Belief and Faith

[JLB]

Good stuff there. I was looking for those words, but not finding them.

This is how a talk forum is supposed to work; and also Christian fellowship

 

[Bull of the Woods]

In the modern use of the words "belief" and "faith" are not the same.
Saying one believes something to be implies they don't KNOW it to be so one hundred percent. It leaves a little room for doubt or error.

"Faith" implies an absolute trust, total commitment.

But in general when the scriptures use the word "believe" they have words attached that strengthens the word in context to mean "faith". Such as "believe ON".

But the James 2:19 verse talks of demons believing the fact of who Christ is without having faith in Him or believing in Him.

 

[GodsGrace]

Not to be political, but to identify with an example. I believe in President Trump, but I do not have Faith in him or that he will make the right decision for the nation; But yes, I believe in him to the extent that he exists.

EZ, you don't believe IN President Trump,,,you just believe he's the President.

We believe IN Jesus, we don't just believe He existed at some point in time.

You know, there are different types of belief.

 

[GodsGrace]

Belief alone does not include repentance. Can one be saved without repentance?

No. You're absolutely right.
Repentance is necessary for salvation. If we're not sorry we've sinned, how could we be friends with God?

I'd also say that obedience is necessary for salvation...obedience to God's commandments. If we trust someone, we tend to obey them.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think we use biblical words in our modern everyday communication sometimes to express ourselves, without fully understanding the meaning of those words as they were expressed in the original language.

To answer your question, yes believe and faith used in our modern vernacular are primarily the same.


If we are referring to the biblical words as they were used in the original language then no.


Biblically Speaking -

Faith is a noun.

Believe is a verb.


Faith is what we receive from God when He speaks to us.


Believe is our part that we must do in order to activate the faith that we receive from God when He speaks to us.



Believe also carries the idea of obedience.

If we believe Jesus is Lord, but don’t submit to Him in obediently then we really don’t believe.

Unbelief and disobedience are the same Greek word.

Without obedience faith remains dormant and inactive; unable to produce the intended divine result.

JLB

Thanks JLB. I agree with all.
I learned that faith can be both a noun or a verb...but you've explained it very well...faith, the noun, leads to believe, the verb.
Faith does need to be put into action and it's our belief in what we have faith in that causes that action to take place.

Regarding obedience being a concept of "believing". (in the Greek).
Yes. Amen to that.

 

[GodsGrace]

To have faith in someone or something, one must rely on past experiences regarding them/it. We use evidence gathered thru whatever means to be able to have faith that our decisions regarding what we believe will be the correct & prudent choice.

In order to believe, one must have faith with one's decisions from past experiences. We utilize any & all research venues available, or should anyway, to make the prudent decision re having faith in ourselves making a decision to what our beliefs are ....... regarding ....... everything.

I look at faith as an individual's confidence with making decisions. From this confidence, we make choices to believe, trust, etc or not to believe, trust, etc.
Example - Someone wants me to trust them re performing a task. If I have never made any choice to trust anyone in this situation b4, I will not have any faith in a decision I make immediately to be the correct one. (Sure, I can say I will trust that person, but there is no faith that I will be making a prudent decision b4 I know if this person can perform said task). & if I've never had any experience knowing what tools to utilize making decisions on how to go about trusting someone with doing a task, I will not have any confidence with this choice. I would have no faith in myself re making a choice right? I could not gauge with any degree of confidence that I believe in this person to accomplish it.

So, b4 one can believe in something/someone, one must have faith they are able to have the tools to make the decision to believe in something/someone. Faith & belief go hand in hand, altho they are separate.

Great point!
Thanks for your reply.
Yes. Definitely, faith must be based on something.
If I have faith in Jesus it's because surely He has done good things for us all and we can trust Him that He will do as He promised.
Amen.

 

[WIP]

No. You're absolutely right.
Repentance is necessary for salvation. If we're not sorry we've sinned, how could we be friends with God?

I'd also say that obedience is necessary for salvation...obedience to God's commandments. If we trust someone, we tend to obey them.

Should clarify that repentance is more than just being sorry for our sins. If I am a thief I might be sorry for my sin when I get caught but unless I turn away from my life of thievery, I have not repented.

 

[WIP]

Great point!
Thanks for your reply.
Yes. Definitely, faith must be based on something.
If I have faith in Jesus it's because surely He has done good things for us all and we can trust Him that He will do as He promised.
Amen.

What about faith like a child?

 

[chessman]

Believe is our part that we must do in order to activate the faith that we receive from God when He speaks to us.

Who is the perfector of the faith we receive?

 

[JLB]

Who is the perfector of the faith we receive?

