matthew and keep going until you've read through all the Gospels and Acts, 2 chapters at a time.) When you get to the end of Acts go back to Matthew and start over.
Every day read two chapters of the letters starting with Romans and going through Revelation. When you get to the end of Revelation, go back to Romans and start over.

I find that this helps me keep the New Testament fresh in my mind.

iakov the fool
 
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