Belief and Faith

[chessman]

Jesus our example who is both author and perfector of our faith.

Well said.

He walked in obedience before His Father.

Yep

Therefore we also

Yep

 

[GodsGrace]

Should clarify that repentance is more than just being sorry for our sins. If I am a thief I might be sorry for my sin when I get caught but unless I turn away from my life of thievery, I have not repented.

True!
One might just be sorry he was caught.
Repent actually does mean to turn away and go in the other direction.

 

[GodsGrace]

What about faith like a child?

I would say it's the same WIP.
For a child to have faith in a person, he does have to trust that person and know that person has his best interests at heart. A child will not have faith in a person that fails him.

Jesus does say to have faith like a child but He surely meant in someone in whom we can trust since He was speaking of God.

 

[ezra]

True!
One might just be sorry he was caught.
Repent actually does mean to turn away and go in the other direction.

this is where the apostle paul wrote Godly sorrow
2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly grief produces a repentance not to be regretted and leading to salvation, but worldly grief produces death.
(KJV)
10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

there is a difference between being sorry and sorrowful

 

[GodsGrace]

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

It takes more than just believing in Jesus. Jesus said you must believe on him that sent Jesus.

Oh. I agree 100%.
No problem!

 

[WIP]

I would say it's the same WIP.
For a child to have faith in a person, he does have to trust that person and know that person has his best interests at heart. A child will not have faith in a person that fails him.

Jesus does say to have faith like a child but He surely meant in someone in whom we can trust since He was speaking of God.

Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't a child have belief even in an abusive parent? Yet, the abusive parent may not have the child's best interest at heart but his/her own interests at heart.

 

[for_his_glory]

Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't a child have belief even in an abusive parent? Yet, the abusive parent may not have the child's best interest at heart but his/her own interests at heart.

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

A child will believe that which is taught to them by the actions (fruits whether they be good or bad) of their parents.
I had an abusive father growing up and learned from him how to hate and be angry as I believed that was a right action to take when I got mad. On the other hand I have a loving mother and believed in her love from her actions towards me as I had faith and trust in her to protect us growing up. I had belief in my father many years later that somewhere deep down he loved me, but had no faith that he did.

 

[Tessa]

Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't a child have belief even in an abusive parent? Yet, the abusive parent may not have the child's best interest at heart but his/her own interests at heart.

An abused child often blames themselves, as small children believe parents are right.
If it is sexual abuse the child will be confused and lose trust in the parent.

 

[WIP]

I'm wondering if you're looking at it from the view of a child that has grown older and then able to reflect back on his/her life and relationship with the parents. What about a young child that has not yet matured enough to make that kind of rationalization?

 

[GodsGrace]

Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't a child have belief even in an abusive parent? Yet, the abusive parent may not have the child's best interest at heart but his/her own interests at heart.

A child is helpless and NEEDS his parent.
Anyway, where would he go?
But that child does not trust nor have belief in his parent...if anything I believe he would fear him and have no respect at all for him.
Belief in a person also carries with it the idea of respect.

 

[WIP]

A child is helpless and NEEDS his parent.
Anyway, where would he go?
But that child does not trust nor have belief in his parent...if anything I believe he would fear him and have no respect at all for him.
Belief in a person also carries with it the idea of respect.

Does a 3-year old fear his/her parents?
When our daughters were that age, I could place them on an edge and tell them to jump into my arms and they wouldn't hesitate. They trusted and had faith that I would catch them.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Here is childlike faith: I believed in Santa because everyone around me told me that he comes on Christmas Eve and he brings me presents. He brought me presents every Christmas Eve.

Easter bunny, I believed in the Easter bunny because every year we dyed eggs and somehow the bunny hid those eggs and he brought easter baskets filled with goodies.

I believed because I was told and something happened as a result of my belief. I could have faith that every Christmas and Easter I'd get presents.

This is the same with God except it is for adults and it is 100% true. Faith as we know is the substance of things hoped for and evidence of of things not seen.

Faith in God leads to Belief in God. I hoped for a love like no other and the evidence pointed to Jesus. I believe Jesus is the Christ.

Lots of people have faith, but lots of people don't believe right. John 6:29

 

[Edward]

We're dancing all around it, huh? And getting pretty close too. I think what it comes down to is, belief is one thing. I believe Jesus dies on the cross as a man and rose from the dead three days later. Even the demons believe that though and they will not go to heaven.

The right scripture was posted...but was a little short, it should have had the next two verses also which explain a lot.

James 2:19
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?.../

So having faith is a little more than trust. It is acting on that trust (which the demons will not do). Abraham did. He trusted God. God had promised him his son, Issac, but now wanted him sacrificed...so Abraham must have thought that God would raise Issac back up again or something because God had promised him. So he trusted in God and acted upon his faith and set out to obey the Lord.

Yeah, faith has a lot to do with obedience. That's why faith without works is dead. What good is faith if one does not act upon it?

 

[Edward]

The Lord has helped me supernaturally quite a few times. I've posted the testimonies about them. He has utterly proven Himself to me over time. He set a pattern of last minute never late. So there's no way that I can not believe at this point...or have faith.

...and yet, I find myself praying, Lord help my unbelief... I didn't even understand how it was that I could be in unbelief and still have faith after all He has done fr me. And this is one of the things that He has been slowly teaching me lately...what it amounts to is, I am not obedient enough yet. I'm not reading His word as much as I used to. I had a routine before. Then all this upheaval, and moving to Canton, the new job...my routine has been distracted and makes me fail. He convicts me daily, because I repent daily and ask forgiveness. I am doing somewhat better of late. I get back back up and turn back towards Him and ask Him, Lord don't give up on me, here I am. Dob what you have to do. Convict me, chastise me, whatever it takes. And that is where He has taken me...towards obedience.

I asked the Lord, Lord...I've wasted so much time in my life. I'm sorry, please forgive me...Where would I be right now, Lord, if I had continued to walk with you from age 12 or 13 when I first got saved...?

And you know what He said? He said, right where you are now.
I'm still digesting that one, whew!

 

[GodsGrace]

Does a 3-year old fear his/her parents?
When our daughters were that age, I could place them on an edge and tell them to jump into my arms and they wouldn't hesitate. They trusted and had faith that I would catch them.

YOU were a good parent.
God bless you for it.

 

[WIP]

YOU were a good parent.
God bless you for it.

I'd like to think I did my best but sometimes I'm not so sure. Just trying to better understand what Jesus meant when He said that we should have child-like faith and how that differs from our adult-like faith.

 

[chessman]

He said that we should have child-like faith

Where?

 

[MarkT]

Are Belief and Faith the same?

If I believe in someone, I also have faith in them.
Faith, as in trust.

If I have faith in someone, I also believe in them.
Believe in, as trust in.

Right?

Faith has to do with instruction. If you believe in Jesus you will follow his instruction. ie. If you love me you will keep my commandments. John 14:15

 

[GodsGrace]

I'd like to think I did my best but sometimes I'm not so sure. Just trying to better understand what Jesus meant when He said that we should have child-like faith and how that differs from our adult-like faith.

I'm sure you did your best.
A child-like faith is exactly as you described..Jesus tells us to jump and we have faith enough in Him to complete the action.

Also children don't have so many questions and pull every concept apart and study it to death...which I also do. They just accept what Jesus says at face value and understand it in a simple way...adults question everything and want to know the Why and the How.

Jesus spoke simply and we should accept simply.

 

[GodsGrace]

Where?

Hi Chessman
Surely you know Mathew 18:3
So what is your point??