What's new
  • This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.
  • Do not use Chrome Incognito when registering as it freezes the registration page.
  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses

belief

Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
1,720
Gender
Male
#1
dirtfarmer here

Is there a difference between "believing on Jesus" and "believing in Jesus"?
 

Truthfrees

Staff member
Moderator
Joined
May 24, 2017
Messages
1,064
Gender
Male
#2
dirtfarmer here

Is there a difference between "believing on Jesus" and "believing in Jesus"?
hmm - good question

to me believing on Jesus sounds more like leaning on and trusting Jesus when we face difficulties

believing in Jesus sounds like believing Jesus is who He said He is - the Son of God - Savior Redeemer
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
2,156
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#3
dirtfarmer here

Is there a difference between "believing on Jesus" and "believing in Jesus"?
That is WIDE open dirtfarmer. It is open to answer any way we want according to how we interpret 'in' or'on'.

His word is specific. Anyone who trusts in Christ for their salvation,(they understand that they are a sinner, unsaved and can't save themselves) trust in his work(dying for their sins and raising again for them) shall be saved. John 3:16,Acts 16:31.

This easy believism or wide gate stuff is rampant. The narrow path is complete and utter reliance/trust on His finished work~~~ALONE.

Not some subjective set of 'rules' or 'works'~~~IOW " I did enough to be saved, I did a great job! I repented enough( a lot more than the other guy) I did a 'fair' amount of works(certainly more than him or her.) Sure I fail, but it was good enough and I made sure to repent more than most."

THAT is easy believism. Because we can justify just about anything in our lives.

But to say, " I fail and will fail in all things and all I have is YOUR(Christ) work to rely on to save me." ~~Is a pretty big pill to swallow for us.

Faith alone in Christ alone is what saves alone.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
1,720
Gender
Male
#4
dirtfarmer here

As I see it, the demons that Jesus cast out that went into the swine believe in Jesus, but they didn't believe on Jesus. I understand to believe on Jesus is to depend on his sacrifice on the cross for salvation. An example of believing in Jesus would be Judas Iscariot. He believed in Jesus, but didn't believe on him for salvation.
 

WIP

Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
8,997
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
#5
dirtfarmer here

As I see it, the demons that Jesus cast out that went into the swine believe in Jesus, but they didn't believe on Jesus. I understand to believe on Jesus is to depend on his sacrifice on the cross for salvation. An example of believing in Jesus would be Judas Iscariot. He believed in Jesus, but didn't believe on him for salvation.
That's how I see it as well. There's a difference in believing in something and putting faith and trust in that which one believes.
 
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
4,003
Gender
Male
#6
dirtfarmer here

Is there a difference between "believing on Jesus" and "believing in Jesus"?
Muslims believe that Jesus was the al-Masih, the Arabic term for Messiah, yet do not believe in Him for their salvation.

Christians believe in Him for our salvation and that He is the Messiah of God (The Holy One).
 

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
9,016
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
#8
I say many believe the name of Jesus, but have no clue of who Jesus is and His attributes. The disciples knew him as a prophet teacher, but it wasn't until their Spiritual understanding that came that they then knew Jesus as Messiah come. The Pharisees pondered his teachings, but yet called him out as a blasphemer and a wine bibbler.

John 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
1,720
Gender
Male
#9
I say many believe the name of Jesus, but have no clue of who Jesus is and His attributes. The disciples knew him as a prophet teacher, but it wasn't until their Spiritual understanding that came that they then knew Jesus as Messiah come. The Pharisees pondered his teachings, but yet called him out as a blasphemer and a wine bibbler.

John 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

Will knowing Jesus as "Messiah" bring salvation?
 

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
9,016
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
#10
Yes, as Jesus is our salvation to all who will believe and have faith in Him. It's like anything we know is good for us, but unless we taste it first how will we know for sure.

Psalms 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
1,720
Gender
Male
#11
Yes, as Jesus is our salvation to all who will believe and have faith in Him. It's like anything we know is good for us, but unless we taste it first how will we know for sure.