Please quote the scripture you are referring to.



JLB

 

[ezrider]

EZ, you don't believe IN President Trump,,,you just believe he's the President.

We believe IN Jesus, we don't just believe He existed at some point in time.

You know, there are different types of belief.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

It takes more than just believing in Jesus. Jesus said you must believe on him that sent Jesus.

 

[chessman]

Faith is what we receive from God when He speaks to us.

Believe is our part that we must do in order to activate the faith that we receive from God when He speaks to us.[/QUOTE]

Who is the perfector of the faith we receive?

Please quote the scripture you are referring to.

while looking-away toward the author and perfecter of the faith — Jesus— Who endured a cross for the joy being set-before Him, having disregarded the shame, and has sat- down at the right hand of the throne of God.​

Hebrews 12:2 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Hebrews 12:2&version=DLNT

 

[for_his_glory]

Does this belief of which you speak include repentance?

Yes as repentance means a change of mind that results in a change of actions. Repentance gives us that opportunity to receive a new beginning in our life as God wipes away all our past sin and remembers them no more. Repentance allows the door to be opened for Christ to come into our lives so we may receive his Holy Spirit to help guide us in our walk with the Lord and to show us a life that is pleasing to the Father.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts 26:20 But showed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

 

[for_his_glory]

Should clarify that repentance is more than just being sorry for our sins. If I am a thief I might be sorry for my sin when I get caught but unless I turn away from my life of thievery, I have not repented.

When God called me to the prison ministry many years ago one thing I use to tell the inmates. It's easy to find Jesus while you are confined, but if you do not take Jesus with you when you leave you will find yourself incarcerated again. I saw many repeat offenders come back after they were released and told me now they understand what I said about taking Jesus with them.

 

[ezra]

many while confined get jail house religion .we deal with this today many have sunday morning religion

 

[for_his_glory]

many while confined get jail house religion .we deal with this today many have sunday morning religion

There are so many different doctrines that are passed before them from various denominations and non-denominations that becomes very confusing when you have no knowledge. Believe me, have faith in what I say sounds all to familiar to them. It's the same with anyone who is truly searching, but all they get is various doctrines shoved down their throats as they are told what they need to believe or be damned if they don't.

Religion doesn't teach salvation nor the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as the Bible is not socially acceptable to the politically correct. When one is taught what salvation is through Christ alone by God's grace and what the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is being a gift from God then they will begin to believe on Christ and know that He is our faith as we trust in Him.

 

[ezra]

There are so many different doctrines that are passed before them from various denominations and non-denominations that becomes very confusing when you have no knowledge. Believe me, have faith in what I say sounds all to familiar to them. It's the same with anyone who is truly searching, but all they get is various doctrines shoved down their throats as they are told what they need to believe or be damned if they don't.

Religion doesn't teach salvation nor the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as the Bible is not socially acceptable to the politically correct. When one is taught what salvation is through Christ alone by God's grace and what the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is being a gift from God then they will begin to believe on Christ and know that He is our faith as we trust in Him.

they have that also when i say jail house religion some do it as a surface change to benefit them. the various doctrines makes me cringe .many of them are pure bunk . we have Gospel of men and then the true word

 

[for_his_glory]

they have that also when i say jail house religion some do it as a surface change to benefit them. the various doctrines makes me cringe .many of them are pure bunk . we have Gospel of men and then the true word

I was truly humbled by the faith and belief in Christ and even the Spiritual knowledge some of those inmates had, both men and women, when they would come to my two Thursday Bible classes and by the letters they wrote me. I always set a time at the end of my classes to allow them to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior and also giving them opportunity to be baptized in the Holy Spirit.

One truly has to believe first that Jesus is truly the Son of God and then by faith which is Christ Jesus they begin to grow in Him as they begin their personal relationship with Him.

 

[JLB]

Believe is our part that we must do in order to activate the faith that we receive from God when He speaks to us.

Well said.


JLB

 

[JLB]

while looking-away toward the author and perfecter of the faith — Jesus— Who endured a cross for the joy being set-before Him, having disregarded the shame, and has sat- down at the right hand of the throne of God.​

Hebrews 12:2 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Hebrews 12:2&version=DLNT

Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:1-2


For us to walk in the example of faith that Jesus modeled for us we are instructed to:

• let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us,
• let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,

That is what Paul is teaching us here.

Looking at Jesus our example who is both author and perfector of our faith.


That is what the word perfector means:

The standard by which we aspire to.


a perfector
one who has in his own person raised faith to its perfection and so set before us the highest example of faith


He walked in obedience before His Father.




JLB