Psalms 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.
hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmert here

In my opinion we, as Christians, have to be careful about calling Jesus "Messiah". I understand that Jesus is our savior and that is the meaning of messiah. The idea of an innocent, divine being who will sacrifice himself for the sin of the world and save those that believe that is purely a Christian concept.
The Hebrew word "Masheach" from the root word "Mem-shin-Chet" means to paint, smear, or anoint. is translated messiah.
The Hebrew word "Moshiah" means to help or save" and come from"Yod-Shin-Ayin" The "m" sound at the beginning of the word "Moshiah" is a common prefix used to change a verb to a noun

In the time of Jesus, the Hebrew people were looking for a political and cultural savior, not a savior from sin, they had the law. The bebrews wanted Jesus to over throw Rome rule in Jerusalem and establish "Zion" as the capital of the world. Acts 1:6 " When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore the kingdom to Israel."
 

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
9,016
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
#12
I relate using the word Messiah come as in the term of our promised Savior redeemer whom was before the foundation of the world, but yes what you have said they were looking for a Priestly King to rule over them as they would not know Jesus until it was revealed to the disciples of who he is. Messiah is a Christian concept in the sense of how we know Him to be our Lord and Savior that has redeemed us from the curse of the law.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
1,720
Gender
Male
#13
I relate using the word Messiah come as in the term of our promised Savior redeemer whom was before the foundation of the world, but yes what you have said they were looking for a Priestly King to rule over them as they would not know Jesus until it was revealed to the disciples of who he is. Messiah is a Christian concept in the sense of how we know Him to be our Lord and Savior that has redeemed us from the curse of the law.
hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

I have never read any of Paul's writings where Jesus is described as "messiah" to the Church. Paul presented Jesus as the risen Lord who was the head of the Church. He also presents the Church as his body. Messiah is a Jewish title. The law was not given to the Gentiles, it was given to the Hebrews: Romans 2:14, " For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the, these having not the law, are a law unto themselves."
 

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
9,016
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
#14
In post # 12 I am agreeing with you. However even though Paul never called Jesus Messiah, John did, but also mentioned that he was talking about Jesus.

The Jerusalem Bible
John 1:41 One of these two who became followers of Jesus after hearing what John had said was Andrew, the brother of Simon Peter. Early next morning Andrew met his brother and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" which means the Christ

John 4:25 The woman said to him, "I know that Messiah - that is, Christ - is coming; and when he comes he will tell us everything." "I who is speaking to you," said Jesus, I am he."

Messiah is a Christian concept through the English, but to the Jew the word "mashiach" does not mean "savior." The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought. Unfortunately, this Christian concept has become so deeply ingrained in the English word "messiah" that this English word can no longer be used to refer to the Jewish concept.

You can also study this further at http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm#Bible
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
1,720
Gender
Male
#15
In post # 12 I am agreeing with you. However even though Paul never called Jesus Messiah, John did, but also mentioned that he was talking about Jesus.

The Jerusalem Bible
John 1:41 One of these two who became followers of Jesus after hearing what John had said was Andrew, the brother of Simon Peter. Early next morning Andrew met his brother and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" which means the Christ

John 4:25 The woman said to him, "I know that Messiah - that is, Christ - is coming; and when he comes he will tell us everything." "I who is speaking to you," said Jesus, I am he."

Messiah is a Christian concept through the English, but to the Jew the word "mashiach" does not mean "savior." The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought. Unfortunately, this Christian concept has become so deeply ingrained in the English word "messiah" that this English word can no longer be used to refer to the Jewish concept.

You can also study this further at http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm#Bible
hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

You are correct that John 1:41 and John 4:25 the word messiah is used. But, in those scriptures it was either Jewish or Samaritan, not Pauline. You are also correct that salvation from sin has no basis in the Jewish Messiah, as they understood it. It is salvation from Roman authority.
If we "rightly divide the word of truth" and have the correct interpretation, we are heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ and we will rule and reign with Jesus over the earthly kingdom, Israel. The promise given to Abraham 430 years before the law was given is about a seed.
 

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
9,016
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
#16
Not sure what you mean by your statement, "It is salvation from Roman authority." What does Roman authority have to do with salvation through Christ?

Do we follow after Paul or after Christ! Paul, just like John were both born into a Jewish family, even though Paul was a Roman citizen. Both were called of Christ to be His Apostles and to take the teachings of Christ out into the world. Do we follow after the Pastor and what they teach or do we follow after the teachings of Christ taught through them! Just something to think about.
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Messages
2,061
Gender
Male
#17
You can believe in someone you don't know or have a real connection with. To believe on someone is to put yourself at their mercy or in a place where your life is in their hands. But that is just how I understand this.
There is, I believe, danger in assuming those phrases themselves mean what we think to everyone. To assume a person who describes their faith with small deviations from our terms is different or not really a believer or something like that is a mistake.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
1,720
Gender
Male
#18
Not sure what you mean by your statement, "It is salvation from Roman authority." What does Roman authority have to do with salvation through Christ?

Do we follow after Paul or after Christ! Paul, just like John were both born into a Jewish family, even though Paul was a Roman citizen. Both were called of Christ to be His Apostles and to take the teachings of Christ out into the world. Do we follow after the Pastor and what they teach or do we follow after the teachings of Christ taught through them! Just something to think about.
hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

The "messiah" was to the Jews a savior from Roman oppression.

What did Jesus mean when he commanded the twelve; "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans, enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Are we to believe that only the "house of Israel" can be saved?
The answer is that Christ had not yet been crucified and therefore He came only to save Israel at that point. If Israel had accepted the offer of the kingdom that Jesus presented when He rode into Jerusalem on " a colt, the foal of an ass", then there would not have been an opportunity for salvation to the world. When you don't "rightly divide the word of truth" there is confusion.

I will quote from Galatians which Paul wrote.
Galatians 2:7, " But contrarywise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter." Was Paul making a misstatement in this verse?

Saul was Paul's name before his salvation on the Damascus Road. Saul's name was changed, when he became a "follower of Christ", to Paul and it is through him that the Epistles that we are to establish church doctrine from was given. We are to be imitators of Christ with Paul as our example, not John, Peter, nor James.

As to following pastors, we are to compare everything they preach with scripture to see if it is according to scripture and if it is, then we are to follow them.
 

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
9,016
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
#19
Believing on the name of Jesus is that of believing in name only, but believing in Jesus is to know who He is as "I am".
 

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
9,016
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
#20
hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

The "messiah" was to the Jews a savior from Roman oppression.

What did Jesus mean when he commanded the twelve; "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans, enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Are we to believe that only the "house of Israel" can be saved?
The answer is that Christ had not yet been crucified and therefore He came only to save Israel at that point. If Israel had accepted the offer of the kingdom that Jesus presented when He rode into Jerusalem on " a colt, the foal of an ass", then there would not have been an opportunity for salvation to the world. When you don't "rightly divide the word of truth" there is confusion.

I will quote from Galatians which Paul wrote.
Galatians 2:7, " But contrarywise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter." Was Paul making a misstatement in this verse?

Saul was Paul's name before his salvation on the Damascus Road. Saul's name was changed, when he became a "follower of Christ", to Paul and it is through him that the Epistles that we are to establish church doctrine from was given. We are to be imitators of Christ with Paul as our example, not John, Peter, nor James.

As to following pastors, we are to compare everything they preach with scripture to see if it is according to scripture and if it is, then we are to follow them.
Do we follow the man, or the Christ that is in the man? All you have said I agree with, but what I am getting at is it is not John, Paul or our Pastor or anyone we are to follow. What we are to follow is the anointing that God has given to man to teach that of what He has already given through Christ in whom He sends out to teach us. This is rightly dividing the word that we know it is the words of Christ and not of man that we are hearing.